Feeling cursed: Back-to-back faceplants with injuries

[Maximus]

1 minute ago, KingSong69 said:

Even when the Inmotion wheels are known for good quality...there are enough reports of fails on a V8, also. 100% faith might be a bit to much...no matter which which wheel. 

Fair enough.  I could have said "complete" faith.

My point was just to say that based upon my experience with the wheels that I own (V5F, V8, and KS-14C) that the Inmotion wheels have been reliable while the KS has created doubt for me.  I agree with your point that ALL brands can lead to falls and injuries.  I just wanted to give @WARPed1701D my impression of the V8 compared to the KS-14C.

[Pard]

 

Speedy recovery to the thread starter.  

If I am going over 12 mph, I treat the wheel like a motorcycle in terms of the need for all the gear all the time (ATGATT).

Below is an amazon shopping list if you want to ride hard and fast and avoid painful injury and downtime.

Full face BMX bicycle helmet

Wrist protectors with integrated full fingered gloves

Jacket with armor and abrasion resistance (you can find lighter weight versions)

Hip protection

Knee and shin protection

I wear above ankle boots to prevent a broken ankle.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046F2EYU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005M16QY6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KP7J98Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LMU22PW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8LVFC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Rehab1]

14 hours ago, Obly said:

Anyway, I'm feeling a little unsure .

14 hours ago, Obly said:

Right now I'm really wondering if I want to add even more risk by riding a wheel from a company we can't trust. Food for thought...

 

 So sorry about your injuriesI Happening twice is really tough. You need to hear some unbiased opinions from your family and friends to help clear your mind. Take your time! Even though there is no current issues with the monster's wiring, mosfets or firmware you may want to sit back for a few weeks and see how the investigation goes with the ACM and MSuper. 

[Spark]

Wish you a speedy recovery and that you break that string of bad luck and soon have fun riding again!
If there's one thing you can take away from all this unfortunate crap than it's your new helmet!

can't stress enough to always wear a fullface helmet when riding 
esp at speeds above 20kph there is no magic ninja roll and no running off either. 
Unlike a bicycle a failing EUC can eject you to the ground within a quarter rotation,
beyond what human reflexes are capable off even at low speeds.

As Pard also mentioned I think wearing motocycle boots (besides the usual mandatory stuff we all use) 
is also quite efficient to protect you from head to toe. 

[dmethvin]

Maybe I'm just lucky but all of my serious faceplants and accidents have been when I was a relative novice. I just don't push these wheels that much specifically because I know the upper limits are where the danger is. I have the KS-14C set to beep at 25kph and I back off when it beeps. I've ridden that wheel down to almost no battery on pretty steep hills and it hasn't thrown me off yet. When it gives me the low battery beep I'm even more cautious with accelerating and climbing.

[LanghamP]

OMG just had a collision with a pedestrian going at <1 mph. I could see this guy from a mile away as trouble.

--Crosses street with four kids.

--In the middle of a 35mph street.

--Well away from crosswalks.

--Does a 180 and rams into me face to face at a run.

--Has a strong foreign accent. We need more diversity especially from places that have their unique way of crossing streets and walking on sidewalks. 

It bothers me a lot that my MSuper has now been dropped. Before it had never touched the ground. It's not scratched even.

Post Script: OMG I have two corners slightly ground away. Not unscathed evidently.

[meepmeepmayer]

@LanghamP Is your wheel ok?!!!

[steve454]

14 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

OMG just had a collision with a pedestrian going at <1 mph. I could see this guy from a mile away as trouble.

--Crosses street with four kids.

--In the middle of a 35mph street.

--Well away from crosswalks.

--Does a 180 and rams into me face to face at a run.

--Has a strong foreign accent. We need more diversity especially from places that have their unique way of crossing streets and walking on sidewalks. 

It bothers me a lot that my MSuper has now been dropped. Before it had never touched the ground. It's not scratched even.

Was there one of those yellow caution signs with the picture of a family running?  If so, you have to watch out.  Just kidding lol.  They actually used to have those signs in California on the freeway going up from San Diego to LA.  Seemed a little weird.

