Faceplant at 18-mph, on the Tesla

[Smoother]

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

I've been off the forum for three months and this is what I return to?

The mighty Marty

flattened by a flaw

he neither heeded nor saw.

was it fate?

Was he late?

will he ever be able to masturb&%$ ?

 

 

 

[Unventor]

11 hours ago, Scatcat said:

That suit looks really good, might have to open my wallet.... again....

I am looking forward to the zipper imprint when you ride into something. 😁

I thing they released a model that have the zipper to the side similar to my POC.

[RockyTop]

11 minutes ago, Smoother said:

 I have been working so hard to get one of these awards.  I am always SO close ! ........... Damn my cat like reflexes!...   Maybe I am tring too hard. ......

One of these days I will be riding like a reasonable sane person and .... BAM!!!  Thats when it will happen.

[Nic]

Forensics have been on the scene...

 

 

[Smoother]

51 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

 

 

So.... How long did it take you to get "back in the saddle"?

[RockyTop]

@Smoother 

, @Rehab1 's wife made him start riding again to get him out of the house. ....   "He tends to get grumpy when he can't ride. " 

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

So.... How long did it take you to get "back in the saddle"?

I went back through my Youtube videos and after realizing the 1st post- op ride date I must concede it was very stupid of me.  Accident:1:28/18, surgery: 2/9/18, Mten3 ride:2/28/18  Nobody was aware except the forum. 

 

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

@Smoother 

, @Rehab1 's wife made him start riding again to get him out of the house. ....   "He tends to get grumpy when he can't ride. " 

Your correct Rocky my wife is actually supportive these days because I do get grouchy. The caveat is our ongoing mutual agreement:   I can’t come home if I break anything again.  No joke!  

[Smoother]

I wasn't talking about THAT saddle.  Look at your post I replied to. 

[Smoother]

So what have some of us learned?:

A true face plant throws you to the ground so quickly, you have no time to do anything.  Actually some of us have been reporting this for years but apparently not everyone was listening 

Wrist guards; essential safety gear

Elbow pads; essential safety gear

Knee pads; essential safety gear

gloves; advantageous, and beneficial in winter, but cause smart phone issues unless you get a pair with touch screen finger tips.

basic bike helmet; protected Marty in this instance so I would have to say essential (but I rarely wear one.  I may have to re visit that decision.)

Something with a chin guard; better face protection but bulky and may frighten the natives

falling off at speed hurts more and can cause injury.

look where you are going; Obviously

And most essentially; avoid any patches of ground that are a different color, especially if darker. In this case it was a pot hole of sorts but darker often means wet (slippery), ice (slippery) mud (slippery) wet leaves (slippery) Slime (slippery).  I'm serious, I went down last winter in a dark patch on a wooden boardwalk, it was a low spot, which was always wet, which caused slime/moss to grow.  Avoid dark patches, avoid any patches.

Honestly @Marty Backe riding through that obvious IED site was a real rookie mistake.  I know one can't spent every second watching the road ahead, but at least spot the patches of a different color during your scans, and avoid. 

oh BTW, glad you seem ok. hope the shoulder doesn't go full @Rehab1 on you.

ps. good job there wasn't a body of water at the bottom of that slope.

 

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

So what have some of us learned?:

A true face plant throws you to the ground so quickly, you have no time to do anything.  Actually some of us have been reporting this for years but apparently not everyone was listening 

Wrist guards; essential safety gear

Elbow pads; essential safety gear

Knee pads; essential safety gear

gloves; advantageous, and beneficial in winter, but cause smart phone issues unless you get a pair with touch screen finger tips.

basic bike helmet; protected Marty in this instance so I would have to say essential (but I rarely wear one.  I may have to re visit that decision.)

Something with a chin guard; better face protection but bulky and may frighten the natives

falling off at speed hurts more and can cause injury.

look where you are going; Obviously

And most essentially; avoid any patches of ground that are a different color, especially if darker. In this case it was a pot hole of sorts but darker often means wet (slippery), ice (slippery) mud (slippery) wet leaves (slippery) Slimy (slippery).  I'm serious, I went down last winter in a dark patch on a wooden boardwalk, it was a low spot, which was always wet, which caused slime/moss to grow.  Avoid dark patches, avoid any patches.

