!!! Firmware or hardware problems with KS18L, wheels locking up while trolleying

[joku]

@US69 Can someone make a video on how to use the app? When I first got my KS18L I was very excited to use it and the app frustrated me because it wouldn't connect to the wheel. Eventually I found in one of the threads that I had to click on device > bluetooth icon > press on text "searching" to find > connect to KS18L. Then the other settings had to be figured out. It would be nice to have a quick detailed video on how to do connect and configure things via the app, instead of searching through the internet for each individual item. Even a wiki would work.

[Scubadragonsan]

Thanks again Stan. I am already aware of that feature, but didn't turn it off. Now I will.

Edited August 1, 2018 by scubadragosan

[Scubadragonsan]

I hope the lift sensor is only a software/app issue, not a hardware issue.

[US69]

30 minutes ago, scubadragosan said:

I hope the lift sensor is only a software/app issue, not a hardware issue.

Even IF it is the lift sensor(even that is not sure) if it would be a hardware problem...even than it could be soluted by software(my opinion).

You just have to be sure that this lift sensor will be only enabled in the RIGHT specific situation! 

But folks...thats all speculation.....

Edited August 1, 2018 by US69

[Circuitmage]

Received debug app version for supposedly different 1.07 FW install, supposed to fix lock up issue. Installed it yesterday and started riding again. We'll see...

[em1barns]

@US69, as a general feedback after 500km on ks18L (my first kingsong wheel, having owned ninebot, Inmotion and gotway before).

I am amazed Kingsong spends so much time and effort (and in essence money) correcting decorative side lights and trolley sensor issues, instead of improving essential features: having a rock-solid trolley and weatherproof wheel (ip54 at least).

To me they lost the sense of priorities doing so. Better have a rock-solid trolley without lift sensor than current unstable trolley with a lift sensor that will never work reliably (seeing the technical solution chosen, it will never work 100%). Taking the wheel on pavement only on first level, trolley bounces in all directions and feels like it’s going to crack. It feels very fragile.

All these small unmastered features also raise the concern that at some stage the real-time microprocessor will bug while riding due to some fancy features (such as USB key music) not properly written.

So it would not require much to make it an excellent wheel, but ks priorities do puzzle me.

Edited August 5, 2018 by em1barns

[US69]

 

 

14 minutes ago, em1barns said:

am amazed Kingsong spends so much time and effort (and in essence money) correcting decorative side lights and trolley sensor issues, instead of improving essential features: having a rock-solid trolley and weatherproof wheel (ip54 at least).

 To me they lost the sense of priorities doing so. Better have a rock-solid trolley without lift sensor than current unstable trolley with a lift sensor that will never work reliably (seeing the technical solution chosen, it will never work 100%). Taking the wheel on pavement only on first level, trolley bounces in all directions and feels like it’s going to crack. It feels very fragile.

 All these small unmastered features also raise the concern that at some stage the real-time microprocessor will bug while riding due to some fancy features (such as USB key music) not properly written.

I love to have constructic discussion, but i can answer it as cynical as you:

Perhaps you should have stayed on the high power Ninebots with their also very souvereign firmware updates on the One E, or should have bought a rock solid v10f, at least if you are not more than 80—85kg....as it always overheat(and btw cant ride at all in the rain in the moment anymore) Or perhaps again choosing a Gotway, which are truly known for making the best most solid shells, which you can at least open ONE time, before all the wooden screws fail and you have to secure the shell with gaffer tape, as i have to do this weekend when i upgraded my Monster from 1600wh to 2000wh. Its now my „gaffer“ EUC and now everyone can clearly see the beauty of its nice quality hardware! 

And yes, because Ks still has the best trolley option on all wheels available outside, which yes, could sure  have been done better when they would have done it shorter, which then would have the bigger people bashing again that its to short!

My conclusion is now also that as next thing what will fail is there board because of some more music options...or wait.....maybe even because of using a third party app your wheel may fail? Who knows???

Cynic Mode Off.

