My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

I can’t live without braking assistance, I think it is essential 

I really don't like it. Personal taste, and everyone is different.

[justanut]

Hi guys, I’ve been a silent follower for quite a while.. Always enjoyed all your videos. I’m a V8 owner who just received the Z10 today. I have to say OMG. It is such a beast! 

I am Marty's weight so I had followed his recommendation of 30 PSI when I took the Z10 out for my first mile. Found myself wobbling left and right, especially on roads that weren’t level (incline on the side). So I had tried riding 20 PSI which felt great at first, but soon proved to be wobbling even worse on inclines.. And went back to 30 PSI. Over the next couple of miles I had gotten used to ridding the wheel.. really riding it like a skateboard and letting it take me left and right when the road isn’t that level, if you know what I mean.. Instead of fighting it and trying to keep it in a tight straight line.

I must say the turning is fantastic at low speed, you can really do tight turns almost pivoting on the spot. However at higher speeds suddenly instead of using the leg you are turning into to prop the wheel up, I’m using the outer leg to push the wheel in the direction I’m turning.. Just like what many had mentioned.. its very different.

I don’t think I’ll have the opportunity to encounter any steep slopes like Marty here in Singapore.. So I doubt I’ll have any issues with this wheel at all. The Z10 is a beast! The few slopes and sudden out crops that used to take my V8 a bit of a strugge to climb passrd by without me feeling any resistance at all on the Z10. It is just crazy powerful. Now I need to clock more miles and gain more experience with the peculiarities of the wheel before trying to push it faster.

Thanks for helping me decide on the wheel! (My wife would probably kill you if she found out about you lol). Cheers!

[justanut]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I really don't like it. Personal taste, and everyone is different.

Oh erm.. I prefer having it.. Feels more akin to the usual V8 braking when I have it on.. I can feel more feedback when I sit back to slow and stop. Without it, it feels hollow.. don’t feel the rubberband effect if you get what I mean..

[Marty Backe]

20 minutes ago, justanut said:

Hi guys, I’ve been a silent follower for quite a while.. Always enjoyed all your videos. I’m a V8 owner who just received the Z10 today. I have to say OMG. It is such a beast! 

I am Marty's weight so I had followed his recommendation of 30 PSI when I took the Z10 out for my first mile. Found myself wobbling left and right, especially on roads that weren’t level (incline on the side). So I had tried riding 20 PSI which felt great at first, but soon proved to be wobbling even worse on inclines.. And went back to 30 PSI. Over the next couple of miles I had gotten used to ridding the wheel.. really riding it like a skateboard and letting it take me left and right when the road isn’t that level, if you know what I mean.. Instead of fighting it and trying to keep it in a tight straight line.

I must say the turning is fantastic at low speed, you can really do tight turns almost pivoting on the spot. However at higher speeds suddenly instead of using the leg you are turning into to prop the wheel up, I’m using the outer leg to push the wheel in the direction I’m turning.. Just like what many had mentioned.. its very different.

I don’t think I’ll have the opportunity to encounter any steep slopes like Marty here in Singapore.. So I doubt I’ll have any issues with this wheel at all. The Z10 is a beast! The few slopes and sudden out crops that used to take my V8 a bit of a strugge to climb passrd by without me feeling any resistance at all on the Z10. It is just crazy powerful. Now I need to clock more miles and gain more experience with the peculiarities of the wheel before trying to push it faster.

Thanks for helping me decide on the wheel! (My wife would probably kill you if she found out about you lol). Cheers!

I would experiment more with the tire pressure. With this wheel, just a few psi can make a noticeable difference. For instance, 27-psi might be the sweet spot for you. Best to experiment.

Yes, it's best for none of our wives to know about this Forum 

[RoberAce]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Realmente no me gusta. Gusto personal, y todos son diferentes.

it could be that this descent of the hill was safer with the help of braking assistance activated

[justanut]

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I would experiment more with the tire pressure. With this wheel, just a few psi can make a noticeable difference. For instance, 27-psi might be the sweet spot for you. Best to experiment.

Yes, it's best for none of our wives to know about this Forum 

I agree with the PSI observation! I was on 30, and decided to just let out a few puffs enroute.. So I’m guessing its maybe 27, 28 now and feels good. I might experiment more after I’ve had a few more miles clocked.. Its difficult for me to find 50mile trails here, seeing as thats almost the entire length of my tiny island country lol.

And yes.. Wives and wheels are two Ws that do not mix well ?

Edited August 24, 2018 by justanut

[US69]

@Marty Backe

Actually it is really hard to see that you get tips on how to handle the Z10 to master this hill 

This is really only in the EUC szene...if somebody comes along, makes a phantastic great -and honest- video review about a wheel, but also shows its one weakness.......all the good things you said are forgotten, and the ownergroup of that certain wheel jumps in, as if you have layed their house on fire!

