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Kingsong Range and Performance Throttling


electricpen
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  • 2 months later...

I always thought my next wheel would be a ks16s, but the throttling has got me thinking more about Gotways now.  I’d rather have a fun ride for 85% than 50% of the battery.  Also with me weighing between upper 180s and 210 depending on what time of the year it is, I think I need more battery than 840wh.

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6 hours ago, Joker10 said:

I always thought my next wheel would be a ks16s, but the throttling has got me thinking more about Gotways now.  I’d rather have a fun ride for 85% than 50% of the battery.  Also with me weighing between upper 180s and 210 depending on what time of the year it is, I think I need more battery than 840wh.

If you want lots of range with no throttling, buy the new ACM2. It's a classic wheel that's even better with the latest iteration.

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1 hour ago, fryman said:

The weight of the rider and roads have a lot to do with distance.  With my massive 115 lbs (all wet) I went 40 miles/some hills with a 97% to 32% power charge. Lost torque below 35%

Why were you riding all wet? :huh:

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3 hours ago, fryman said:

The weight of the rider and roads have a lot to do with distance.  With my massive 115 lbs (all wet) I went 40 miles/some hills with a 97% to 32% power charge. Lost torque below 35%

congratulations! u are one of the few the ks-16s was built for. 154-39=115pounds at 65psi.IMG_4839.PNG.2fd34e6ffa0a6b7ac91799b58f458a39.PNG

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On 1/1/2018 at 4:51 PM, electricpen said:

Following up on @Marty Backe and his disappointment in the KS-18s range I decided to do another 100-0% test on my KS-16s which I haven't done for a pretty long time, just in case I remembered wrong. I know I have been somewhat disappointed in the range of my 16s for quite some time. I start to get noticeable performance throttling as high as 40-50% battery. If you are using a charge doctor to start at 80% this doesn't give you very much "fun" range to play with. Below 35% the performance drops to just barely faster than a ninebot, around 15 mph. Below 15% you are limited to 12 mph.

So from 100-0% today I got 23.5 miles, approximately 2.5 hrs of riding. To be fair this is on the hills of San Francisco both up and down some fairly steep inclines over the course of the test. I generally only feel good about riding my KS-16s for about 10-15 miles most days. Once it starts to throttle your top speed it also starts to struggle to climb hills and does not take well to hitting bumps at speed. Since I live in an urban area full of steep hills I always feel these effects if I ride more than 5 miles one way since my home is on top of a giant hill.

So if I had double the battery (840 in my 16s to the 1680 of the 18s) I would have made 47 miles. This is almost exactly what Marty got I believe so I feel like those who have speculated one of the three battery packs may be disconnected are likely wrong. It really probably only goes ~45 miles if it is roughly double the endurance of my 16s.

Since I use my 16s primarily to commute 7 miles per day roughly the range does not stop it from fulfilling that primary function. However, it really is not enough to go on longer group rides or extended hill climbing as the battery starts to limit your performance to the point where you could not keep up with the group within a fairly short amount of time. That being said the wheel has been great for traveling around the city and I still have fun riding it - but it just turns out the practical usable range for me is so far below what is commonly described on this forum that I feel like people should be informed. If I'd known the range was that limited I might have chosen a different wheel instead.

What do you guys think? Are the riding conditions here (cold and hilly) making this more of an issue for me than for the average 16s owner? Or have others noticed this as well?

 

On 1/1/2018 at 4:51 PM, electricpen said:

Following up on @Marty Backe and his disappointment in the KS-18s range I decided to do another 100-0% test on my KS-16s which I haven't done for a pretty long time, just in case I remembered wrong. I know I have been somewhat disappointed in the range of my 16s for quite some time. I start to get noticeable performance throttling as high as 40-50% battery. If you are using a charge doctor to start at 80% this doesn't give you very much "fun" range to play with. Below 35% the performance drops to just barely faster than a ninebot, around 15 mph. Below 15% you are limited to 12 mph.

So from 100-0% today I got 23.5 miles, approximately 2.5 hrs of riding. To be fair this is on the hills of San Francisco both up and down some fairly steep inclines over the course of the test. I generally only feel good about riding my KS-16s for about 10-15 miles most days. Once it starts to throttle your top speed it also starts to struggle to climb hills and does not take well to hitting bumps at speed. Since I live in an urban area full of steep hills I always feel these effects if I ride more than 5 miles one way since my home is on top of a giant hill.