Honestly @Marty Backe riding through that obvious IED site was a real rookie mistake.  I know one can't spent every second watching the road ahead, but at least spot the patches of a different color during your scans, and avoid. 

oh BTW, glad you seem ok. hope the shoulder doesn't go full @Rehab1 on you.

ps. good job there wasn't a body of water at the bottom of that slope.

I've known that many types of falls will not allow you to run in any way. This was the first time I've experienced one. It's a learning experience, an experience that fortunately will allow me to continue to ride. I plan to fully learn from this event

• A better helmet - I'll probably be going to a true full-face helmet. I really don't care about scaring the natives. I think that worry is a bit overblown.
• A full upper body 'suit' with excellent shoulder protection. My existing knee pads and wrist guards are A-OK with me
• Become even more vigilant scanning the path in front of me. I have not been complacent, but clearly I can do better. This particular path is crappy and I knew it. I'll still ride it. I still don't know why I was riding it so fast (it's probably a safe 12-mph section instead of the 18+ mph that I was traveling) and not focusing more on the ground. I will do better in my future riding.

I will still ride sans protection (except for wrist guards) when tootling around town. It's a calculated risk. But when I'm going on a "I'll be back in a couple of hours honey" type ride, I'm fully gearing up. I will fall again, in a similar manner. It's just a matter of time. When it happens I'll be as prepared as one can be. Then I just have to pray to the Gotway Gods.

@YoshiSkySun had a serious fall while riding dressed like he was vacationing in Palm Springs (a local resort town) and paid the price. Afterwards he dramatically changed his riding gear and I admire his fortitude in sticking with it even when always looking like the most armored rider (and very cool BTW) among us during our group rides. I'm going to become his twin  and to hell with people that may scoff at the look.

[Rehab1]

17 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 

@YoshiSkySun had a serious fall while riding dressed like he was vacationing in Palm Springs (a local resort town) and paid the price. Afterwards he dramatically changed his riding gear and I admire his fortitude in sticking with it even when always looking like the most armored rider (and very cool BTW) among us during our group rides. I'm going to become his twin  and to hell with people that may scoff at the look.

Hold your horses!  Being  @YoshiSkySun  and I have identical armor that makes us brothers from a different mother. You sir would become a triplet. 

[Marty Backe]

57 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Hold your horses!  Being  @YoshiSkySun  and I have identical armor that makes us brothers from a different mother. You sir would become a triplet. 

Hey Dan, I'm seriously looking at either the Fox or Demon gear.

The Demon looks like it has more padding whereas the Fox gear looks like it has more hard plastic. I'm obviously most concerned about the shoulder. From your perspective, does the Fox have substantial enough padding under the shoulder plastic? Is there quality padding under all the plastic?

I haven't been able to find any information on the padding that's used in the Fox gear. Just a bunch of talk about "hard plastic".

Thanks.

[Scatcat]

@Marty Backe I personally want hard plastic on knees and wrist (like the flexmeter skid pad). For the rest I prefer the softer D3O style padding. The elbows can be either.

The difference in comfort is enormous, as the D3O flexes in any direction, and except for weight is almost unnoticeable. If you fall they really harden in microseconds making them just as good as hard plastic for protection. The only reason I want the plastic on knees and hands is for the glide factor.

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

@Marty Backe I personally want hard plastic on knees and wrist (like the flexmeter skid pad). For the rest I prefer the softer D3O style padding. The elbows can be either.

The difference in comfort is enormous, as the D3O flexes in any direction, and except for weight is almost unnoticeable. If you fall they really harden in microseconds making them just as good as hard plastic for protection. The only reason I want the plastic on knees and hands is for the glide factor.

I think I agree with you. However, I suspect it could still be useful to disperse the energy if the elbows and shoulders slid also.

