Opinion on 14 inch wheels?

[RayRay]

9 hours ago, Marcglider said:

I have a 14D also and never had a wobble problem with it... but just general physics yes, bigger wheel is more stable, wants to go straight and harder to turn at speed... I still think 16" is the best all around size for everything...

I think weight and center of gravity have a lot to do with it as also. Going from 840W (14C) to 420W (14D) made a big difference in stability. Then I went back to 840W (16S) and it felt stable and natural. Although, the first time I tried to turn I fell (so embarrassing). 

Edited October 4, 2018 by RayRay
I wobbled

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Out of all my wheels, the 18-inch ones are more susceptible to wobbles than the larger and smaller wheels. That's been my experience although I haven't rigorously studied it. 

I don't know how one can study with wobbles without getting bit.

Here's what I know (I don't mess around with wobbles anymore).

If you sit or squat on a wheel of any size, they wobble but the smaller wheels wobble faster, so I suspect most wobbles are rider-induced that above reason.

I'm not sure if there is any recourse to a wobble going bad (they all wobble a tiny bit regardless of what you do) except to immediately straighten your legs and throw your wheel as far in front of you as possible, as quick as you can, or else the wheel just chucks you. I think the reason that works is that it increases the rake of the "fork" (your legs) while momentarily reducing most forces on the wheel, as a  chucked wheel instantly stops wobbling. Note this is the exact opposite of what happens when you brake on a motorcycle (reducing the rake), so similar phenomenas require opposite actions.

You look at a rider like Chooch as he never wobbles so likely the way not to get wobbles is to simply ride an awful lot. I know that sounds ridiculous but if wobbles are truly rider-induced then that's a legitimate answer.

[Hsiang]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:39 AM, houseofjob said:

Having owned wheels of all sizes (10-22" diameter, 1.5-4.1" wide), I would say if you encounter any kind of crappy city streets (potholes, etc.) 16" or bigger diameter and 2.5" or bigger width is the bare minimum to be comfortable.

Any smaller or thinner in tire, and you start sacrificing this ideal comfort.

Now, if you're riding on perfect pavement all the time, none of this matters, even the small and thin 14" x 1.5" iPS i5 will feel great.

And there's one strange dude out there that would vouch for the IPS i5.. =)

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I don't know how one can study with wobbles without getting bit.

Here's what I know (I don't mess around with wobbles anymore).

If you sit or squat on a wheel of any size, they wobble but the smaller wheels wobble faster, so I suspect most wobbles are rider-induced that above reason.

I'm not sure if there is any recourse to a wobble going bad (they all wobble a tiny bit regardless of what you do) except to immediately straighten your legs and throw your wheel as far in front of you as possible, as quick as you can, or else the wheel just chucks you. I think the reason that works is that it increases the rake of the "fork" (your legs) while momentarily reducing most forces on the wheel, as a  chucked wheel instantly stops wobbling. Note this is the exact opposite of what happens when you brake on a motorcycle (reducing the rake), so similar phenomenas require opposite actions.

You look at a rider like Chooch as he never wobbles so likely the way not to get wobbles is to simply ride an awful lot. I know that sounds ridiculous but if wobbles are truly rider-induced then that's a legitimate answer.

I'm sure he gets wobbles. He just doesn't video any of his wobbles.

[eddiemoy]

12 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I don't know how one can study with wobbles without getting bit.

Here's what I know (I don't mess around with wobbles anymore).

If you sit or squat on a wheel of any size, they wobble but the smaller wheels wobble faster, so I suspect most wobbles are rider-induced that above reason.

I'm not sure if there is any recourse to a wobble going bad (they all wobble a tiny bit regardless of what you do) except to immediately straighten your legs and throw your wheel as far in front of you as possible, as quick as you can, or else the wheel just chucks you. I think the reason that works is that it increases the rake of the "fork" (your legs) while momentarily reducing most forces on the wheel, as a  chucked wheel instantly stops wobbling. Note this is the exact opposite of what happens when you brake on a motorcycle (reducing the rake), so similar phenomenas require opposite actions.

You look at a rider like Chooch as he never wobbles so likely the way not to get wobbles is to simply ride an awful lot. I know that sounds ridiculous but if wobbles are truly rider-induced then that's a legitimate answer.

