My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[Toshio Uemura]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Can you provide actionable advice on how to go down very steep, rough, trails on the Z10?

I think it’s just a matter of time. There are a lot of subcontious processes going on with the Z. This thing really becomes part of your body more than any other EUC I had before. Riding the Z appears in my dreams. I never had that before, that’s why I think there is a lot of subcontious learning happening here, a kind of binding process that seems to take some time. We have a saying: you learn skiing in summer! Meaning subconsciously not actually technically. I don’t know if what I am trying to say makes any sense to you.

You asked for actionable advice. I can say that much: with all the other wheels I keep both feet parallel on the pedals and just lean backwards, weight on both heals. With the Z it is more like riding on one leg, my main leg closely glued to the wheel and the other food uses the other pedal like a gas and break pedal of a car. So I kind of break with the toes of my other foot not the heal (like with other wheels), while my main foot applies even pressure on the other pedal to keep balance. I don’t know if that makes any sense to anybody, but I can say that. My decent with the Z is very different to any of my other wheels. The thing with the Z is, you can ride it like any other wheel, but you can also ride it completely “asymmetric” like no other wheel. I don’t know if that makes sense to anybody. I can’t explain it better. Sorry for my poor English. 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[that0n3guy]

Isn't the easy way to test "low braking power" with out a hill?  just to try and out brake it... Even on flat it's a fair test.   I have out leaned my 18l in accelerating, just try to do the same braking.  

I'd recommend padding up your butt and elbows first tho :).  

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Isn't the easy way to test "low braking power" with out a hill?  just to try and out brake it... Even on flat it's a fair test.   I have out leaned my 18l in accelerating, just try to do the same braking.  

I'd recommend padding up your butt and elbows first tho :).  

I'm at the point in my riding 'career' that I won't accelerate very hard or brake very hard. That's when bad things happen. But thanks for the suggestion.

[Toshio Uemura]

28 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i’ll ride mine backwards tmrw.

 

The old dogs are learning new tricks ... (whistle)

PS: with old I do not mean “age”, I mean “experienced veterans”! No disrespect intended.

[novazeus]

Just now, Toshio Uemura said:

The old dogs are learning new tricks ... (whistle)

PS: with old I do not mean “age”, I mean “experienced veterans”! No disrespect intended.

no, i meant i’m gonna turn the wheel around.

trix are for kids.

[Marty Backe]

9 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

I think it’s just a matter of time. There are a lot of subcontious processes going on with the Z. This thing really becomes part of your body more than any other EUC I had before. Riding the Z appears in my dreams. I never had that before, that’s why I think there is a lot of subcontious learning happening here, a kind of binding process that seems to take some time. We have a saying: you learn skiing in summer! Meaning subconsciously not actually technically. I don’t know if what I am trying to say makes any sense to you.

You asked for actionable advice. I can say that much: with all the other wheels I keep both feet parallel on the pedals and just lean backwards, weight on both heals. With the Z it is more like riding on one leg, my main leg closely glued to the wheel and the other food uses the other pedal like a gas and break pedal of a car. So I kind of break with the toes of my other foot not the heal (like with other wheels), while my main foot applies even pressure on the other pedal to keep balance. I don’t know if that makes any sense to anybody, but I can say that. My decent with the Z is very different to any of my other wheels. The thing with the Z is, you can ride it like any other wheel, but you can also ride it completely “asymmetric” like no other wheel. I don’t know if that makes sense to anybody. I can’t explain it better. Sorry for my poor English. 

 

Thank you for those descriptions. I think I understand (except for the Z-in-my-dreams part ). I'll experiment on some small very steep hills that I have access to, over the weekend. My mind is open to learning.

Now that all being said, basically you are saying that the Z10 requires much more aggressive braking for it to be effective. Even if this works for me, it's not ideal and IMHO, inferior to the other performance wheels currently available.

Stay tuned ...

[Toshio Uemura]

4 minutes ago, novazeus said:

no, i meant i’m gonna turn the wheel around.

trix are for kids.

Yes, yes. That’s what I understood in the first place. Be safe! 

Keen to hear about the experience... 

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Yes, yes. That’s what I understood in the first place. Be safe! 

Keen to hear about the experience... 

i have fedex eve jitters.

living on a cattle ranch presents special challenges receiving packages with signature required.

