Faceplant at 18-mph, on the Tesla

[Jon Stern]

I hope you recover quickly @Marty Backe!

I echo the sentiment that it's scary for us noobs hearing about pros like you taking a tumble.

I actually think your accident was Gotway’s way of getting back at you for all the nasty things you said about the Nikola. Check for a remote gyro disable switch on your Tesla! 😜

[Scatcat]

@Marty Backe Sorry to hear you had to experience that, but happy it seems there's no truly serious damage. I hope none will pop up in the coming days.

Your description of the feeling sounds almost like my fall on the GT16 when the batteries turned off. The instant jack-knife effect, where you're halfway down to the ground before you even realize you're falling - zero chance to run it off, all over in fractions of a second. Even the speed was almost the same.

I'm happy that the damage to your elbow wasn't worse considering you had no pads on, your jacket probably saved you big time. Your weight training probably saved your shoulders from a lot worse damage. Expect to be seriously sore for some time.

Maybe we'll see the Backe 2.0 gear coming up, with some protection for your chin, and more substantial stuff for the rest. The flexmeters seems to have done their job though. I think the sole reason I have walked away from every incident so far, has a lot to do with those. No stiff impact, you slide a little and so you save your shoulders. You just have to remember to get your fingers up, so that the skid pads are what takes the abrasion. Some of your gear seems a bit worse for the wear, but at least they did their job.

I hope you heal up fast. We need our Backe up running with his crazy amount of wheels, his overheat hill and his way of making us all jealous of the Cali climate.

[Meng Yang]

4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

That divot looked like a 2-3 inch drop in the pavement that was a bit hidden so hitting it with any wheel going at 20 mph likely would not have ended well.  Someone should be taking some fluorescent spray paint and marking off these dangerous spots to fixed.

Same goes for any significant hump or unforseen rise in height. Going over it unsuspected will lift one's feet off the pedals in an unbalanced manner - a potential recipe for being thrown off. I've had my fair share of such near misses. So far, I've been lucky to catch it back last minute. But someday my luck will run out. All I can do is try to be slow on unfamiliar routes and leave the heroic "DDDDD" speed blasts only on routes that have been done to death.

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Well said, whole-heartedly agree~ (damn, might give the POC Artic Spin another try, try to cutout the parts that were pressing on my head,... liked the overall idea of it...)

That crash of Marty's is why I use my POC Jacket. I don't know if it had saved me in a similar situation.

But if you ride with a scare you are going to crash. riding with respect, you have a good chance to avoid situations, riding with no respect of speed and situations around you then you are more than likely to end up bad. So my POC Jacket put me in the zone of respect, and relative safe in in mind. Yes it is an extra item to put on, but it goes really fast. I have posted this before, but here you see it again. (se below)

In Marty's case, this "jacket" has both shoulder and elbow D30 pads and it might not cover much but it also have 2 slim lines on the back going like / \ over the shoulder blades on the back. I just wish it was easier to wash. I use this 90% of the times I use my wheel. The only time I don't use it are for those less than 500 meter ride to my garage or take away lunch. these rides are done at max 15 kmh. 

Note: I do think that POC jacket is part reason why I were able to keep my "cool" to ride of those 2 lines of bridge under sunk asphalt this summer. You see it in my thread of my accident and feeling alive. The other major part here is the 18" and more powerful motor and heaver build of the KS18L (my Inmotion V8 would not have made that bridge at that speed)

[Scatcat]

32 minutes ago, Unventor said:

That crash of Marty's is why I use my POC Jacket. I don't know if it had saved me in a similar situation.

But if you ride with a scare you are going to crash. riding with respect, you have a good chance to avoid situations, riding with no respect of speed and situations around you then you are more than likely to end up bad. So my POC Jacket put me in the zone of respect, and relative safe in in mind. Yes it is an extra item to put on, but it goes really fast. I have posted this before, but here you see it again. (se below)

In Marty's case, this "jacket" has both shoulder and elbow D30 pads and it might not cover much but it also have 2 slim lines on the back going like / \ over the shoulder blades on the back. I just wish it was easier to wash. I use this 90% of the times I use my wheel. The only time I don't use it are for those less than 500 meter ride to my garage or take away lunch. these rides are done at max 15 kmh. 

