Which wheel has the longest range

[Ziiten]

I would like to hear opinions about which wheel would have the longest range, at least theoretically and also be a good wheel for traveling long distances.

[Arbolest]

The Gotway Monster 2400wh. Bar none.

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, Arbolest said:

The Gotway Monster 2400wh. Bar none.

Well? ..........You have.............. Ah ?? ........ Yeah  .....I think you answered it.........Not even close.

[EUCGUY]

whatever wheel with the most total wh. gotway monster biggest option.

[Ziiten]

2 hours ago, Arbolest said:

The Gotway Monster 2400wh. Bar none.

But does bigger battery capacity always mean longer range.

Edit: I got kinda inspired watching Jonathan's and Ian's 1000 mile run. They had Monsters, but not sure what battery capacity.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Ziiten

[duaner]

> But does bigger battery capacity always mean longer range.
Almost.  The efficiency of wheels in distance/Wh does not vary greatly between models.  And the Gotway Monster 2400wh has 2400wh vs the next largest models having 1600wh.  So this Gotway wins the range contest easily.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Ziiten said:

But does bigger battery capacity always mean longer range.

Yes. It's only about battery size, how much Wh are there to use. All wheels, across all brands and tire diameters, use pretty much the same amount of power (Wh/km or Wh/mile) for a fixed rider weight and speed. Nobody here ever found an efficiency difference between manufacturers.

Factors that influence your power usage are (after the big ones, weight and speed) temperature, riding style, wind, tire pressure, tire type, route, etc. And these tend to be smaller than people expect them to be. Sometimes it seems bigger wheels are a bit less efficient, but that's only because you tend to go faster with them. So these influences are much bigger than efficiency differences, and would easily hide them,  if they even exist.

But for the same rider doing the same thing, it appears efficiency is pretty much identical between all wheels. Haven't seen anything to the contrary.

--

So the wheels with the longest ranges are, in descending order:

• Monster 84V 2400Wh (2331Wh real number)
• Monster 100V 1845Wh (1865Wh)
• All the 1680Wh Kingsongs (1658Wh)
• All the 1600Wh Gotways (1554Wh)
• All the 1300Wh Gotways (1288Wh)
• 100V MSuper X 1230Wh (1243Wh)
• Then come the rest with smaller batteries.

1 hour ago, Ziiten said:

Edit: I got kinda inspired watching Jonathan's and Ian's 1000 mile run. They had Monsters, but not sure what battery capacity.

They had 2400Wh Monsters, and built 3 charge ports into each one for 15A fast charging in between (3 chargers with 5A each), I believe. There's an older video about their charge ports.

So the range there wasn't only about battery capacity, it was also about really quick charging during breaks. Sadly, there's no wheel yet that allows a full day's ride without recharging, you'd need like 5000Wh for that.

Edited September 15, 2018 by meepmeepmayer

[Marty Backe]

37 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yes. It's only about battery size, how much Wh are there to use. All wheels, across all brands and tire diameters, use pretty much the same amount of power (Wh/km or Wh/mile) for a fixed rider weight and speed. Nobody here ever found an efficiency difference between manufacturers.

Factors that influence your power usage are (after the big ones, weight and speed) temperature, riding style, wind, tire pressure, tire type, route, etc. And these tend to be smaller than people expect them to be. Sometimes it seems bigger wheels are a bit less efficient, but that's only because you tend to go faster with them. So these influences are much bigger than efficiency differences, and would easily hide them,  if they even exist.

But for the same rider doing the same thing, it appears efficiency is pretty much identical between all wheels. Haven't seen anything to the contrary.

--

So the wheels with the longest ranges are, in descending order:

• Monster 84V 2400Wh (2331Wh real number)
• Monster 100V 1845Wh (1865Wh)
• All the 1680Wh Kingsongs (1658Wh)
• All the 1600Wh Gotways (1554Wh)
• All the 1300Wh Gotways (1288Wh)
• 100V MSuper X 1230Wh (1243Wh)
• Then come the rest with smaller batteries.

They had 2400Wh Monsters, and built 3 charge ports into each one for 15A fast charging in between (3 chargers with 5A each), I believe. There's an older video about their charge ports.