[steve454]

27 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

-Does a 180 and rams into me face to face at a run.

Insurance scam?  Like this man ran into you on purpose?

[litewave]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

OMG just had a collision with a pedestrian going at <1 mph. I could see this guy from a mile away as trouble.

--Crosses street with four kids.

--In the middle of a 35mph street.

--Well away from crosswalks.

--Does a 180 and rams into me face to face at a run.

--Has a strong foreign accent. We need more diversity especially from places that have their unique way of crossing streets and walking on sidewalks. 

It bothers me a lot that my MSuper has now been dropped. Before it had never touched the ground. It's not scratched even.

Maybe he felt you might influence or somehow collide with his kids? Perhaps you should consider a stabilised action cam (worn on the helmet or a chest mount) to deter crazies or scammers, and to provide evidence should you need to defend yourself from false accusations. Still, I think the foreign accent is more coincidence than causality, unless he was an Australian rugby player. 

[MaxLinux]

On 6/30/2017 at 8:46 AM, Maximus said:

I think it's just a threshold thing like @Chriull was pointing out and unfortunately it's hard for a rider to predict when to backoff.

For me, when the wheel starts slowing down on a hill, instead of leaning harder and harder trying to make it maintain speed, I allow it to go slower, sometimes barely in motion. If the wheel is struggling, I'd rather slow down to a crawl than overwhelm the wheel. 

[MaxLinux]

On 6/30/2017 at 8:46 AM, Maximus said:

The biggest change for me is that I accelerate less violently and try to think more about the demands I am placing on the wheel and whether or not those demands match up with the capabilities of the wheel.

Excellent advice. I try to practice this always. Once in a while I violate it despite my best intentions, usually in traffic. For example, I accelerate much harder than I normally would to avoid a car, get out of an intersection when the signal changes when I'm halfway across, or similar situation. Afterwards I think how grateful I am that the wheel THIS TIME provided a huge power surge without a problem. On hills though, I've been very consistent in remembering not to overload the wheel. I've actually had the wheel come to a stop on very tough hills, which is disappointing when it happens, but much better than a burned out wheel or a faceplant.

[Obly]

Thanks all--appreciate the support! The great community is a real high point of EUCs right now (and thank goodness, to help balance out some of the rougher aspects).

On 6/30/2017 at 0:59 AM, The Fat Unicyclist said:

I'm looking at am upgrade similar to yours, and mine will include something like this...

http://www.thegearcaster.com/2016/09/all-mountain-helmets-with-detachable-chin-bar.html

Thanks for this (and thanks to others too for the helpful helmet discussion). I'm seriously thinking about something like this, for sure. I wear a bike helmet while riding, and it never touched the ground in either of these accidents. Others have reported a similar experience. It's got me thinking about how bike helmets are a mismatch for EUC riding. And it makes sense: when cycling you ride hunched over, almost crouched, with your head pointed forward and a high center of gravity. So in a sudden stop (collision or some such), you tend to launch off head first, Superman style, with a high rotation that makes it likely to strike near the top of your head. So that's where all the protection is with a bike helmet.

But you ride a EUC standing up, with a low center of gravity, so in a sudden stop, you rotate from your feet, metronome style. So hitting the top of your head isn't that likely; you're more likely to strike your face (as I discovered), or the back of your head if you're falling backwards--two places bike helmets don't really protect. Skate helmets do a better job covering the latter, but aren't designed to protect against high-speed impacts (typical skateboards don't go 15-20 mph).

So yeah, definitely, something closer to a motocross helmet is looking more appealing. But it's got to have a wide field of vision and it can't obstruct hearing too much. I'm concerned about that; seems like these helmets tend to be designed for technical riding on (more or less) closed courses, where you can afford to concentrate just on what's in front of you. We have to contend with traffic approaching from the side and rear as well.

If anyone has been wearing something like this and can comment on how much it affects your view and hearing, I'd be really interested to hear it.