Note: I do think that POC jacket is part reason why I were able to keep my "cool" to ride of those 2 lines of bridge under sunk asphalt this summer. You see it in my thread of my accident and feeling alive. The other major part here is the 18" and more powerful motor and heaver build of the KS18L (my Inmotion V8 would not have made that bridge at that speed)

POC is good stuff. The jacket, for some reason, is slightly "off" in fit to me. But their stuff overall is totally awesome. The elbow pads especially sits very snugly, without feeling restrictive.

[Nic]

Some gloves would have helped a lot.

[Scatcat]

23 minutes ago, Nic said:

Some gloves would have helped a lot.

Yeah. Problem is to find gloves good enough that are compatible with the flexmeters.

[Nic]

Any gloves are better than no gloves. I wear cycling gloves.

[Rehab1]

10 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

It brought back memories for me as well. I would not wish this type of accident on anyone.

@Marty Backe how is your shoulder today?  The shoulder and rotator cuff are an amazing piece of anatomy with all of the range of motion that can be achieved but due to the joint’s complexity if doesn’t take much of an impact to damage the site. If you decide to see a physician just remember an X-ray will not reveal any soft tissue injuries/ tears. Only an MRI will produce a quantifiable, evidence based image to access any damage. Unfortunately since MRIs are expensive you are at the mercy of the insurance gatekeepers. 

10 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

That divot looked like a 2-3 inch drop in the pavement that was a bit hidden so hitting it with any wheel going at 20 mph likely would not have ended well.  Someone should be taking some fluorescent spray paint and marking off these dangerous spots to fixed.

 

10 hours ago, EUCMania said:

Divots....potholes...any irregularities in the pavement that can cause a significant loss of control is dangerous. Seeing @Marty Backe‘s pothole brought back vivid memories.  I conclude that size doesn’t matter except for bragging rights! 

 

 

 

[Scatcat]

7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

 I conclude that size doesn’t matter except for bragging rights! 

It's not the size, it's how you hit it...  

[Scatcat]

45 minutes ago, Nic said:

Any gloves are better than no gloves. I wear cycling gloves.

So do I, and they help some off course. But what I would like is gloves with some form of knuckle protection.

[Nic]

19 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

So do I, and they help some off course. But what I would like is gloves with some form of knuckle protection.

You mean like motorcycle gloves ... possibly too bulky for wrist guards ...

[winterwheel]

10 hours ago, EUCMania said:

The divot does not seem, from the video, that bad. I guess 16" wheels or Tesla in particular is bad at handling these divots. I wonder whether 18" wheels can handle it better. 

The problem generally comes when the wheel goes offline (i.e. twists a bit) because of how it hits the divot. A bigger wheel would make no difference; it only means the divot that takes it down might have to be a bit larger.

I'm finding that poorly maintained paved paths are the most hazardous places to ride. On gravel paths you drive slower and more cautiously, while newer paved paths are smooth and awesome. But older paved paths let you get some speed, relax a bit, and then a crack or a (series of) buckled ridges(s) or rough area takes you down because you are travelling too fast to recover when the wheel goes sideways.

I wonder if its something we winter city people are more aware of since winter is super damaging to roads and bike paths alike.

[The Man of Mead]

Thought I would share my faceplant experience, as I came off my Tesla in similar circumstances to Marty. The irony of my fall was that I was rushing to get off a road as I hate riding on roads where cars are also present. My hurry was literally my downfall.

 

I hit what I like to call a NASA road bump. I call them NASA bumps as they are the ones that launch you unexpectedly upwards ‘into space’.

 

I’m sure many of us have been there, you rise maybe only an inch or two up from the footplates, but at around 20mph you know when you come back down you have got a big decision to make. That decision has to be made in maybe less than half as second. It’s the do I try to ride it out, fail and have a very bad faceplant or do I accept I’m going down and have the ‘luxury’ of a partial step on the way down. There’s also the do I try and get a tad of braking in to reduce the fall speed, but this is balanced up with the risk of not getting a final step in to help with an element of breaking the fall.

 

To this day I’m still not certain of the exact process of the fall but I opted for the left foot lead step, this was followed by deep gashing of left knee, and bad cutting up of left elbow, badly scraped hip. Remarkably I had my iphone in my right hand, and it remained there intact and undamaged throughout the whole episode.