[Toshio Uemura]

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thank you for those descriptions. I think I understand (except for the Z-in-my-dreams part ). I'll experiment on some small very steep hills that I have access to, over the weekend. My mind is open to learning.

Now that all being said, basically you are saying that the Z10 requires much more aggressive braking for it to be effective. Even if this works for me, it's not ideal and IMHO, inferior to the other performance wheels currently available.

Stay tuned ...

Be careful when practicing. I don’t want you to get hurt.

Before labeling the Z as “inferior to the other performance wheels ...” I think there is some more testing needed. Especially on flat ground. Since this thing is heavy the rider has to be able to stop it as efficiently as possible and comparable with the other performance wheels. So I hope someone will soon do such comparison tests. MSuper vs. Z10 vs. Monster would make sense. If the Z in fact would be inferior to the other wheels then NB has to work on that. But I still think within their given specs, this wheel is safe if not over-engineered. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[steve454]

9 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i have fedex eve jitters.

living on a cattle ranch presents special challenges receiving packages with signature required.

One time they left a package outside my door and didn't even knock, just took off.  You should probably check your gate soon.

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, steve454 said:

One time they left a package outside my door and didn't even knock, just took off.  You should probably check your gate soon.

If you sign up for e-mail status updates, you will get an immediate e-mail as soon as the package is 'delivered'. Like within a minute or two. It's very effective.

Hopefully someday they will do what Amazon now does, if you use their phone app. You actually get notifications that tell you, "Your package is 4-stops away". And you can click on a map and see where the delivery vehicle is relative to your home. It's very cool.

[Toshio Uemura]

32 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Isn't the easy way to test "low braking power" with out a hill?  just to try and out brake it... Even on flat it's a fair test.   I have out leaned my 18l in accelerating, just try to do the same braking.  

I'd recommend padding up your butt and elbows first tho :).  

I agree. There should be some comparison brake test. 18l vs Z10 vs Monster vs MSuper vs V10 vs PORSCHE Cayenne might be interesting! ? 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Be careful when practicing. I don’t want you to get hurt.

Before labeling the Z as “inferior to the other performance wheels ...” I think there is some more testing needed. Especially on flat ground. Since this thing is heavy the rider has to be able to stop it as efficiently as possible and comparable with the other performance wheels. So I hope someone will soon do such comparison tests. MSuper vs. Z10 vs. Monster would make sense. If the Z in fact would be inferior to the other wheels then NB has to work on that. But I still think within their given specs, this wheel is safe if not over-engineered. 

I'm sorry to keep harping on this, but if the Z10 requires training, practicing, etc., by experienced riders, to effectively navigate steep downhill routes, then it is inferior to current offerings by other companies. If something is easy with 10-wheels but difficult with  1 specific wheel, that wheel is inferior. This is my opinion.

I really like the Z10. I bought the Z10 after riding 350-miles on a test unit. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws relative to other wheels.

[JBoo]

33 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

I think it’s just a matter of time. There are a lot of subcontious processes going on with the Z. This thing really becomes part of your body more than any other EUC I had before. Riding the Z appears in my dreams. I never had that before, that’s why I think there is a lot of subcontious learning happening here, a kind of binding process that seems to take some time. We have a saying: you learn skiing in summer! Meaning subconsciously not actually technically. I don’t know if what I am trying to say makes any sense to you.

You asked for actionable advice. I can say that much: with all the other wheels I keep both feet parallel on the pedals and just lean backwards, weight on both heals. With the Z it is more like riding on one leg, my main leg closely glued to the wheel and the other food uses the other pedal like a gas and break pedal of a car. So I kind of break with the toes of my other foot not the heal (like with other wheels), while my main foot applies even pressure on the other pedal to keep balance. I don’t know if that makes any sense to anybody, but I can say that. My decent with the Z is very different to any of my other wheels. The thing with the Z is, you can ride it like any other wheel, but you can also ride it completely “asymmetric” like no other wheel. I don’t know if that makes sense to anybody. I can’t explain it better. Sorry for my poor English. 

 

This closely matches the stance I've been settling into when I ride the Z.  I plant with my left foot and leg very close to the case where it stays put; meanwhile, my right foot is spaced further out from the case and, while riding, I'll tend to push on my right toes to accelerate forward or rock back on the right heel to brake smoothly.  I'm finding myself bending my knees to shift my center of gravity and adjust what kind of turn I want out of the wheel at speed, while my technique for turning the wheel at low speed doesn't seem much different than what I did on the V8.  And, as I observed earlier, when I start going down a steep grade, I'm shifting my whole upper body towards the back of the wheel to make it brake more aggressively.