So the range there wasn't only about battery capacity, it was also about really quick charging during breaks. Sadly, there's no wheel yet that allows a full day's ride without recharging, you'd need like 5000Wh for that.

Generally I agree with, and very nice summary BTW. Yet I do suspect that some of KingSong's more recent wheels are more efficient. A few people have been reporting impressive range number for the KS18L, and my 840wh KS14S has a remarkable range (over 40-miles).

[stephen]

41 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Generally I agree with, and very nice summary BTW. Yet I do suspect that some of KingSong's more recent wheels are more efficient. A few people have been reporting impressive range number for the KS18L, and my 840wh KS14S has a remarkable range (over 40-miles).

just watched speedyfeet range test he tested it twice 25-30 miles running it right down the last 20% there's no power ... he tested the kingsong app against map my ride and the kingsong app is over calculated? . he also tested map my ride with his car which was correct 

here's the video

 

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, stephen said:

just watched speedyfeet range test he tested it twice 25-30 miles running it right down the last 20% there's no power ... he tested the kingsong app against map my ride and the kingsong app is over calculated? . he also tested map my ride with his car which was correct 

here's the video

 

Every singe range test that I've seen Ian do, he gets substantially less distance than I do. It's a mystery. 25 to 30 miles is pretty bad for this wheel. I'm pretty sure I'd get 35 to 40 miles.

[stephen]

13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Every singe range test that I've seen Ian do, he gets substantially less distance than I do. It's a mystery. 25 to 30 miles is pretty bad for this wheel. I'm pretty sure I'd get 35 to 40 miles.

i think it might be the terrain we don't have flat roads in the UK and terrain is bad also . but surley his test is correct or he'd be doing himself out of business(more milage would sell better) he only got 35-40 from the msx also, i get 40-50 depending on speed and terrain ? ..

[Marty Backe]

49 minutes ago, stephen said:

i think it might be the terrain we don't have flat roads in the UK and terrain is bad also . but surley his test is correct or he'd be doing himself out of business(more milage would sell better) he only got 35-40 from the msx also, i get 40-50 depending on speed and terrain ? ..

Well, I'm certainly not saying that he's lying. I've bought wheels from Ian. I'm just saying that his mileage represents the worst case, in my experience.

I guess if his primary audience is England, then his tests represent the English Range. In America we get much better mileage 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

In America we get much better mileage 

That's probably because you are putting in different electricity... 120v vs. 220v.   

[LanghamP]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Well, I'm certainly not saying that he's lying. I've bought wheels from Ian. I'm just saying that his mileage represents the worst case, in my experience.

I guess if his primary audience is England, then his tests represent the English Range. In America we get much better mileage 

Ian weighs over 200 pounds whereas you are around 175.

[Gazza-usa]

Possibly the range difference is due to ambient temperature.  Li-ion batteries are notoriously bad at lower temperatures (ie the capacity diminishes due to the chemistry of the electrolyte) .  So environment play into this a lot.  If you've been camping and it freezes at night it's a well known trick to keep your batteries for your flashlight in your sleeping bag with you.  Same with larger batteries.  I would guess the rolling resistance on the roads is also a big factor. 

[Gazza-usa]

I would be interested in what MOSFETs Gotways are using ?  Any ideas.  Lowering the on resistance can significantly improve efficiency too.  Also a small source degeneration resistor can improve reliability (at the loss of efficiency).  Would love to see the schematics of one of the power boards.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Gazza-usa said:

I would be interested in what MOSFETs Gotways are using ?

The MSX 84V uses a HY5012 (W)

 

Quote

 Any ideas.

Maybe the mosfet used for Nikolas is mentioned somewhere in 

?

Quote

 Lowering the on resistance can significantly improve efficiency too.

I'd assume they are already "quite good" without getting to the real expensive ones...

Efficiency wise the motor control algorithm should be quite important?

Quote

 Also a small source degeneration resistor can improve reliability (at the loss of efficiency).  Would love to see the schematics of one of the power boards.

It's "just" 3 half bridges. Two lower side mosfets have an resistor (shunt) between source and ground for current measuring.

Here 

a rockwheel pcb is reverse engineered. Although the phase current measurment is missing?

Edited August 9, 2019 by Chriull