[Obly]

On 6/30/2017 at 1:35 AM, Marty Backe said:

Wow, sorry to hear about your escapades with the ground  Since my ACM and MSuper are out of commission just now I've been doing a lot KS14C riding. I've never had mine cut out on me (knock of wood). It's a great wheel.

That's some jump, moving from a 14" to 22" wheel  Please don't give up on the Monster. There have been no indications that the Monster was affected by the recent firmware debacle. I would hate to see you pass on the opportunity to ride such a great wheel. I own one BTW and it's never let me down - I think I have about 600 miles on it now.

Just give it time. I've had a few bad experiences which made me feel a little uneasy riding again. But within a week or so that passes.

You didn't say if you wear protection (although that might not have helped in these two cases). But wearing quality protective equipment can go a long ways to providing peace of mind. Actually, let me amend this last paragraph. Buy a quality full face helmet. There are some really nice light weight versions available and they would have prevented your face injuries.

I don't know your riding style, but do you ride with bent knees all the time. Were your knees bent when this last accident occurred. I say that because with bent knees it's much less likely that you will literally face-plant.

Stay with us 

P.s. Great story BTW, and thanks for sharing it 

Thanks Marty, I appreciate it. Yep, your Monster recommendation was a big reason I decided to go with it. I'm leaning towards keeping it and giving it a go, since it seems like (if the hardware & software are sound), it'll just generally be a sturdier, safer wheel for long road touring than the KS14C. But yeah, I'm sure it will be like learning from scratch again (ugh ).

I went on a long ride Saturday (still on the KS). It was a little rough. My average speed was 4 mph slower than usual, and I ended with uncomfortable pain in my back and leg muscles, which normally doesn't happen, so I know I was overly tense and not able to relax. I was also overcautious on hills; I even got off and walked up one when my EUC crawled to a stop and I couldn't bring myself to push it harder (still had > 60% battery, so maybe silly, but it was a long 11% grade stretch and I got nervous).

I do wear good quality knee, elbow, and wrist protection all the time, but I'm definitely thinking about upgrading the helmet.

Hmm... how much bend in your knees do you mean? Not sure I could sustain a deep bend for a long ride. Although I can see how that would position you better to direct a fall more to your pads--definitely a good thing.

[ScooterBX]

I am so sorry to learn about these accidents (and so many others). I rode an electric unicycle with great enthusiasm in 2015. Then I got stopped by the police. Had to pay 100 Dollars and was registered for illegal driving on public ground with my fantastic TG-F3 unicycle. I fell two times, once on a steep ramp (my fault), the other time on a rather flat ridge while avoiding a mother with a buggy. It happened so fast that I could not react in any way. I didn’t damage or break anything on my body, I was lucky. I rode the wheel for some more weeks with helmet and kneepads. No real fun. Not the real thing. All that led to my decision: electric unicycles, no matter cheap ones or expensive, are too dangerous and too much a hassle with the regulations and I quit this hobby. It just is not worth the hassle and even more not worth the danger! I can only appeal to everybody: quit electric unicycle riding. Maybe one day the manufacturers will build in enough safety (double circuits, double logic, fail-safe), and then I would love to step on again. In the meantime the countries need to clarify the regulations for electric unicycles. But for now I consider the whole thing a Russian Roulette. I bought myself an e-bike, yes it’s not the magic of an electric unicycle, but I looove it :-)

Greetings to everyone from Berlin, Germany. 

[Obly]

On 6/30/2017 at 9:37 AM, LanghamP said:

We should create a KS14c group with members who have recently faceplanted as I crashed about a week ago. No bruises, mild road rash. I, however, did not have a cutout which makes ALL the difference in the world.

I don't know what to tell you about cars zooming into the crosswalk. I've bailed more than a few times in intersection when cars make that right hand turn (presumably). I mean, I bailed twice two days ago from that.

Sometimes I walk the wheel across but that doesn't help much as I've had to jump back from cars going into the pedestrian crosswalk. Often they honk at me while swerving around me. Pedestrians aren't common; most days during my commute I will not encounter a single pedestrian.