[novazeus]

9 minutes ago, steve454 said:

One time they left a package outside my door and didn't even knock, just took off.  You should probably check your gate soon.

 

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If you sign up for e-mail status updates, you will get an immediate e-mail as soon as the package is 'delivered'. Like within a minute or two. It's very effective.

Hopefully someday they will do what Amazon now does, if you use their phone app. You actually get notifications that tell you, "Your package is 4-stops away". And you can click on a map and see where the delivery vehicle is relative to your home. It's very cool.

my ups guy is pretty good. he’ll call me if he needs me but fedex, idk. 

the wheel requires a sig otherwise the fedex guy usually just leaves it at the gate.

amazon is getting better. 

i’ll get up early, go open my gates and leave a note. and then keep my fingers and toes crossed.

[steve454]

15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If you sign up for e-mail status updates, you will get an immediate e-mail as soon as the package is 'delivered'. Like within a minute or two. It's very effective.

Hopefully someday they will do what Amazon now does, if you use their phone app. You actually get notifications that tell you, "Your package is 4-stops away". And you can click on a map and see where the delivery vehicle is relative to your home. It's very cool.

That is very cool, I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

[Toshio Uemura]

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm sorry to keep harping on this, but if the Z10 requires training, practicing, etc., by experienced riders, to effectively navigate steep downhill routes, then it is inferior to current offerings by other companies. If something is easy with 10-wheels but difficult with  1 specific wheel, that wheel is inferior. This is my opinion.

I really like the Z10. I bought the Z10 after riding 350-miles on a test unit. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws relative to other wheels.

The Dodge Viper ACR of my friend is extremely difficult to drive. The gear changes are brutal and require a lot of brute force. The clutch is so heavy it needs the muscles of an olympic lifter. You screw up in this and you are ?. That simple! Everything that is easy with 100 other cars is difficult with the Viper. Is it an inferior car? I think not. This is my opinion. Advanced things require advanced people. The Z is only one other example. 

[Toshio Uemura]

1 hour ago, JBoo said:

This closely matches the stance I've been settling into when I ride the Z.  I plant with my left foot and leg very close to the case where it stays put; meanwhile, my right foot is spaced further out from the case and, while riding, I'll tend to push on my right toes to accelerate forward or rock back on the right heel to brake smoothly.  I'm finding myself bending my knees to shift my center of gravity and adjust what kind of turn I want out of the wheel at speed, while my technique for turning the wheel at low speed doesn't seem much different than what I did on the V8.  And, as I observed earlier, when I start going down a steep grade, I'm shifting my whole upper body towards the back of the wheel to make it brake more aggressively.

Right! And here is another example of how to go downhill on a Z

Note the foot position of the left foot. This is how you ride the Z!

Edited August 24, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[stephen]

3 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Right! And here is another example of how to go downhill on a Z

 

WTF did i just see ??

[US69]

7 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

And here is another example of how to go downhill on a Z

But now you are kidding, or?

We were talking about steep hills...30 degree! Something where you have to break!!! Not accelerate on a 5 degree slope...

Edited August 24, 2018 by US69

[Toshio Uemura]

5 minutes ago, stephen said:

WTF did i just see ??

You saw the potential that the Z holds for riders who dare to challenge it! And you saw how the Z will influence our sports and riders to evolve to new horizons!

[Toshio Uemura]

9 minutes ago, US69 said:

But now you are kidding, or?

We were talking about steep hills...30 degree! Something where younhave to break!!! Not accelerate on a 5 degree slope...

Sorry! Just teething. ??‍♂️

[Toshio Uemura]

I just wanted people to notice the foot position I was talking about earlier. If you pause the clip it’s easy to see. 

[US69]

4 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

You saw the potential that the Z holds for riders who dare to challenge it! And you saw how the Z will influence our sports and riders to evolve to new horizons!

 Holy crap! perhaps you should also try to smoke the Z10!! who knows which horizon can be evolved then?

I go to bed now...but with my girlfriend, not my wheel!!!

[FreeRide]

Everyone can give it a rest now. Let's wait for new input.  It's a wheel, relax, don't lose your sense of humor, wheels are fun.