 

Was I wearing any safety gear? No. Am I stupid not to do so? Yes, absolutely. By very good fortune, despite it being a September day here in the uk, it was really very cold, so I had multiple layers of thick clothing on top. As I was out on a long ride I had my small carry backpack on. I believe this helped save me from a lot more pain and damage…

 

As my fall continued I must have flipped flat onto my back. I still have etched in my memory the sound of jumper ripping and tearing and I ground to a halt skidding flat on my back along the rough tarmac. Simultaneous to listening the disconcerting scraping was the dawning in my mind that my fall had been partially cushioned by the backpack and I was sliding to a halt lubricated by the backpack containing a fast charger, water bottle and more spare clothing. I’m talking about those thoughts that all happen within around 1 to 2 seconds in the moment and its kind of fascinating looking back now and thinking just how much you can think and contemplate during those moments in time.

 

It felt like my slide went on forever. It still tickles me now that my first thought on grinding to a halt was along the lines of ‘that went well’ and ‘I think I’ve got away with this one’.

 

Trust me when I say you don’t lie around in the road for any longer than you need to when your mind clears and you realise there could be a vehicle along to finish you off any moment. I got to my feet. This is when you start to appreciate you haven’t quite ‘got away with it’ as you first thought. The pain kicks in as does the realisation Mr Tesla is sat beeping contentedly in the middle of the oncoming lane of traffic. Time for fast moving and see the damage to my Tesla. No damage at all. Quick power off and back on and it’s fine. It needed to be as I’m now around 35 miles from home and getting back on and riding is the only real option.

 

Having to get back on immediately is a good thing with hindsight, I think if I hadn’t at the time I may have been more concerned about a remount at a later date. The ride home is ample opportunity to lament your failings, and to truly appreciate the smooth transition from adrenalin to pain and ultimately to regret.

 

This fall was the worst of my spills in the 4000 or so miles I have travelled on my Tesla. All 3 of my falls have been the result of potholes/divots/bumps – call them what you will. And all 3 have been as a result of not seeing the pothole due to looking at or concentrating on other things (it’s just not possible to monitor the quality of the upcoming path 100% of the time is it). The first two were at the limits of “run off” speed and were at around 11-13mph. Trust me when I say you do not want to go down at around 20mph as I did in this fall. I was very fortunate indeed not to suffer much more significant injury.

 

Balanced on one wheel, we are always only a second from disaster. Happy riding everyone, and please be careful and wear appropriate protective gear.

 

Marty, I really hope you are ok man and wish you a speedy recovery. It’s truly a shame that in your country you have to think twice about seeking medical help. Watched your video of the crash aftermath and my first thought based on your description was that you have cracked/broken a collarbone. Hope I’m wrong. Thanks for all the videos you post on your channel, Peace.

[Unventor]

5 hours ago, Scatcat said:

POC is good stuff. The jacket, for some reason, is slightly "off" in fit to me. But their stuff overall is totally awesome. The elbow pads especially sits very snugly, without feeling restrictive.

My upper arms are not long enough, but I bend my elbow and then lock the elbow pad by fighting the Velcro strike on the arm. This prevents it from sliding down. Then I wear my Flexmeter over top and this fits just right up to the elbow pad. As seen here. The POC jacket is on top a running t-shirt, the the outer MC jacket over the POC.

Note: it is the POC breast d30 plate that make me look fat....I think or convince myself at least.

[meepmeepmayer]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Seeing @Marty Backe‘s pothole brought back vivid memories.  I conclude that size doesn’t matter except for bragging rights! 

Actually, comparing his  and your injuries, I would say size did very much matter. Or was it just good or bad luck?

[LanghamP]

There's a lot of similarity to hitting a divot and being hit by a driver; while personal protection equipment will help especially at the lower speeds, the better situation is not crashing in the first place. My observation is that if a rider hits the ground then he always gets injured.

My opinion is that talking about equipment for crashes is misplaced. I even suspect the more equipment a rider wears the more likely he is to crash, and have that crash at higher speeds.

This doesn't mean wearing full on motorcycle gear and ripping around at 30 mph is inappropriate. In fact, I think it's a highly appropriate and legal way to have fun in your neighborhood with the most minor of environmental costs.

However, for the sake simply avoiding crashes, equipment emphasis is wrong. Instead, we should be asking how to avoid such crashes in the first place.

So for @Marty BackeBacke divot crash, we should be figuring out how to avoid the divot, or failing that how to jump or otherwise go over said divot safely.

In my opinion, 14 and 16 inchers shouldn't be ridden by most people unless you need something last mile at a very slow speed (12 mph?). While I'm a huge fan of 14 inchers, I also think anything less than 18 inches is trouble.

Go to your local bike shop and ride a 16 or 20 inch wheeled bicycle. It feels ridiculously dangerous. That is the big wheel size on our EUCs.