I agree that wobbles are induced by the rider for the most part.  Unless you have an imbalance in the wheel, then it is wheel induced.  You don't have to bale when you start getting wobbles.  They are controllable.  I find that when your legs are tired, you get more and if your legs are bent whether it is one or both legs.  To stop the wobbles you just have to not bend your legs.  I find that I only get wobbles when my legs are bent.  When they are straight, when I'm not bracing for bumps, I don't get them.  Other times wobbles or the tenancy to get more wobbles has to do with over inflating your tires.

I also find that I get the wobbles if I brake hard.  I've noticed that when I brake hard, one leg is straight and the other is bent.  Unequal pressure is being applied.  I have to make a conscious effort to straighten the other leg meaning both legs then wobbles immediately go away.  

I don't think you know that Chooch never gets the wobbles.  There are certainly methods to not get wobbles by moving a lot which is what he does.  He does a lot of side to side movements.  I think that helps to reduce wobbles where as most people ride straight and don't do any slalom.  I'm sure Chooch gets them. 

If what you say is true about just riding more to get rid of it, then @Marty Backe has ridden quite a lot.  I don't think it has to do with how much you ride.  But there are beginner wobbles.  

Point is everyone gets the wobbles.  Everyone, doesn't matter if you are experienced or not.

 

[mkygod]

In my mind, there 2 types of wobbles: 

1) Rider induced wobbles, sometimes caused by bending your leg or tensing your legs too much.

2) wobbles that start by taking a hit against objects, pot holes, speed bumps, landing jumps/falls; basically when the wheel is upset by an external force and you try recover the balance of the wheel. Usually it only lasts maybe a second or less because that's normally how long it takes to recover. Maybe wobbles isn't exactly the right word to describe this, but hopefully you know what i mean.

Edited October 4, 2018 by mkygod

[sonicslp]

I've seen chooch get wobbles a couple times. He even commented on having troubles with wobbles on the Z10. I believe he adjusted his footing and deflated the tire in that case which helped. You have to remember these are edits. You rarely see him fall, either, I just don't think he puts a lot of that stuff in his edits. Plus, he's been riding non-stop for so long that guys like him have figured out how to minimize all that stuff. 

[Michael Tucker]

Wobbles are part of the great fascination I have with these wheels. Every rider has experienced them, yet each rider has a different interpretation of what caused it and how to stop or prevent it. After read and watching much commentary on the subject, and riding for just over 6 months myself on several different size wheels, I believe all the factors of riding play a role (wheel size, road condition, tire condition, rider style, fear).

Yet I found the largest contributor to be the mind. I'm 5'4" and 165lb riding weight and have adapted a riding style similar to Chooch (lots of lateral movement and bent knees). This loose style of riding keeps my mind relaxed, but also reduces road factors that can cause the wheel's rapid shift and in-turn fear. I've tried stiff and loose stances at high speed (over 25mph) on rough un-scouted pavement (not wise), and found a relaxed mind to be the main controller of the wobbles. No one style is the correct choice.

 

[Rama Douglas]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm sure he gets wobbles. He just doesn't video any of his wobbles.

Chooch wobbled and fell off the Z10 on one of his test ride vids...I got the wobbles on the V10F at around 20mph. First time on that wheel. I suspect it gets better with more time on the wheel. I never get wobbles on my 14" V5F. I've logged about 1300 miles on it in 5 months! I absolutely love it for tricks, dancing, commuting. Great first wheel, in my opinion. Going for the Z10 next, though...?

[csmyers]

1 hour ago, Michael Hernandez said:

<snip>

Yet I found the largest contributor to be the mind. I'm 5'4" and 165lb riding weight and have adapted a riding style similar to Chooch (lots of lateral movement and bent knees). This loose style of riding keeps my mind relaxed, but also reduces road factors that can cause the wheel's rapid shift and in-turn fear. I've tried stiff and loose stances at high speed (over 25mph) on rough un-scouted pavement (not wise), and found a relaxed mind to be the main controller of the wobbles. No one style is the correct choice.

 

I totally agree with this. For me both straight legs and overly bent legs can cause wobbles. Even just thinking about wobbles sometimes causes wobbles! But slightly bent knees and a relaxed mind have all but eliminated my wobbles. 

[Hermes]

When you crouch there is a tendency to grip the wheel more with your calves at first. This is okay (though ultimately unnecessary) but one result initially is that you will bring you knees closer to the centerline. I’ve found that if you keep your knees over your feet (shins vertical), it reduces wobble tendencies while crouching considerably. As others have said, too, it is largely a matter of staying relaxed. Chooch’s riding style of loosely hovering over the wheel is certainly one to emulate for fast riding, particularly on trails.