Have a nice one! :-) i will now also enjoy my free Sunday!!!

 

[Lutalo]

2 hours ago, em1barns said:

@US69, as a general feedback after 500km on ks18L (my first kingsong wheel, having owned ninebot, Inmotion and gotway before).

I am amazed Kingsong spends so much time and effort (and in essence money) correcting decorative side lights and trolley sensor issues, instead of improving essential features: having a rock-solid trolley and weatherproof wheel (ip54 at least).

To me they lost the sense of priorities doing so. Better have a rock-solid trolley without lift sensor than current unstable trolley with a lift sensor that will never work reliably (seeing the technical solution chosen, it will never work 100%). Taking the wheel on pavement only on first level, trolley bounces in all directions and feels like it’s going to crack. It feels very fragile.

All these small unmastered features also raise the concern that at some stage the real-time microprocessor will bug while riding due to some fancy features (such as USB key music) not properly written.

So it would not require much to make it an excellent wheel, but ks priorities do puzzle me.

I have been riding the 18L for a couple of days now. In my opinion it is already an excellent wheel. It is not a perfect wheel, but it is in fact excellent.

From the beautiful aesthetic and refined design to the powerful and balanced performance, the 18L is a truly impressive wheel to behold and ride. I think that their priorities are in the proper place.

Sure, the trolley could be better reinforced. I am currently experiencing the soft lock failure on my trolley, but @Jason McNeil is attentive, on it, and sending me the better reinforced version; problem solved.

To me, the trolley handle is an annoying, but small thing when compared to what is right about this wheel. I personally don't need a waterproof wheel because I don't like riding in inclement weather and I certainly have no plans to go swimming with the wheel. Furthermore, I haven't heard of too many complaints from riders about wheels failing them when riding in the rain.

My son got caught in a thunderstorm two days ago while riding home from work on the 18L. The wheel worked fine and got him home safely; so, even though it is recommended to avoid riding in torrential downpours, it seems the wheel holds up just fine if the rider is caught and needs to ride a short distance to find shelter from the rain. 

The motherboard reliability thing: I also fully expect that we might (but not necessarily) see more reliability issues as the wheels become more complex. Reliability hiccups often accompanies the introduction of new tech; we see the same phenomenon in other industries. Since our wheels only have a few parts to begin with, I doubt that they will ever become as unreliable as cars, laptops, and other devices with more moving parts.

Enjoy your wheel dude. Best of luck.

[US69]

5 hours ago, Lutalo said:

me, the trolley handle is an annoying, but small thing when compared to what is right about this wheel. I personally don't need a waterproof wheel because I don't like riding in inclement weather and I certainly have no plans to go swimming with the wheel. Furthermore, I haven't heard of too many complaints from riders about wheels failing them when riding in the rain.

 My son got caught in a thunderstorm two days ago while riding home from work on the 18L. The wheel worked fine and got him home safely; so, even though it is recommended to avoid riding in torrential downpours, it seems the wheel holds up just fine if the rider is caught and needs to ride a short distance to find shelter from the rain. 

 

To say it from Kingsongs side: There is not ONE rain or water ingress failure reported today on the newer 14/16/18 where i know from and from my personal side i have to say this is only a failed Asssumption, saying the wheel isnt at least splash water resisistant. KS‘s system with an outer and inner shell, the board over the wheel, and now even trowing the batterie into a closed compartment....has prooved to be good.

Yes, the trolley lock handle issue is a shame...

What the reason for it? Ks has tried to come up with a solution to have their in the middle of the wheel integrated trolley AND a lock system, that everyone wants nowadays! Is that possible with a manual button under the handle? Perhaps!? .....But wouldnt that have made other complains? you bet on this answer :-)

Since Tina is back at KS i can only say the communication and what they have tried to get problems out of the way is outstanding for a small chinese EUC company!

My 2 cents....