Hmmm. Difficult choices.  I like the looks of the latest  Demon X2 gear, but I like the skid factor of the Fox gear.

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I think I agree with you. However, I suspect it could still be useful to disperse the energy if the elbows and shoulders slid also.

Hmmm. Difficult choices.  I like the looks of the latest  Demon X2 gear, but I like the skid factor of the Fox gear.

Yeah it might be good with plastic on the elbows too. Right now I have internal padding in my jacket, and it has worked really well in the crashes I've had. I've fallen in a way that smashed my elbows into the ground four times with this jacket - of these twice were at speed. And I have so far not come remotely close to breaking anything - touch wood.

Part of the answer I think is the combination of the flexmeters and the cushion the jacket provides. Even if I fall on my padding, there is also layers of thick fabric between me and the impact. It becomes a lot less stiff. Gliding a bit on the flexmeters as I hit the ground disperses a lot of energy too.

The last fall was by far the scariest. Not in terms of pain, as I didn't even lose any skin. When I rose I had no pain anywhere. The helmet was trashed, the skid pads had a lot of scratches, as did the knee pads. The pocket on my jeans showed exactly where my keys had been, but even those held without holes, just lighter patches. But looking at the helmet I realized that this was the first time I actually impacted on my head. It was also the highest speed impact and the most sudden. Even when the wheel cut out by overcharge, I had the alarm warning me about it, and was almost at a stand still. This time it was wham-bam-thank-you-mam, I was basically contemplating my discernment of risk-taking and my general judgement, looking at asphalt from inches away, less than a second from happily riding along. I did after all jump up on an EUC that had refused to turn on just the day before...

So I'm all for gliding! I would prefer though to do it upright, downhill, on skis, the next time.  

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Yeah it might be good with plastic on the elbows too. Right now I have internal padding in my jacket, and it has worked really well in the crashes I've had. I've fallen in a way that smashed my elbows into the ground four times with this jacket - of these twice were at speed. And I have so far not come remotely close to breaking anything - touch wood.

Part of the answer I think is the combination of the flexmeters and the cushion the jacket provides. Even if I fall on my padding, there is also layers of thick fabric between me and the impact. It becomes a lot less stiff. Gliding a bit on the flexmeters as I hit the ground disperses a lot of energy too.

The last fall was by far the scariest. Not in terms of pain, as I didn't even lose any skin. When I rose I had no pain anywhere. The helmet was trashed, the skid pads had a lot of scratches, as did the knee pads. The pocket on my jeans showed exactly where my keys had been, but even those held without holes, just lighter patches. But looking at the helmet I realized that this was the first time I actually impacted on my head. It was also the highest speed impact and the most sudden. Even when the wheel cut out by overcharge, I had the alarm warning me about it, and was almost at a stand still. This time it was wham-bam-thank-you-mam, I was basically contemplating my discernment of risk-taking and my general judgement, looking at asphalt from inches away, less than a second from happily riding along. I did after all jump up on an EUC that had refused to turn on just the day before...

So I'm all for gliding! I would prefer though to do it upright, downhill, on skis, the next time.  

Wow, you're an animal on the wheel from the looks of it  Sounds like you've had way too many crashes, but I appreciate being able to learn from your experiences.

It's actually very encouraging, because I'd like to minimize getting injured the next time I fall.

[Scatcat]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Wow, you're an animal on the wheel from the looks of it  Sounds like you've had way too many crashes, but I appreciate being able to learn from your experiences.

It's actually very encouraging, because I'd like to minimize getting injured the next time I fall.

Let's see... With the GT16:

Falling at nearly zero speed when getting an overcharge BMS cutout.
My own stupidity.
No damage, just a bit of sore pecs for a day or so.

Falling pretty fast when the wheel refused to turn because of a curb hidden in a puddle.
Just bad luck.
Almost no damage, a bit of a sore ankle and minimal abrasion on one knuckle.