Ugh... glad you're ok. I have yet to attempt riding in a truly urban setting. It has a certain appeal, to be sure, but I feel endangered enough as a pedestrian when trying to get around a city. Trying to do it while riding squirrely, no-safety-backup, alien technology (to the motorists and cyclists all around you)? Guess I'm not enough of a thrill seeker to want to try that.

[Obly]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:36 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

Hm, get well better and make sure you really don't have any hidden head or neck injuries from hitting your head and almost passing out.

My thoughts while reading:

• wear better (stronger/harder) shoes
• looks like you need a stronger wheel (seems you already did that, but maybe not the best choice for peace of mind)
• Does the 14C not have an 80% warning or so? Or was the needed power surge so big it had no chance anyways and it just was overpowered so quickly?

I'm debating about the shoes. On the one hand, it seems something like steel-toed shoes might help, by absorbing more of the impact with the road without compressing your toes. But on the other, your toes are still going to slide forward forcefully in a typical crash, and won't slamming your toes into a steel toe box hurt just as much as hitting the road anyway? Anyone have more thoughts on this?

I'm surprised about the lack of warning too. On the rare occasion that I've drained the battery a substantial amount lower than the limit KS recommends (55V or so), my 14C beeped assertively if I tried to go above a very slow speed. That gave me some (false, I guess) confidence that there was decent monitoring of power draws vs. remaining capacity. But like you said, maybe it was just too much, too fast.

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Obly said:

I'm debating about the shoes. On the one hand, it seems something like steel-toed shoes might help, by absorbing more of the impact with the road without compressing your toes. But on the other, your toes are still going to slide forward forcefully in a typical crash, and won't slamming your toes into a steel toe box hurt just as much as hitting the road anyway? Anyone have more thoughts on this?

I'm surprised about the lack of warning too. On the rare occasion that I've drained the battery a substantial amount lower than the limit KS recommends (55V or so), my 14C beeped assertively if I tried to go above a very slow speed. That gave me some (false, I guess) confidence that there was decent monitoring of power draws vs. remaining capacity. But like you said, maybe it was just too much, too fast.

Feet injures from riding crashes has to be very rare. I would opt for comfort and lighter weight shoes that will increase your odds of running out a wheel cutout (depending on your speed of course). The more steps that you can take before finally hitting the ground will substantially help in reducing the energy from your fall.

[Obly]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:54 AM, Maximus said:

I have 100% faith in the V8 and V5F, which is why my kids ride those (primarily).

The 14C was too good of a deal to pass up, but I think of that wheel as an "old" wheel, so while the specs may be slightly better in terms of speed and range than the V8, I think of the 14C as driving my antique plow truck, so I take it slow, don't ask too much of her and she'll do the job.  If I beat on her too much (slam into snow banks or jump off curbs/accelerate too quickly in the case of the EUC) she'll break down and leave me stranded (or face down).  Others have had great results with the 14C, so I don't want to make it sound like it its junk, I actually have so much faith in the KingSong reputation that the 16S is my next wheel, but Inmotion, for me, is the most reliable.  If they offered a wheel with more speed and range (i.e. a V10?), then I'd be purchasing it, no question.

This is interesting; thanks for this insight! I haven't yet ridden anything but the 14C so have no basis for comparison, but I've definitely found it to be a twitchy wheel--naturally hard riding mode, I guess? It feels more wobbly over bumps and road unevenness, or even just shifting my feet, than I'd like, especially at higher speed. It's got lots of power though; I don't worry about that (or didn't). My main worry about beating on it has mostly been a fear of cracking the axle (something a lot of people have reported with this model), so yep, I definitely avoid big drops, curbs, things like that.

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, Obly said:

Thanks Marty, I appreciate it. Yep, your Monster recommendation was a big reason I decided to go with it. I'm leaning towards keeping it and giving it a go, since it seems like (if the hardware & software are sound), it'll just generally be a sturdier, safer wheel for long road touring than the KS14C. But yeah, I'm sure it will be like learning from scratch again (ugh ).