Edited August 5, 2018 by US69

[Lutalo]

24 minutes ago, US69 said:

 

To say it from Kingsongs side: There is not ONE rain or water ingress failure reported today on the newer 14/16/18 where i know from and from my personal side i have to say this is only a failed Asssumption, saying the wheel isnt at least splash water resisistant. KS‘s system with an outer and inner shell, the board over the wheel, and now even trowing the batterie into a closed compartment....has prooved to be good.

Yes, the trolley lock handle issue is a shame...

What the reason for it? Ks has tried to come up with a solution to have their in the middle of the wheel integrated trolley AND a lock system, that everyone wants nowadays! Is that possible with a manual button under the handle? Perhaps? wouldnt that have made other complains? you bet on this answer :-)

Since Tina is back at KS i can only say the communication and what they have tried to get problems out of the way is outstanding for a small chinese EUC company!

My 2 cents....

I agree, I have been impressed with KS's diligence and quick responses in resolving the firmware issues. Couple the quality commitment of the manufacturer with the excellent customer service and technical support that U.S. buyers get from EWheels and you have a winning formula. 

These are machines, and things eventually malfunction on all machines. For me as a buyer, real differentiation between brands doesn't happen with loud gimmicky designs, but with a commitment to high quality at the level of development and support.

All companies kiss the buyers' ass to win a purchase. It is how I am treated after I buy something that matters to me most. This determines if the company will establish a sustainable relationship with me.

[Stan Onymous]

Not To mention the new Firmware for the KS18S that just gave me a brand new Wheel! Kingsong could have brushed there hands together and said they were done with improving that vehicle, but this summer they gave it newer Firmware which just totally improved their KS18s. They mustve learned some new stuff developing the KS18L and decided to upgrade the older model too. WOW!

BTW I have been stuck in rain showers on my V10F twice, the wheel was drenched, but no issues, so I wonder how much rain one has to ride in for it to fail or any of these wheels for that matter. IP54 only means that they went through the process to get it rated once, not that your production model will be tested. So the quality will vary even with testing marked on the wheel. That wheel was never tested, so you are still trusting the company.

I really do think that most people pay a premium so they can complain about something. This forum should have more success stories instead of a complaint about a trolley handle someone thinks is fragile, even though it hasnt broken on them and is easy as pie to use. I never thought I would use the speakers. I used to think they were stupid. Lol, now I use them almost every long solo ride I am on. It solves the idea of answering angry bicyclists questions when I pass them going uphill, and pass them I do on a regular basis. Oh and the trolley disengagement has not stopped me once in passing the bicyclists. So why complain about it?

[ED209]

1 hour ago, Stan Onymous said:

newer Firmware which just totally improved their KS18s.

In what way has it Improved? More torque? Handling? Does it feel  very similar to the 18L?

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, Stan Onymous said:

I never thought I would use the speakers. I used to think they were stupid. Lol, now I use them almost every long solo ride I am on. It solves the idea of answering angry bicyclists questions when I pass them going uphill, and pass them I do on a regular basis. 

I haven't yet used the speakers. I didn't use them at all on what is now my back up KS18, so, out of habit I haven't used the 18L speakers. I will definitely try them out.

[US69]

2 hours ago, Stan Onymous said:

I really do think that most people pay a premium so they can complain about something. This forum should have more success stories instead of a complaint about a trolley handle someone thinks is fragile, even though it hasnt broken on them and is easy as pie to use. I never thought I would use the speakers. I used to think they were stupid. Lol, now I use them almost every long solo ride I am on. It solves the idea of answering angry bicyclists questions when I pass them going uphill, and pass them I do on a regular basis. Oh and the trolley disengagement has not stopped me once in passing the bicyclists. So why complain about it?

Yip, thats exactly the way it is!

Social media is great....but sometimes it may ruin all of our experience or confluence us in the wrong direction!

When i may give an example: Again-the trolley lock issue has happend and its bad!!!

but - some of my seller contact, for example Germany or Thailand or some others....did NOT experience it at all and didnt have even One faulty wheeland i even haf to explain them what might be the problem!

What i mean is: when you read here....it sometimes comes over as as the 18L is a mismanaged wheel ...and only has faults!

