RooEUC Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I'm not sure where you guys are getting the idea that Canadian chargers are different. My MiniPro, purchased from Amazon Canada shipped with the same 59.5v charger that USA customers receive. I expect my S1 to come with the same 59.5v charger. In Europe they ship with 63v chargers. The S2 (now sold as the S1 in North America) was mainly available outside of North America and so it shipped with the 63v charger. I still don't know why North Americans are given the special wimpy charger. The naming scheme and charger voltage differences around the world of both the S1/S2 and the MiniPro/Mini/MiniLite is such a giant b@lls up. Add on top of that Segway's terrible tech support and we have a really odd case of some truly brilliant products that are released and supported by confused, arrogant and sometimes dishonest people. It's no wonder so many people are confused about what they are actually buying. Even on this forum (which is generally a collection of very smart, well-meaning people, with a few exceptions) there is much confusion. Imagine how lost the average Amazon buyer is going to be (that's if they can even learn to ride it before sending it back and leaving 1 star out of spite). What I'm pretty sure of so far: The S1 is the same as the S2 sold in the UK/Western Europe The S1 has two batteries The S1 ships to customers in the USA and Canada with a 59.5v charger which charges the batteries to approximately 80% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said: The S1 has two batteries The S1 ships to customers in the USA and Canada with a 59.5v charger which charges the batteries to approximately 80% I wonder if the S1's battery is bigger than advertised, actually being around 6000mAh instead of 3000. The software displaying the battery information would seem to indicate so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 so according to the specs the s1 has 3 miles less range while carrying a 44lb lighter rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 so i’m guessing i have to use the three different chargers for three different but same battery size wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 40 minutes ago, novazeus said: so i’m guessing i have to use the three different chargers for three different but same battery size wheels? You should probably mark them as to which wheel they go to, so they don't get mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 59 minutes ago, novazeus said: so according to the specs the s1 has 3 miles less range while carrying a 44lb lighter rider. They both have the same nominal voltage, 54.3V, maybe if you used the 63V S2 charger on the S1, the extra charge would give it the same range as the S2. I guess if the BMS on the S1 allows the higher voltage, you could try it and see if it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 24 minutes ago, steve454 said: I guess if the BMS on the S1 allows the higher voltage, you could try it and see if it works. I must comment, whilst reading the rather surprising turn this thread has taken, that the BMS is what I have been wondering about? Most of the BMS designs I have seen are really clamping devices that start shunting current around individual cells once they reach full voltage. For a company to deliberately undercharge its batteries it must (one would REALLY hope!) have a much more sophisticated BMS which is going to maintain cell balance at any voltage. Otherwise undercharging is going to result in the cells slowly drifting more and more out of balance. Of course, if they have installed a clamp type BMS set to 4 volts per cell (4 x 15 cells =60 volts) then charging to 4.2v per cell is going to result in the BMS slowly discharging the cells again after the charger has been removed - I suspect a 4V/cell BMS is unlikely though? In fact my suspicion is that they haven’t bothered to put a more sophisticated BMS in at all and are relying on some cells simply clamping if they get out of balance enough to hit 4.2V? Interesting that they would sacrifice more than 20% of the range to idiot proof their EUC though, but having read some of the totally crap comments on YouTube videos about Lithium Ion batteries it becomes quite easy to see why they might do that ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Keith said: I must comment, whilst reading the rather surprising turn this thread has taken, that the BMS is what I have been wondering about? Most of the BMS designs I have seen are really clamping devices that start shunting current around individual cells once they reach full voltage. For a company to deliberately undercharge its batteries it must (one would REALLY hope!) have a much more sophisticated BMS which is going to maintain cell balance at any voltage. Otherwise undercharging is going to result in the cells slowly drifting more and more out of balance. Of course, if they have installed a clamp type BMS set to 4 volts per cell (4 x 15 cells =60 volts) then charging to 4.2v per cell is going to result in the BMS slowly discharging the cells again after the charger has been removed - I suspect a 4V/cell BMS is unlikely though? In fact my suspicion is that they haven’t bothered to put a more sophisticated BMS in at all and are relying on some cells simply clamping if they get out of balance enough to hit 4.2V? Interesting that they would sacrifice more than 20% of the range to idiot proof their EUC though, but having read some of the totally crap comments on YouTube videos about Lithium Ion batteries it becomes quite easy to see why they might do that ?. Now that you mentioned