I went on a long ride Saturday (still on the KS). It was a little rough. My average speed was 4 mph slower than usual, and I ended with uncomfortable pain in my back and leg muscles, which normally doesn't happen, so I know I was overly tense and not able to relax. I was also overcautious on hills; I even got off and walked up one when my EUC crawled to a stop and I couldn't bring myself to push it harder (still had > 60% battery, so maybe silly, but it was a long 11% grade stretch and I got nervous).

I do wear good quality knee, elbow, and wrist protection all the time, but I'm definitely thinking about upgrading the helmet.

Hmm... how much bend in your knees do you mean? Not sure I could sustain a deep bend for a long ride. Although I can see how that would position you better to direct a fall more to your pads--definitely a good thing.

I just mean a slight bend. Some people ride with locked or nearly locked knees - like they are standing. I always ride with slightly bent needs. This increases the odds that you will roll as you crash. Every time I've fallen from the wheel (trail riding) I've ended up on my back eventually, because of a twist that develops as you are falling, because your legs weren't straight at the beginning.

This does mean that you get more of a leg workout when riding, which is good. After two hours of riding I can really feel the workout in my legs.

[WARPed1701D]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Feet injures from riding crashes has to be very rare. I would opt for comfort and lighter weight shoes that will increase your odds of running out a wheel cutout (depending on your speed of course). The more steps that you can take before finally hitting the ground will substantially help in reducing the energy from your fall.

I agree that steel toecaps would be too much. Maybe consider about getting some above ankle hiking boots. Fabric ones generally have rubber coming up and over the toes for protection but the high lacing up the ankle will arrest you foot before it moves too far forward in the boot for toe impact. Nice walking socks would help too for shock absorption. The added bonus of this is likely nicely padded ankles next to the EUC body for comfort and some ankle reinforcement against breaks and twists. Fabric boots are generally pretty lightweight so you could get a run going if needed/possible.

This is theory of course. I'm still waiting for my first wheel to arrive but will be wearing my walking boots while riding. They are leather and so heavier than I'd like but should do the job.

[Marty Backe]

30 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I agree that steel toecaps would be too much. Maybe consider about getting some above ankle hiking boots. Fabric ones generally have rubber coming up and over the toes for protection but the high lacing up the ankle will arrest you foot before it moves too far forward in the boot for toe impact. Nice walking socks would help too for shock absorption. The added bonus of this is likely nicely padded ankles next to the EUC body for comfort and some ankle reinforcement against breaks and twists. Fabric boots are generally pretty lightweight so you could get a run going if needed/possible.

This is theory of course. I'm still waiting for my first wheel to arrive but will be wearing my walking boots while riding. They are leather and so heavier than I'd like but should do the job.

High ankle boots can certainly help protect the ankles when learning (I used them). But now I prefer light weight walking shoes (running shoes in my case).

[meepmeepmayer]

Firm soles and a reasonably firm rest should be enough. Just not some ultra light summer cloth shoes, flip flops, or something like that.

[LanghamP]

I occasionally use these.

Thorogood 814-4200 American Heritage 6" Moc Toe Boot, Tobacco, 9.5 2E US https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O9SA3I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_OSOwzbNB92RW6

 

[dmethvin]

5 hours ago, Obly said:

I haven't yet ridden anything but the 14C so have no basis for comparison, but I've definitely found it to be a twitchy wheel--naturally hard riding mode, I guess? It feels more wobbly over bumps and road unevenness, or even just shifting my feet, than I'd like, especially at higher speed. It's got lots of power though; I don't worry about that (or didn't). My main worry about beating on it has mostly been a fear of cracking the axle (something a lot of people have reported with this model), so yep, I definitely avoid big drops, curbs, things like that.

A 14-inch wheel is going to be more agile than a 16-inch one. Coming from my 16-inch Firewheel as a "daily driver" I can say I like the KS14C  better because it rides more firmly and is agile in tight spaces like crowds. The stronger motor and bigger battery probably has a lot to do with that. Yes, the axle worries me too but I baby it and don't jump off big drops.