Whenever i see video/you tube  experiences on the 18L at most the content is saying „great wheel“...while for a visitor of this forum it may look other way around! You/We ALL have to see some of the complains in context! And this does go for the other brands, too!

Edited August 5, 2018 by US69

[Stan Onymous]

39 minutes ago, Edddeus said:

In what way has it Improved? More torque? Handling? Does it feel  very similar to the 18L?

So far and I have only gone on one test ride, it feels less like a vehicle and more like a wheel under my legs. I never had problems with torque, and have even less to worry about now. Much more responsive going uphill. I have mine tilted about 5°-10° forward, so hills have never been a problem for me going up. The new firmware even changed the high pitched whine a little. Sounds more vehicular like a Prius. 

Handling has always been great for me on the ks18s. The only problems for me were that the torque could throw me up a tree branch if I was aiming at it and not careful. Sometimes I get the wobbles going down hill, but that is a rider error.

[novazeus]

29 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

So far and I have only gone on one test ride, it feels less like a vehicle and more like a wheel under my legs. I never had problems with torque, and have even less to worry about now. Much more responsive going uphill. I have mine tilted about 5°-10° forward, so hills have never been a problem for me going up. The new firmware even changed the high pitched whine a little. Sounds more vehicular like a Prius. 

Handling has always been great for me on the ks18s. The only problems for me were that the torque could throw me up a tree branch if I was aiming at it and not careful. Sometimes I get the wobbles going down hill, but that is a rider error.

i’m a little snakebit about screwing with kingsong’s app and firmware but could u please tell me what platform u used to update ur firmware ie ios or android and what firmware u are on?

[US69]

34 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

So far and I have only gone on one test ride, it feels less like a vehicle and more like a wheel under my legs. I never had problems with torque, and have even less to worry about now. Much more responsive going uphill. I have mine tilted about 5°-10° forward, so hills have never been a problem for me going up. The new firmware even changed the high pitched whine a little. Sounds more vehicular like a Prius. 

Handling has always been great for me on the ks18s. The only problems for me were that the torque could throw me up a tree branch if I was aiming at it and not careful. Sometimes I get the wobbles going down hill, but that is a rider error.

@Edddeus I can personally only go with @Stan Onymousi dont know which Fw upgarde it was....but KS definitely has worked on the motor driver!

It has more torque, is more smooth, and like he said even the sound got better! Thats one of the main KS features....the wheel firmware can be upgraded....and best is...it HAS been upgraded (and not forgotten!)

[ricqvo]

Okay... App says that that I have ridden 230km since monday, when I recieved the wheel... Only one week and 230km...

I had a lot of problems so far... But the biggest problem now is fast discharging... I am charging with only one charger for 10-12 hours... When I ride high speeds (like 40kmph), the battery % is falling like idk what... I rode 23km today, average speed 33kmph and battery % now from 100% at the beginning to 55%... 

The wind was maybe a bit stong, but 100% asphalt road and bicycle road... No hills at all...

Today I opened the wheel and checked everything is ok inside... I didnt see anything bad, everything looked ok....

I dont know if that is alright... I am 76kg and 1.8m tall...  I ride 30-40kmph...

[ricqvo]

And I cant or dont know how to calibrate the lift sensor... I press calibrate button, than next step and it does not do anything....

[US69]

1 minute ago, ricqvo said:

Okay... App says that that I have ridden 230km since monday, when I recieved the wheel... Only one week and 230km...

I had a lot of problems so far... But the biggest problem now is fast discharging... I am charging with only one charger for 10-12 hours... When I ride high speeds (like 40kmph), the battery % is falling like idk what... I rode 23km today, average speed 33kmph and battery % now from 100% at the beginning to 55%... 

The wind was maybe a bit stong, but 100% asphalt road and bicycle road... No hills at all...

Today I opened the wheel and checked everything is ok inside... I didnt see anything bad, everything looked ok....

I dont know if that is alright... I am 76kg and 1.8m tall...  I ride 30-40kmph...