Falling at medium speed, when the pedal got stuck on the curb in a turn.
My own stupidity, and a very peculiar winter-tire with strange turning attributes.
No damage except for a broken knee-pad that had to be replaced.

Falling at very low speed in a turn right after starting for the day, when I had an inexplicable BMS cutout.
This happening for the second time should probably have hinted to me that there was something very peculiar about the battery packs.
Got some abrasions just over the belt on the side I fell on, as it was a gliding fall on cobble-stones and gravel the "wrong" way. Nothing serious.

Falling at medium-low speed, when I got a puncture in the middle of a turn.
Probably combo of not noticing in time, and bad luck.
No damage whatsoever.

Falling at high speed because of bad cells and a BMS cutout.
Stupid stupid stupid, should have realized that faults that come and go can come while you ride too...
Trashed helmet, no physical damage, but of course sore muscles for a day or two.

 

So I don't know if I am an animal on the wheel or not. I tend to cruise at 32kph/20mph or so. Slower when there are bikes around me going slower. Faster if there is an open road that I already know well, but seldom faster than about 40kph/25mph.

Looking back at my crashes, I realize that three of the six are because of the V1 version of battery pack. It is not well known, but it had a bug that make the BMS a bit "touchy". That was fixed in the latter packs V2 and forward. So half of the crashes are hardware faults. My fault in this were not shelling out the money to replace the batteries.

The other three of the crashes have been in turns:
 - one stuck pedal,
 - one hidden curb pushing the wheel to the left when I tried to go right,
 - and one instance of ridiculously low pressure in the tire amplifying the turn angle and causing lost grip.

Just goes to show that while you can be as "one with the wheel" as you like, there are always unknowns...

At least I have always been well protected, so I'm still in one piece and still not afraid of the wheel.

Funnily enough (touch wood again), I have so far have had no problems with pot holes, cracks, divots, tree roots, gravel or ice. And a lot of the Gothenburg roads are full of such crap. I do hope that holds true forever....  

[Rehab1]

8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Hey Dan, I'm seriously looking at either the Fox or Demon gear.

The Demon looks like it has more padding whereas the Fox gear looks like it has more hard plastic. I'm obviously most concerned about the shoulder. From your perspective, does the Fox have substantial enough padding under the shoulder plastic? Is there quality padding under all the plastic?

I haven't been able to find any information on the padding that's used in the Fox gear. Just a bunch of talk about "hard plastic".

Thanks.

The only way to truly test protective gear is to Test it. Finding quantifiable impact /shock absorbing data on any of this gear is sketchy. Now if we had access to a crash dummy (have at it @Hunka Hunka Burning Love ) we would be better served. 

As for hidden potholes this might be a solution.

 

[Unventor]

55 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Funnily enough (touch wood again), I have so far have had no problems with pot holes, cracks, divots, tree roots, gravel or ice. And a lot of the Gothenburg roads are full of such crap. I do hope that holds true forever....  

Well I think you should praise Gothenburg city for keeping you on your toes and constant alert status. 

I blame my city for having too perfect cycle lanes and the the occasional pot hole out of the blue 🤪 they do this to trap me (joke off)

Well once you get your big wheel then you might start to think pot holes are easy...beware I can only say sometime things can catch you by surprise like my bridge bump this September...

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

Let's see... With the GT16:

Falling at nearly zero speed when getting an overcharge BMS cutout.
My own stupidity.
No damage, just a bit of sore pecs for a day or so.

Falling pretty fast when the wheel refused to turn because of a curb hidden in a puddle.
Just bad luck.
Almost no damage, a bit of a sore ankle and minimal abrasion on one knuckle.

Falling at medium speed, when the pedal got stuck on the curb in a turn.
My own stupidity, and a very peculiar winter-tire with strange turning attributes.
No damage except for a broken knee-pad that had to be replaced.

Falling at very low speed in a turn right after starting for the day, when I had an inexplicable BMS cutout.
This happening for the second time should probably have hinted to me that there was something very peculiar about the battery packs.
Got some abrasions just over the belt on the side I fell on, as it was a gliding fall on cobble-stones and gravel the "wrong" way. Nothing serious.