So, bigger wheels and a systematic form of rider training. Not rider training to go slow, mind you, but rather "do this when that happens, and here is how to train for that."

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, winterwheel said:

The problem generally comes when the wheel goes offline (i.e. twists a bit) because of how it hits the divot. A bigger wheel would make no difference; it only means the divot that takes it down might have to be a bit larger.

I'm finding that poorly maintained paved paths are the most hazardous places to ride. On gravel paths you drive slower and more cautiously, while newer paved paths are smooth and awesome. But older paved paths let you get some speed, relax a bit, and then a crack or a (series of) buckled ridges(s) or rough area takes you down because you are travelling too fast to recover when the wheel goes sideways.

I wonder if its something we winter city people are more aware of since winter is super damaging to roads and bike paths alike.

I still remember the sensation of hitting the hole. The wheel twisted for sure. If I had hit it more centered I probably would have survived without being thrown.

I was riding on a barely used side trail where the asphalt is crappy and hasn't been touched in probably 20-years. I've ridden it many times, but this day I think I was riding it a bit faster than normal and obviously not paying enough attention to the ground. Lessons learned.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

There's a lot of similarity to hitting a divot and being hit by a driver; while personal protection equipment will help especially at the lower speeds, the better situation is not crashing in the first place. My observation is that if a rider hits the ground then he always gets injured.

My opinion is that talking about equipment for crashes is misplaced. I even suspect the more equipment a rider wears the more likely he is to crash, and have that crash at higher speeds.

This doesn't mean wearing full on motorcycle gear and ripping around at 30 mph is inappropriate. In fact, I think it's a highly appropriate and legal way to have fun in your neighborhood with the most minor of environmental costs.

However, for the sake simply avoiding crashes, equipment emphasis is wrong. Instead, we should be asking how to avoid such crashes in the first place.

So for @Marty BackeBacke divot crash, we should be figuring out how to avoid the divot, or failing that how to jump or otherwise go over said divot safely.

In my opinion, 14 and 16 inchers shouldn't be ridden by most people unless you need something last mile at a very slow speed (12 mph?). While I'm a huge fan of 14 inchers, I also think anything less than 18 inches is trouble.

Go to your local bike shop and ride a 16 or 20 inch wheeled bicycle. It feels ridiculously dangerous. That is the big wheel size on our EUCs.

So, bigger wheels and a systematic form of rider training. Not rider training to go slow, mind you, but rather "do this when that happens, and here is how to train for that."

I think a big part of my divot fall was the fact that the hit was unexpected. I think if I saw the divot before I hit it, I would had braced myself, including squeezing the shell a bit. But it my case it blindsided me.

I'm usually very focused on the path in front of me. But realistically, when you ride thousands of miles, some of those miles will not be covered by the eyes. All I can do is strive to be more attentive.

[houseofjob]

Yup, I agree with @LanghamP. 

 

The majority of riders here are in love with small, lightweight compact wheels, but this is the antithesis of what you need for unseen bumps / bad roads.

IMHO there's room to go even bigger than the current king of EUC sizing in the 22" Monster.

 

If you must go small (and I consider 16" still small), the tires should be at least 2.5" wide to have an adequate chance of saving oneself hitting a bump at speed (broader tire contact base giving you more time and surface area upon which to self-correct).

Small & thin wheels on unseen bumps is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

And the only reason why so many OG EUC's sport thin 2.125" tires, I believe, was because they were using repurposed tires from childrens' BMX bicycles and scooter/vespa front tires, not to mention OG EUC's only went 15-20kph max, later 25kph.

The concept of thin tires in the non-electric, manual pedal bicycle world is apparently that the thinness has less drag to wind, and that thinner tires can be pumped up to higher PSI, creating less rolling resistance. But these effects all become negligible, even detrimental, for today's EUC's, considering there is no manual pedaling, and the motors are the most powerful amongst PEV, second only to dual 1kW+ nom motor ekick scooters.

Now that we have EUC's approaching 60-70kph, the tire widths really need to get wider to adjust IMHO.

 

All / both my recent falls happened only on my current thinnest & smallest 14" x 2.125" tire MCM5.

Otherwise, I've encountered many an unforeseen bump on my wider wheels (Z10 the most, some on KS18S & V10F) and have been able to save them all due to the wider tires combined with my wider stance and offset weight emphasis (right toe/left heel and vice-versa). One of the Z10 bumps was pretty bad and deep too (during night, low visibility), even I was amazed I could save that one.