 

The average consumtion on ALL bigger wheels goes to a average consumption of 16-25WH  for one km.

So the real range of a 18L i would say goes from 40-65km .......

If you really think that it would made 100km...that unfortunately goes only for a 60kg person going only 20kmh ...under laboratory settings, not breaking, not accelerationing, doing nothing....just cruising!

so if you have done 23km ...while driving it at speeds from 30-40kmh...everything is normal, Sorry! And the battery goes from 100 down to  55%....that sounds normal, Sorry! also depends a LOT if you breaked or accelerate a lot.....

 

That btw goes for ALL Euc companies that are -unfortunately- telling much to optimistic things about their range!

 

[Lutalo]

6 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

And I cant or dont know how to calibrate the lift sensor... I press calibrate button, than next step and it does not do anything....

I just turned mine off.

[ricqvo]

27 minutes ago, US69 said:

 

The average consumtion on ALL bigger wheels goes to a average consumption of 16-25WH  for one km.

So the real range of a 18L i would say goes from 40-65km .......

If you really think that it would made 100km...that unfortunately goes only for a 60kg person going only 20kmh ...under laboratory settings, not breaking, not accelerationing, doing nothing....just cruising!

so if you have done 23km ...while driving it at speeds from 30-40kmh...everything is normal, Sorry! And the battery goes from 100 down to  55%....that sounds normal, Sorry! also depends a LOT if you breaked or accelerate a lot.....

 

That btw goes for ALL Euc companies that are -unfortunately- telling much to optimistic things about their range!

 

Thank you! I bought the wheel for commuting everyday to school... Today I rode exactly the way to school and back... So around 25km in total... 

And I cant get the right pressure too... The wheel is still quick turning left and right at high speeds, wich is dangerous and feels deffinetly not nice... Ive tryed 3.2bar, 2 bar, 2.5 bar... Cant figure it out..

Btw on the first charge the second day I got this wheel I made 45km trip, high speeds, quite hilly asphalt road, started with 85%, came back with 25%... So that was a pretty nice performance... Avarage speed around 28kmph...

[Stan Onymous]

45 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

Okay... App says that that I have ridden 230km since monday, when I recieved the wheel... Only one week and 230km...

I had a lot of problems so far... But the biggest problem now is fast discharging... I am charging with only one charger for 10-12 hours... When I ride high speeds (like 40kmph), the battery % is falling like idk what... I rode 23km today, average speed 33kmph and battery % now from 100% at the beginning to 55%... 

The wind was maybe a bit stong, but 100% asphalt road and bicycle road... No hills at all...

Today I opened the wheel and checked everything is ok inside... I didnt see anything bad, everything looked ok....

I dont know if that is alright... I am 76kg and 1.8m tall...  I ride 30-40kmph...

Your biggest enemy with regards to range will be wind resistance. If you are charging into the wind at 30-40kph, then you are probably losing around 50% power just fighting the wind. Bicyclists say that 70% of their power loss can come from wind resistance, so the same can be said of the Wheels, since we are awful in our aerodynamic design as humans. Turning sideways could help, but I use my hands outstretched in front of my bodyin a prayer shape or the ‘Ultra-man’ hand pose. This immediately effects the wheel’s power and speed.

try it out.

[ricqvo]

5 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

Your biggest enemy with regards to range will be wind resistance. If you are charging into the wind at 30-40kph, then you are probably losing around 50% power just fighting the wind. Bicyclists say that 70% of their power loss can come from wind resistance, so the same can be said of the Wheels, since we are awful in our aerodynamic design as humans. Turning sideways could help, but I use my hands outstretched in front of my bodyin a prayer shape or the ‘Ultra-man’ hand pose. This immediately effects the wheel’s power and speed.

try it out.

Thank you! Can you please write more about those hands you are talking about? How to do that hand position?

[Stan Onymous]

36 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

Thank you! Can you please write more about those hands you are talking about? How to do that hand position?

I Sure Can! Here ya go check it out below.