I mean, come on, Marty has -actually- 8-9 wheels at home, owned even some more, allready had the Z10 prototype for about 3 weeks, has with 450miles on it probably done more than most of the other new Z10 owners(important word is „most“, Roberto!) , has had every one of its wheels on this -ultra steep - hills, so he was there about a 20times(and ALL other wheels got down there with ease btw).....and you -really?- want to advise him only needs to practice more on the Z10 to „make it master“ this hill?? 

This is no world going down sczenario...its just that ONE weak point of the wheel, it is still phantastic :-) And i am happy that he pointed this weakness out...so perhaps some even heavier people in hill areas are not disappointed having something they can not live with.....(and there are this San Frisco videos also existing, where the Z10 shoots under the people and is not able to brake them @who_the and @Alien Rides for example)

Man, what would it be frustrating when such reviewers as Marty are not there? And instead you have to make an opinion on some „Hallelullja, my new flawless wheel is here“ reviews?

Ok, Rant over :-)

 

 

Ps.: I still cant get over that face expression....haha 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by US69

[Toshio Uemura]

9 minutes ago, US69 said:

: I still cant get over that face expression....haha 

 

There is the BEFORE and AFTER face. ?     I ❤️ the BEFORE face.

[JBoo]

So I've just done a second morning commute, and I'm going to provide some more thoughts about the Z10's downhill performance.  My morning commute basically consists of starting on a hill in Seattle and rolling down to the waterfront, a 5 mile trip.  Along the way, I go down a bevy of hilly streets; some are nice, shallow grades, some are really steep   On the steep grades, I'm finding I have to physically swing my upper body towards the back of the wheel.  As soon as I do this, the wheel starts braking, hard.  The whole experience sort of reminds me of what I had to do when I wanted the Solowheel Extreme to brake hard.  Interestingly, if I'm speeding on the flat and I want the wheel to brake hard, I undertake a similar maneuver.  I do not have braking assist enabled.

Given this, I feel confident in saying the Z10 has no problem whatsoever with braking power, it has plenty of braking power.  People who are worried about this should put those fears to rest.  The only question, for me at least, is whether tapping the wheel's braking ability could be done with a bit more finesse.

[Toshio Uemura]

26 minutes ago, JBoo said:

Given this, I feel confident in saying the Z10 has no problem whatsoever with braking power, it has plenty of braking power.  People who are worried about this should put those fears to rest.  The only question, for me at least, is whether tapping the wheel's braking ability could be done with a bit more finesse

Of course it doesn’t! I can’t say this often and loud enough guys: There is a learning curve with the Z. And it doesn’t matter whether you you have ridden 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 or 15 wheels for 20.000 km the Z behaves different in many aspects and the old dogs have to learn new tricks. That’s just the way it is and in time you will see it’s great fun to learn new tricks! The best proof to this fact is, when you try to get back to your previous wheels after getting used to the Z. You will have trouble enjoying them again and I had to learn a second time to ride my Tesla, this beautiful super sensitive wheel. The MSuper is a bit closer to the Z, but still. So, yes! The Z10 has no problem whatsoever with braking power! as JBoo said. ?

Edited August 24, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[US69]

58 minutes ago, JBoo said:

this, I feel confident in saying the Z10 has no problem whatsoever with braking power, it has plenty of braking power.  People who are worried about this should put those fears to rest.  The only question, for me at least, is whether tapping the wheel's braking ability could be done with a bit more finesse.

 

33 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Of course it doesn’t! I can’t say this often and loud enough guys: There is a learning curve with the Z. And it doesn’t matter whether you you have ridden 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 or 15 wheels for 20.000 km the Z behaves different in many aspects and the old dogs have to learn new tricks. That’s

It really starts  getting surreal 

[Toshio Uemura]

56 minutes ago, US69 said:

 

It really starts  getting surreal 

Just out of curiosity: Have you ridden the Z for a month or longer (as I did). If not?! it really starts getting surreal and almost religious cult like ... ? 

[US69]

46 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Just out of curiosity: Have you ridden the Z for a month or longer (as I did). If not?! it really starts getting surreal and almost religious cult like ... ? 

Nope! Not one meter at all!!!

But you have to excuse that i personal believe much, much more in a higly reputated 12-14 wheels owner,  mileage 20k experienced rider, who had done 450miles on the z10 (btw. how much  have you done?) ....bringing all his wheels to the exact same testing ground AND videoing it for the community AND showing us the proofs of his claims on video(beside all the other video proof of brake struggling from for example the SF bay riders). Thats what i call realistic and objectiv.

While singing „Its the best wheel of the world and has no problems whatsoever“ hallelujahs....with the ability  of comparing it to how much wheels ridden?...Or bringing it to which steep hills testing grounds?.....seams higly subjectiv for me and just young fanboy like surreal behaviour, Sorry!