 

This is a big reason why I'm lobbying any manufacturer rep that chimes in here to make the smaller EUC's much much wider, like my dream of an InMotion V5 successor with 14" x 3" tire (3" wides are common tire sizings for 14" & 16")

Heck, ... the approx 11" x 6" Vega tire is what FutureMotion has based their OneWheel business on,... just 1" bigger but twice the width of the 10" x 2.75" MTen3 tire!

[Marty Backe]

10 hours ago, Scatcat said:

@Marty Backe Sorry to hear you had to experience that, but happy it seems there's no truly serious damage. I hope none will pop up in the coming days.

Your description of the feeling sounds almost like my fall on the GT16 when the batteries turned off. The instant jack-knife effect, where you're halfway down to the ground before you even realize you're falling - zero chance to run it off, all over in fractions of a second. Even the speed was almost the same.

I'm happy that the damage to your elbow wasn't worse considering you had no pads on, your jacket probably saved you big time. Your weight training probably saved your shoulders from a lot worse damage. Expect to be seriously sore for some time.

Maybe we'll see the Backe 2.0 gear coming up, with some protection for your chin, and more substantial stuff for the rest. The flexmeters seems to have done their job though. I think the sole reason I have walked away from every incident so far, has a lot to do with those. No stiff impact, you slide a little and so you save your shoulders. You just have to remember to get your fingers up, so that the skid pads are what takes the abrasion. Some of your gear seems a bit worse for the wear, but at least they did their job.

I hope you heal up fast. We need our Backe up running with his crazy amount of wheels, his overheat hill and his way of making us all jealous of the Cali climate.

Thanks!

I think the Flexmeters really did there job. I'm OK still not wearing gloves. In the grand scheme, I only got a couple very small areas of bad road rash on my fingers. I can live with that.

I suspect you're going to see me wearing more body armor. Not all the time, but during my dedicated rides I'm going to add some shoulder protection. There's nothing like having a bad fall to personally learn what kind of protection you really need.

I now know that elbow pads really do come into play, and shoulder protection too. There's no perfection solution, but you can always better your odds.

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

It brought back memories for me as well. I would not wish this type of accident on anyone.

@Marty Backe how is your shoulder today?  The shoulder and rotator cuff are an amazing piece of anatomy with all of the range of motion that can be achieved but due to the joint’s complexity if doesn’t take much of an impact to damage the site. If you decide to see a physician just remember an X-ray will not reveal any soft tissue injuries/ tears. Only an MRI will produce a quantifiable, evidence based image to access any damage. Unfortunately since MRIs are expensive you are at the mercy of the insurance gatekeepers. 

Divots....potholes...any irregularities in the pavement that can cause a significant loss of control is dangerous. Seeing @Marty Backe‘s pothole brought back vivid memories.  I conclude that size doesn’t matter except for bragging rights! 

My arm is showing bruising now and my upper arm and shoulder is swollen. Assisted range of motion is good with no sharp pains, so I'm optimistic. I can't effectively use the arm except to type and such. Major stiffness in my neck and other parts of the body. Amazing.

Still undecided about the doctor - I know, I know.

Divots and such aren't bad when you know you're going to hit them. But like you, I didn't see mine, so I was blind sided. My legs were loose, etc.

Our safety is all about situational awareness. But it's hard to be vigilant 100-percent of the time. That's where luck comes into play.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Geez Marty - you're hardcore.  You got some unused sick leave benefits about to expire, and the only way to make use of it is to go flying off one of your wheels!    I hope you don't have any dental benefits expiring soon.  Put that chocolate bar down this instant!  

Just do as Mr. Bean does!

[winterwheel]

Another thing that would be really helpful is larger pedals.

On occasion the wheel hits a hole or obstacle or something and you lose contact with the wheel briefly; when you land again on the pedals your feet can be either forward or behind where they were before you took off. With feet already hanging off the ends of the pedals, this can be enough so that you can't recover. I had one crash like this; hit an unseen root, landed on the wheel with my left foot way off the front pedal, wobbled for another ten metres or so before another bump took me down. Had the pedals been even just a bit bigger I would been able to maintain control.

It would be nice to see an aftermarket where one could pick up pedals appropriately sized for one's feet.

[Unventor]

Just a heads up if you are on the test list of KS18XL...remember that it feels safe, but an unexpected pot hole will still hit you hard.  I do hope you get to compare this with your MSX despite I have an idea what you prefer 😉