Begode ET MAX Announcement

[WheelGoodTime]

33 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I hope they go back to that wide tire they advertised originally. That was a massive different thing for this wheel. 

If they use this tire for the mass production model, it will be a huge problem. A 1" total tire diameter difference will measure significantly different on the EUC's speedometer, and much more importantly, the tire diameter isn't wide enough for a rider to go up a curb. Instead, riders will smash against the bottom corners of teh batter box.

This will be a huge problem if they don't deliver on the tire size that was originally promised.

[BleepBloopBlop]

Ooops just realized I posted this in the ET Max thread and not the GT Pro thread. My bad.

 

[The Brahan Seer]

Stairs and jumps...

 

[Robse]

28 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Stairs and jumps...

 

looks like he's riding a flat tire.....🙄

[The Brahan Seer]

Roll up! roll up! get your ET Max here.....

 

[Cerbera]

Thrilling to know there is one just 40 mins drive away from me ! I like Kevin and those e-rides guys - may well buy from them next time round...

But no hurry from me at all - I have at least 2 or 3 batches and revisions before I have to decide between the ET max and the Lynx...

 

[ORDO NOVUS]

front handle interferes with knees when accelerating

[Panzer04]

8 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Thrilling to know there is one just 40 mins drive away from me ! I like Kevin and those e-rides guys - may well buy from them next time round...

But no hurry from me at all - I have at least 2 or 3 batches and revisions before I have to decide between the ET max and the Lynx...

 

What's the draw of the Lynx if you already have a Master? They seem to mostly have the same capabilities, weight, and range.. I guess the Master is probably a bit slower, if anything? I suppose that's the main draw of the ET max, at least.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Panzer04 said:

What's the draw of the Lynx if you already have a Master? They seem to mostly have the same capabilities, weight, and range..

Higher build quality, better, trouble-free suspension / bearings, better long-term availability of spares, less ongoing maintenance (I would hope), more grounded, less wind-susceptible ride experience, and just wanting to try something by a different manufacturer, having mostly had Gotway / Begodes up til now. The ET I am interested in mainly because it's another few generations on with suspension, has much more substantial battery cases and not to mention - I just really like the look of it.

It's not that I don't like the Master - I definitely do, and I can't imagine that I will ever be unhappy with the levels of range, power and torque it effortlessly dispenses - I just doubt its longevity, and it frustrates me quite a bit just how susceptible I am to wind on that machine, and it seems that both Lynx and ET Max have much lower CoG so should be better in that respect... that's quite a biggie for me as this country seems almost permanently windy these days.

I know, I know, there are lower pedal hangers available, and will probably try those first, and will keep the Master going as long as I feasibly can, but the lure of something new and latest generation is gonna win eventually !

 

Edited February 14 by Cerbera

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

3 hours ago, Panzer04 said:

What's the draw of the Lynx if you already have a Master? They seem to mostly have the same capabilities, weight, and range..

Higher build quality, better, trouble-free suspension / bearings, better long-term availability of spares, less ongoing maintenance

Also, one may appreciate the more refined and premium feel of the Lynx.

For myself, as nice as the S22 is currently as a suspension wheel, I am still drawn to my Abrams refined and premium feel, in addition to its engaging chassis dynamics for road use.

Often, it is hard to tell until one spends some time on both wheels, and then ride back-to-back for some time. Eventually, one can form some opinions and biases toward each wheel.

At the moment, I think I haven't really found an upgrade to my Abrams, but rather a different kind of riding experience, where both are enjoyable.

Edited February 14 by techyiam

[Panzer04]

21 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Also, the more refined and premium feel may be appreciated.

For myself, as nice as the S22 is currently as a suspension wheel, I am still drawn to my Abrams refined and premium feel, in addition to its engaging chassis dynamics for road use.

Often, it is hard to tell until one spends some time on both wheels, and then ride back-to-back for some time. Eventually, one can forms some opinions and biases toward each wheel.

At the moment, I think I haven't really found an upgrade to my Abrams, but rather a different kind of riding experience, where both are enjoyable.

I've ridden Lynxes for a few minutes each, which is hardly enough to say I've got a real feel for it, but I didn't find it felt revolutionarily different. It felt different, but not different enough that I'd want to buy 70% more for it.. I do think that people who spent 4k on an EUC that's barely an upgrade in performance and somewhat of an upgrade in "look"/"feel" have somewhat of a vested interest in justifying said purchase though :P.

So this isn't a total derailment, I do find the ET max a weird wheel. I guess there's a lot of people who mostly ride street that really want that extra 15kph top speed or whatever it ends up being? If it had been 10kg lighter it would be a total slam dunk, but at 50kg I just don't see it :/. I suppose that's just my disinterest in going much faster than 80kph showing? If it had been in the region of 40-42kg it would have had a claim as being a strictly-better Master, but at 50kg it's sort of a sidegrade :/

Edited February 14 by Panzer04

[Julianjc84]

ET MAX is just a Master V4 with increased suspension travel. and 'maybe better geometry'

Master is too good $ value for the price with 3rd party upgrades.