Why dont you get a 40 pounds backpack on to have the 175pounds that Marty has, and take the z10 to some more than 30degree hill up and down for example beside/near some steers, like they are existing a ton of for example the GW and KS wheels, and video it?

I mean: Some Videos of the z10 having some serious problems braking -extreme downhill- allready exist....see here in the thread!

So perhaps you throw in some real proof that its otherwise? Just out of curiosity 

Edited August 24, 2018 by US69

[Toshio Uemura]

15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

And why exactly did I not need any learning experience on this identical hill with the V10F, the KS14S, KS18S, and all the Gotway wheels? I think it's because this hill is steeper than you think it is and the Z10 is an inferior hill descender 

Have you tried riding the Z backward?! I mean the wheel itself not you facing forward and riding backwards. I mean like the KS16, there is no real front or back. I mean have you tried to ride the Z uphill with the taillight facing forward? Do you feel the difference? Can you get used to this difference? Sorry! May be I am just stupid experimenting around with my wheels, trying to feel them out in many different ways. I can’t ride on the handle yet, not using the pedals at all. But I am trying.

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Have you tried riding the Z backward?! I mean the wheel itself not you facing forward and riding backwards. I mean like the KS16, there is no real front or back. I mean have you tried to ride the Z uphill with the taillight facing forward? Do you feel the difference? Can you get used to this difference? Sorry! May be I am just stupid experimenting around with my wheels, trying to feel them out in many different ways. I can’t ride on the handle yet, not using the pedals at all. But I am trying.

that’s what i said.

at least i don’t feel as stupid now.

maybe there is a front and back on the zed sled.

[Toshio Uemura]

4 minutes ago, US69 said:

believe

That’s what I meant by “religious cult like“. 

I only own 6 EUCs and may have less then half the mileage others have, but I know my Z and I am not afraid of going down any hill with it that it got me up in the first place. And we have steep hills in Japan too trust me. ?

[US69]

7 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

That’s what I meant by “religious cult like“. 

I only own 6 EUCs and may have less then half the mileage others have, but I know my Z and I am not afraid of going down any hill with it that it got me up in the first place. And we have steep hills in Japan too trust me. ?

Would have been nice if you said anything to my arguments...but seams that is not possible!

Edited August 24, 2018 by US69

[Toshio Uemura]

12 minutes ago, novazeus said:

that’s what i said.

at least i don’t feel as stupid now.

maybe there is a front and back on the zed sled.

Yes, I think there is. And there is no need to feel stupid. It would also explain the brake assistant.

And that may be the reason why it feels different compared to all the other wheels and that may also be the reason why there is a learning curve. 

[Marty Backe]

16 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

That’s what I meant by “religious cult like“. 

I only own 6 EUCs and may have less then half the mileage others have, but I know my Z and I am not afraid of going down any hill with it that it got me up in the first place. And we have steep hills in Japan too trust me. ?

You weigh 30 to 40 pounds less than me. Weight matters.

[Toshio Uemura]

11 minutes ago, US69 said:

Would have been nice if you said anything to my arguments...but seams that is not possible!

Since you have never ridden the Z there is nothing to argue about. Based on the experience you have with other wheels you are 100% right. So what’s the point. And I don’t want to show off with my mileage. You can check some of my videos to see that I am not a newbie. So what’s more to say. I don’t want this to turn into a pissing contest. I trust, everybody here is entitled to his opinion. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[novazeus]

6 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Yes, I think there is. And there is no need to feel stupid. It would also explain the brake assistant.

And that may be the reason why it feels different compared to all the other wheels and that may also be the reason why there is a learning curve. 

all u gotta do is try a ride a hill with the wheel backwards. 

easy peazey.

[Toshio Uemura]

3 minutes ago, novazeus said:

all u gotta do is try a ride a hill with the wheel backwards. 

easy peazey.

Easy peazey. ?

[Toshio Uemura]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You weigh 30 to 40 pounds less than me. Weight matters.

Yes it does! 

All I am trying to say here is: Give it some more time! If in a week or a month or so, you still have this same traumatic experience with your Z, I will rest my case. I can only repeat: I had this exactly same fear at first that the wheel would run away under my feet, and I probably made the same face then you made on your decent when I was going down on some of my steep slopes and now after a month or so I don’t have it anymore. I can got down any hill the Z carries me up. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Yes it does! 

All I am trying to say here is: Give it some more time! If in a week or a month or so, you still have this same traumatic experience with your Z, I will rest my case. I can only repeat: I had this exactly same fear at first that the wheel would run away under my feet, and I probably made the same face then you made on your decent when I was going down on some of my steep slopes and now after a month or so I don’t have it anymore. I can got down any hill the Z carries me up. 

Can you provide actionable advice on how to go down very steep, rough, trails on the Z10?

[novazeus]

i’ll ride mine backwards tmrw.