Falling at medium-low speed, when I got a puncture in the middle of a turn.
Probably combo of not noticing in time, and bad luck.
No damage whatsoever.

Falling at high speed because of bad cells and a BMS cutout.
Stupid stupid stupid, should have realized that faults that come and go can come while you ride too...
Trashed helmet, no physical damage, but of course sore muscles for a day or two.

 

So I don't know if I am an animal on the wheel or not. I tend to cruise at 32kph/20mph or so. Slower when there are bikes around me going slower. Faster if there is an open road that I already know well, but seldom faster than about 40kph/25mph.

Looking back at my crashes, I realize that three of the six are because of the V1 version of battery pack. It is not well known, but it had a bug that make the BMS a bit "touchy". That was fixed in the latter packs V2 and forward. So half of the crashes are hardware faults. My fault in this were not shelling out the money to replace the batteries.

The other three of the crashes have been in turns:
 - one stuck pedal,
 - one hidden curb pushing the wheel to the left when I tried to go right,
 - and one instance of ridiculously low pressure in the tire amplifying the turn angle and causing lost grip.

Just goes to show that while you can be as "one with the wheel" as you like, there are always unknowns...

At least I have always been well protected, so I'm still in one piece and still not afraid of the wheel.

Funnily enough (touch wood again), I have so far have had no problems with pot holes, cracks, divots, tree roots, gravel or ice. And a lot of the Gothenburg roads are full of such crap. I do hope that holds true forever....  

Wow!  The GT16 BMS is that bad?  I’ve gotten many overvoltages on my KS wheels but never where they just cut out due to over voltage.  I heard about they charging short circuit because of shitty wiring.  I think the caution with the nothing over 5 amps comes from.  

[eddiemoy]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I think I agree with you. However, I suspect it could still be useful to disperse the energy if the elbows and shoulders slid also.

Hmmm. Difficult choices.  I like the looks of the latest  Demon X2 gear, but I like the skid factor of the Fox gear.

Marty, not to confuse you by giving you more choices, but I find revzilla.com to be a good source of protection equipment.  They have a lot of little videos for most of their equipment.  That’s where I buy all my moto gear from.  They have some fashionable stuff too.  

The hard shell is for abrasion resistance for sliding, where as the softer padding is for impact absorption/dissipation.  

Yeh, when you get started on buying this stuff it is almost like your helmet and wheel collection. It just grows. 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

 Now if we had access to a crash dummy (have at it @Hunka Hunka Burning Love ) we would be better served. 

 

I don't do crashes...much.. the dummy part I got covered...

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Marty, not to confuse you by giving you more choices, but I find revzilla.com to be a good source of protection equipment.  They have a lot of little videos for most of their equipment.  That’s where I buy all my moto gear from.  They have some fashionable stuff too.  

The hard shell is for abrasion resistance for sliding, where as the softer padding is for impact absorption/dissipation.  

Yeh, when you get started on buying this stuff it is almost like your helmet and wheel collection. It just grows. 

Thanks Eddie. Yeah, I"m very familiar with Revzillia . Love their helmet videos. They were a less satisfactory regarding armor. 

Since @Rehab1 punted on my Fox questions I'm assuming that their gear has inferior padding. I leaning more strongly towards the Demon stuff now. The padding quality and coverage seems superior.

Like you say, my collection will probably grow/change with time. Maybe I'll try the Fox gear too at some point.

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Wow!  The GT16 BMS is that bad?  I’ve gotten many overvoltages on my KS wheels but never where they just cut out due to over voltage.  I heard about they charging short circuit because of shitty wiring.  I think the caution with the nothing over 5 amps comes from.  

I saw a local rider crash his Gotway wheel because of an over-voltage (going down a long hill at the beginning of our ride). In his case he wasn't prepared for the sudden severe tilt-back. The wheel certainly didn't cutout. I've also experienced the over-voltage tilt-back.

The GT16 certainly seems inferior in this regards.