clamp type BMS, mine must have that, I hope. 61V charger only charges to about 4.07V per cell. But some people have over 4000 miles and a couple of years on their ninebots. I suspect they must balance at the lower voltage, or as you said, they would eventually drift more and more out of balance. And all this time, when the app would show 100%, I never realized that the batteries were not really at 100%. So no need for a charge doctor with a ninebot, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 bargain Christmas came early. this is what $680 bought me and i gotta say for all this tech, that’s quite a bargain. and woo woo, the 2nd 9bot1s1 wasn’t doa. the 9bot1 e+ is quite the machine. seems much more robust. all very pretty devices. i hope i don’t get yelled at but i posted all these pictures so people could see 9bot differences. like i noticed the e+ pedals are much larger and have less angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Nice collection! I still love my Ninebot One E+. It's been such a reliable wheel that has never let me down except when I ran out of juice 3/4 the way home on a round trip, but that was pushing my luck on a 22 km round trip with the second part uphill. If it only had more speed and range I would still be riding it as my main wheel as it just fits the legs so nicely. I wonder if anyone has tested to see if they can travel on a plane with their S1 with the battery packs taken onboard like laptop packs are allowed. Be sure to do the battery mod to help secure it on the Ninebot One E+ as they usually come loose inside from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 27 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Nice collection! I still love my Ninebot One E+. It's been such a reliable wheel that has never let me down except when I ran out of juice 3/4 the way home on a round trip, but that was pushing my luck on a 22 km round trip with the second part uphill. If it only had more speed and range I would still be riding it as my main wheel as it just fits the legs so nicely. I wonder if anyone has tested to see if they can travel on a plane with their S1 with the battery packs taken onboard like laptop packs are allowed. Be sure to do the battery mod to help secure it on the Ninebot One E+ as they usually come loose inside from the factory. yeah i’m impressed with all 9bot’s offerings. range and speed will never be an issue for me because I’m sure Bob will give out before the battery and i’m too old to go fast. last time i broke something, i had a hard time finding somebody that would put my ankle in a cast for cash(no insurance). btw i’ve gotten at least 50 robocalls about obamacare in the last two weeks. my affordable insurance plan would probably be $2000 a month, and i’m not gonna do what the doctors say, so why waste money. not aware of the e+ battery mod but i’ll look it up. the e+ is quite the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalEnigma Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 20 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: A few likely are coming onboard as there's a post for the $399 Amazon.ca Segway S1's on Redflagdeals (Canadian deals site) which seems to be gaining interest. I'm rugerty100 from over there. Decided to change my screen name recently. I was interested in EUCs, found this site and was planning on buying @RooMiniPro's Ninebot One E+. Looked around a bit more and found the IPS i5 he mentioned rather appealing. Ended up buying that, and shortly after my IPS i5 arrived, this Segway S1 went on sale. :/ Wish I waited just a bit longer, although I don't think anybody could've foreseen this sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Hey belated welcome to the EUC forums! The IPS i5 looks to be a good, portable wheel. I got into the whole hoverboard craze before all the fire issues, and I eventually got hooked on these EUCs and never looked back. In fact the hoverboards are sitting in my basement collecting dust. With these EUCs you really get the itch to upgrade after a while. I've been very happy with the Ninebot One E+ as it's a good all rounder wheel, and chatbox over at RFD had one too IIRC. Mine was on sale for $450 USD new, but after shipping costs, customs, and dollar conversions it came in at $800 CAD which was still good at the time. The S1 at $399 is smoking hot for what it is. Only drawback is it's a bit slower , no side pads, and the smaller wheel. There's always something newer and better down the line so it's all good. How are you liking the i5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalEnigma Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Thanks for the welcome! The IPS i5 is fairly nice, but I don't have anything to compare to. I've never tried any "hoverboards" either. It fits well into my backpack, but I'll probably refrain from doing that in these winter months. I purchased my wheel from Aliexpress just before it became available on ewheels.com. Might've been cheaper to get it from Jason, depending on how the duties are calculated. I don't think I'll be tempted to upgrade my wheel. I don't intend on using any protection, and beyond 20km/h I wouldn't feel too safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Ah a group 2 rider. It doesn't take too much to fall off these so veteran riders know it's wise to don protective gear. Others need that first bad fall before they get the message. Join the Skin Savers group before it's too late! We all say this is going to be my last wheel one wheel ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooEUC Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 