So if I had double the battery (840 in my 16s to the 1680 of the 18s) I would have made 47 miles. This is almost exactly what Marty got I believe so I feel like those who have speculated one of the three battery packs may be disconnected are likely wrong. It really probably only goes ~45 miles if it is roughly double the endurance of my 16s.

Since I use my 16s primarily to commute 7 miles per day roughly the range does not stop it from fulfilling that primary function. However, it really is not enough to go on longer group rides or extended hill climbing as the battery starts to limit your performance to the point where you could not keep up with the group within a fairly short amount of time. That being said the wheel has been great for traveling around the city and I still have fun riding it - but it just turns out the practical usable range for me is so far below what is commonly described on this forum that I feel like people should be informed. If I'd known the range was that limited I might have chosen a different wheel instead.

What do you guys think? Are the riding conditions here (cold and hilly) making this more of an issue for me than for the average 16s owner? Or have others noticed this as well?

I rather have the speed limit than a face plant.  But then again, it is user preference.  If the battery is low and the likely hood of it not be able to supply the juice at speeds then by all means limit it.  Also on group rides, if you need a bigger unit, get the 18S.  Also bring your fast charger with you.  You have to stop after a few hours of riding to eat and rest.  unless you are going the woods, i don't know why this is an issue.  I went on a group ride for a few hours and stopped after about 20km to eat and recharge in a restaurant.  

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:27 PM, Joker10 said:

I always thought my next wheel would be a ks16s, but the throttling has got me thinking more about Gotways now.  I’d rather have a fun ride for 85% than 50% of the battery.  Also with me weighing between upper 180s and 210 depending on what time of the year it is, I think I need more battery than 840wh.

i guess it comes down to safety vs speed limit.  you can choose to risk faceplanting with no limit as on the gotway's or a more safer wheel the king songs that will limit you when the battery is low and can''t supply the juice reliably.  there is also the option of charging after it gets low.  you do need to rest and eat.  just saying.  or get a unit with a larger battery like the 18S

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1 hour ago, Smoother said:

Wow, I didn't know a sense of humor weighed so much. Of course it's an expression, I was making a joke.:facepalm:

Lol, if you’re from England I didn’t know if you knew the expression  :P

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

congratulations! u are one of the few the ks-16s was built for. 154-39=115pounds at 65psi.IMG_4839.PNG.2fd34e6ffa0a6b7ac91799b58f458a39.PNG

I ride with 29psi

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2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

i guess it comes down to safety vs speed limit.  you can choose to risk faceplanting with no limit as on the gotway's or a more safer wheel the king songs that will limit you when the battery is low and can''t supply the juice reliably.  there is also the option of charging after it gets low.  you do need to rest and eat.  just saying.  or get a unit with a larger battery like the 18S

King Song: Keeping the "Fat" in Fat Unicyclist!

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4 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

marty, i'm ok with it the euc telling me it isn't safe to go more than 19mph on 35% charge.  i just stop and grab a bite to eat and recharge.  i rather the wheel tell me, hey not safe to go more than 19mph because the battery seems a little on the low side and can't supply the juice safely.  the other side of the euc coin is gotway, don't care, if you request the juice, it cannot provide, will serve you with a healthy portion of "faceplant".

I understand the reputation. For myself, I've never had a faceplant and have been able to still have lots of unregulated fun down to 20% battery. Different strokes for different folks.

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12 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

marty, i'm ok with it the euc telling me it isn't safe to go more than 19mph on 35% charge.  i just stop and grab a bite to eat and recharge.  i rather the wheel tell me, hey not safe to go more than 19mph because the battery seems a little on the low side and can't supply the juice safely.  the other side of the euc coin is gotway, don't care, if you request the juice, it cannot provide, will serve you with a healthy portion of "faceplant".