[Rramada]

   I have the Gotway McM5 V2 1500watt 800mah battery. I have ridden close to 3,000miles over the past year and I must say it is an all around fantastic wheel. 

   I live in an urban area of West New York, NJ where Bergenline Avenue is always packed with people and cars. This wheel manages to nimbly carve through all that traffic with ease. It excels even in unexpected situations Such as morons who swing their car doors open without notice and I've managed to skim around times where I would have without a doubt crashed right into it! That would be impossible for a large wheel. The range is surprisingly impressive when I weigh almost 200lbs and able to pull 35plus miles on a single charge. I use it to delivery food on Uber as well with no issues.

  In conclusion, it boasts the same power and specs as many of the larger wheels packed into a light and compact model. The light weight is a major plus when living on the 5th floor and not having an elevator.  It's my first wheel and I've mastered riding it and still doesn't get old after thousands of miles. I absolutely recommend this EUC!

[Denny Paul]

a bit of thread necromancy here, but the latest post was actually more on topic than the others lol

I'll add: putting a 3" tire to my MCM5 was one of the best changes I made to any EUC. Made it feel comfortable at top speed; I have to be extra mindful of the beeps because of how stable it feels now at 27 mph. On regular city streets, I'd probably be comfortable around 35mph max on it.

I think the 14" format is very underappreciated. I hope soon developers slap a wider tire on there, up the voltage, and make the best errand/commuting wheel out there. It could be an inconspicuously small form factor, and could realistically be close to 40-45 lbs as the mcm5 is only 37 lbs.

Something great about the nikola+ is it's able to go faster than anyone really wants to go on it --your survival instinct kicks in well before the wheel is maxed out. Overbuilding an EUC directly leads to safety for riders that use them responsibly, and experientially give me a lot of peace of mind. I can just ride the wheel without worrying I'll be hitting anywhere close to the limit. No need to connect to the app or watch a tiny speedo below my crotch.

A 35+mph mcm6 could fit the same bill. Fingers crossed someone makes one.

[alcatraz]

A lightweight 16x3in is the way to go IMO. 16in is agile enough and the weight penalty is small (at least it used to be). MCM5 17kg Tesla 19kg. The Tesla has a larger battery too.

[litewave]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

A lightweight 16x3in is the way to go IMO. 16in is agile enough and the weight penalty is small (at least it used to be). MCM5 17kg Tesla 19kg. The Tesla has a larger battery too.

Depends on your use case and the wheel. The MCM5 is fairly close to a 16" wheel in actual tire size and characteristics. There is no better wheel for me in mixed urban terrain such as bike paths and sidewalks where high maneuverability, nimbleness, torque, and convenience are most important. This is my go-to wheel for errands and short trips in town.

Not sure I would want to go 35+mph on a 14" wheel, however, though I do ride in the low-mid 20s on the MCM5 often. Maybe a 3" wide tire would be more stable at higher speed.

I would have enjoyed owning a Tesla V2 for comparison.

[woke rider]

The King Song 14D has been a really great wheel. It's a 14 incher, but it's not as high performance as the Gotway. KS-14D is really fun once mastered, and it gets a lot of positive attention from people in public, which I enjoy because people get really excited about "what is it ?" What is it called ?", and they bust out words like "Kosher!" It's fun for me. But the attention can be overwhelming. I also have an 18 inch wheel, Z10 which is also a lot fun too, but people don't get as excited when they see me on it as the 14D, which is nice if I don't want the attention. Just keep things on the down low. I think the size of the Ninebot Z10 scares people too much so they don't get excited because they are too worried. I think anyone would be happy with any wheel that they get, but having a small wheel and a large wheel makes sense to me because in certain ways I like my 14D better than my Z10, but in other ways I like my Ninebot better than my King Song. I have never owned a Gotway, but they are considered to be High Performance wheels. The King Song 14D feels more playful, and the public usually enjoy seeing me ride it, as opposed to the Ninebot Z10 which has a tendency to overwhelm.

I wish King Song would come out with a 14D with suspension because I would buy one. Or if Gotway would make an MCM5 with suspension, that would be tempting to buy as a replacement for my 14D when the day comes.

Edited April 29, 2023 by earthtwin
wrong word