16/12/2017 at 1:48 AM, EternalEnigma said: Thanks for the welcome! The IPS i5 is fairly nice, but I don't have anything to compare to. I've never tried any "hoverboards" either. It fits well into my backpack, but I'll probably refrain from doing that in these winter months. I purchased my wheel from Aliexpress just before it became available on ewheels.com. Might've been cheaper to get it from Jason, depending on how the duties are calculated. I don't think I'll be tempted to upgrade my wheel. I don't intend on using any protection, and beyond 20km/h I wouldn't feel too safe. I sold my E+ with the plan to wait for winter to pass before buying an I5. Then the S1 went on sale and I had to grab it. The E+ and MiniPro have been so reliable for me in terms of safety and I feel good about the S1 having the same safety reputation. Like you, I don't feel the need to wear safety gear when riding at 20kph away from traffic. I come from a long background in high power electric skateboards and now riding at what feels like jogging speed feels safe enough not to wear a helmet, at least at my age. As I get older and more fragile that will change. But I never, ever forget that a cut-out-induced fall is a possibility with this technology. I would be geared up with a helmet and wrist guards if I was riding the faster wheels that some of the people on this forum ride, but with the S1's calm pace and in the locations I use it, I don't feel the need for a helmet anymore than I do when going for a run. I want as compact a transport solution as possible and that means not carrying a helmet, gloves and knee pads around with me at my destination on top of the wheel itself, so it's a sacrifice I choose to make. If I rode a Gotway or IPS I might be more likely to gear up as my trust in them is slightly less. I would love to hear how you get on with the I5 the Ontario climate and streets. I still have a fond eye on that wheel. A lot of people here tell newbies who start with Ninebots that they will soon want a bigger, faster wheel. I think that's true for the majority but for me it wasn't. I just don't want to do 35+kph on a self balancing device. It's not worth the risk to me. Until they invent a mechanical failsafe that prevents the wheels from falling over in the event of an electrical fault, I will stick with doing 20kph. That's enough to get me where I need to go, at a comfortable pace, in a small package and with some fun along the way. I see some guys here riding wheels so large and so heavy that I wonder if they somewhat negate the main attraction, ie. compact personal transport. Before long some people will be riding 29" wheels that come with a step-stool to get on and need two men to lift into a trailer for transport. But we all have different tastes and I think any and all variations of this technology are very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooEUC Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 15/12/2017 at 12:15 PM, LanghamP said: I wonder if the S1's battery is bigger than advertised, actually being around 6000mAh instead of 3000. The software displaying the battery information would seem to indicate so. I am pretty sure each pack is not 6000mAh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, RooMiniPro said: I am pretty sure each pack is not 6000mAh. Sure not! The S1 has 310wh, means 2x155wh. These 155wh on 15cells work out to be 15 x 3,6 x 2900mah = 156,6wh! So i would guess its 2900mah each pack. 18650PF cells perhaps. Or , if you do it with 3,7 Volts it maybe: 15 x 3,7 x 2850mah = 158,17mah per side, would be the LG 18650MG cell then. Other numbers dont work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Whee, back in stock!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Whee, back in stock!! Just ordered! Thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, steve454 said: Just ordered! Thanks for the heads up! I thought you already had an S1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Just now, LanghamP said: I thought you already had an S1? No, I only have an E+. Want to see what the S1 is like. I missed the first sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalEnigma Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/16/2017 at 2:37 AM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Ah a group 2 rider. It doesn't take too much to fall off these so veteran riders know it's wise to don protective gear. Others need that first bad fall before they get the message. Join the Skin Savers group before it's too late! We all say this is going to be my last wheel one wheel ago... I figure it's not much different from falling while sprinting. Still haven't had my first fall yet, but I don't think much would change even after then. My winter jacket offers some protection for now though. The wheel is more of a Point A to Point B or "last-mile" solution than a hobby, so I feel like this quality portable wheel will last for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, steve454 said: No, I only have an E+. Want to see what the S1 is like. I missed the first sales. The lack of padding on the side confused me at first, especially for mounting or one-legged riding. However, by pointing your foot inward then the curve of your wheel will follow the curve of your shin bone, thereby allowing you to lock the wheel against your leg. Before figuring that out I found the S1 to be insanely difficult to mount. I'm waiting for @Marty Backe to buy one despite him already having the KS14 which of course is a far better wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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