I second that thought.  Additionally, when is 19mph a "real" restriction.  Slow down and smell the roses.  I rarely go 19mph even on a full charge.  eBikes are limited by law in most countries to 15mph (powered) so an EUC that reduces your safe speed to 15mph when the battery is approaching a dangerously depleted state, does not seem to me to be that much of a hardship, especially when it is trying to prevent me from rearranging my face with concrete.  Additionally, where are you guys racing to in such a hurry on your group rides?  Hurrying is for commuting and airport runs; who hurries when on a pleasure ride? Additionally (2) the faster you go, the more you have to scan the road in front of you and see less of the beauty you have come to experience in the first place, on your for-pleasure-only group (or solo) ride.  When I watched that Rockwheel gt16 video recently, and the far east Tesla video where the guys come off at speed due, most likely to motor shut off, I thank the cool heads at King Song who made a corporate decision not to put their riders in a high speed cut off situation that could be, and often is, life-changing.

I can appreciate the pleasure of gliding at speed, but not all the time.  My car can go 150mph but I keep it under 90 most of the time.:D

Is King song fantastic? NO WAY! But I appreciate their responsible corporate philosophy, their axle designing skills...not so much.

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I am planning a distance test with my 18s using the greenway system in Raleigh.  The Neuse River Trail has a significant number of contiguous miles that should work perfectly.

Any advice or best practices?  Things you wish you did/had when you completed one?

 

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4 hours ago, Holt said:

I am planning a distance test with my 18s using the greenway system in Raleigh.  The Neuse River Trail has a significant number of contiguous miles that should work perfectly.

Any advice or best practices?  Things you wish you did/had when you completed one?

 

I always carry the tools necessary to refill the tire. Multiple times this has saved me from a long walk. Bring water.

And you should already have a feel for the mileage that you can get with your wheel. So use Google Maps/Earth to plan the route and error on the conservative side. Leave 20% battery to burn off when you get back. I'd rather have an extra 20% battery at the end than 0% 5-miles from the return.

If you find yourself running low on power and you don't think you'll make it back, slow down. You'll be amazed how many extra miles you can go at 7-mph.

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Thanks Marty!  Covered 45 miles in a little over 4 hours.  

Took battery from 99% to 10%.  Combination of rolling hills and twisty flat on the greenway asphalt trail.  45 degrees temp and breezy.

That is the longest ride (time and miles) I have completed.  My 18s has the larger battery pack and I have owned it for a month and 1/2.

I think the miles achieved are pretty good for a 6’ 200lbs guy with the amount of decently steep hills encountered.

Your statement on slow down to save battery is absolutely true.  We get accustined to cruising at speed and I am always amazed at how getting below 10mph not only saves power it is kind of nice to chill and slow roll.  It is still faster than walking!

This was the first time I had charged to 100%.  I have left the fast charger at 80% but upped it last night and unplugged once ran shut off.  The extra battery charge certainly helped.

Glad I did that.  Gives me a better appreciation for the euc and my 18s.

Edited by Holt
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12 minutes ago, Holt said:

Thanks Marty!  Covered 45 miles in a little over 4 hours.  

Took battery from 99% to 10%.  Combination of rolling hills and twisty flat on the greenway asphalt trail.  45 degrees temp and breezy.

That is the longest ride (time and miles) I have completed.  My 18s has the larger battery pack and I have owned it for a month and 1/2.

I think the miles achieved are pretty good for a 6’ 200lbs guy with the amount of decently steep hills encountered.

Your statement on slow down to save battery is absolutely true.  We get accustined to cruising at speed and I am always amazed at how getting below 10mph not only saves power it is kind of nice to chill and slow roll.  It is still faster than walking!

This was the first time I had charged to 100%.  I have left the fast charger at 80% but upped it last night and unplugged once ran shut off.  The extra battery charge certainly helped.

Glad I did that.  Gives me a better appreciation for the euc and my 18s.

Thanks for the report! I think this is about the range we would expect from the KS-18s. I just did a full 100%-10% on my KS-16s a couple weekends ago and it got about 23.5 miles with a couple pretty steep hill climbs. You got almost exactly double which sounds about right. 

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1 hour ago, electricpen said:

Your statement on slow down to save battery is absolutely true.  We get accustined to cruising at speed and I am always amazed at how getting below 10mph not only saves power it is kind of nice to chill and slow roll.  It is still faster than walking!

Wind resistance goes up 4 times for every doubling in speed.  So you are using 4 times more energy to overcome the wind, at 28mph vs 14mph (both achievable cruising speeds on your 18s) You probably won't get 4 times the range as other power consumption and efficiency considerations are going on at the same time, which are not dependent on wind resistance., 

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