 

[techyiam]

57 minutes ago, Julianjc84 said:

ET MAX is just a Master V4 with increased suspension travel. and 'maybe better geometry'

This video posted by Kevin at e-rides may have something more to say.

 

[Panzer04]

1 hour ago, Julianjc84 said:

ET MAX is just a Master V4 with increased suspension travel. and 'maybe better geometry'

Master is too good $ value for the price with 3rd party upgrades.

 

Wheels aren't that complex, not surprising et max looks like their other wheels but with tweaks. I'd expect all of these improvements to trickle down to cheaper wheels, nothing fundamentally more expensive here - that price tag is pure gravy for Begode, they see LK charging 4k and people paying it and want in. A couple hundred extra BOM cost at absolute most, tack on another 1.5-2k onto the price. If they cut the battery size it'd be even less.

Their real problem is Masters going as cheap as they are, basically cuts off most of the higher end market for the price conscious

Edited February 14 by Panzer04

[techyiam]

7 hours ago, Panzer04 said:

I've ridden Lynxes for a few minutes each, which is hardly enough to say I've got a real feel for it, but I didn't find it felt revolutionarily different. It felt different, but not different enough that I'd want to buy 70% more for it.. I do think that people who spent 4k on an EUC that's barely an upgrade in performance and somewhat of an upgrade in "look"/"feel" have somewhat of a vested interest in justifying said purchase though :P.

Then you are in luck. You can save yourself a whole bunch of money.  

As for myself, I am kind of content with the motor performance of both my S22 and Abrams. Accelerating and braking is good enough for my type of riding. Additionally, at this point in time, I don't really need more than 70 km/h top speed, just more headroom.

Moreover, now that I have own and ridden my T3, V12, Abrams, and S22 for a while and back-to-back along the same routes, I have come to realize what traits in a wheel that I would appreciate more. For me, a refined and premium feel is high on my list, since motor performance and top speed of any of the new performance wheels would be more than I need. I also care about long term durability, waterproofing, and serviceability. I also value that safety was in the minds of the engineers when the wheel was being designed. QC is also very important to me.

I haven't own a Begode performance wheel yet. However, the ET Max does look interesting.

I had a brief roll on an Extreme at a dealer, and my initial impression was positive. But my affinity was more towards the Lynx. Aside from the ride feel, I also like the way my V12 and Abrams are built, and serviced. I think Begode is catching up, and closer and closer with each new wheel release, but I still have to see some teardowns to see where they are now at.

7 hours ago, Panzer04 said:

I do find the ET max a weird wheel. I guess there's a lot of people who mostly ride street that really want that extra 15kph top speed or whatever it ends up being? If it had been 10kg lighter it would be a total slam dunk, but at 50kg I just don't see it :/. I suppose that's just my disinterest in going much faster than 80kph showing? If it had been in the region of 40-42kg it would have had a claim as being a strictly-better Master, but at 50kg it's sort of a sidegrade :/

I see the ET Max from a different perspective.

I do not do group rides, so top speeds are meaningless to me. For me, anything over 80 km/h is for the open road, which is something I rarely do. As for weight, I come to learn that I am OK with the Abrams' 100 lbs. weight, even for short rides. The weight doesn't bother me. But I don't need to lift up the Abrams. I am also interested in the 110 lbs V13.

What interest me in the ET Max is in the advancement Begode has made to their performance wheels.

I will be interested in the quality of the electronics, waterproofing, sliders, linkage, shock, build-quality, parts quality, refinement, and QC, along with Samsung 50S cells, smart BMS, light alloy chassis, and etc.

Someone just posted his recently received Extreme that has a shock stuck at the slowest rebound damping setting. This is what I consider bad QC.

Something that Kevin brought to light in his ET Max First Look Video is that the stanchions looked to be coated. 

I am liking the ET Max so far based on a quick look provided by Kevin's video.

I lost all interest in the Master now.

Edited February 14 by techyiam

[Rawnei]

They drastically need to come up with improvements or changes for their slider system, it's the big weakpoint of their suspension solution, so many problems and so much wear requires a lot of maintenance, huge turnoff IMO.

[techyiam]

55 minutes ago, Panzer04 said:

Wheels aren't that complex, not surprising et max looks like their other wheels but with tweaks. I'd expect all of these improvements to trickle down to cheaper wheels, nothing fundamentally more expensive here - that price tag is pure gravy for Begode, they see LK charging 4k and people paying it and want in.

It is like saying the Porche 911 is a Volkswagen Beetle with tweaks. They both have air-cooled engines behind the rear axle.  

1 hour ago, Panzer04 said:

A couple hundred extra BOM cost at absolute most, tack on another 1.5-2k onto the price.

Pure speculation on your part.

Roger is one of many racers who have made modifications to his and others Masters. I would think he and others are pretty familiar with the Master. And yet, he has openly stated he is interested in getting a ET Max.

Incidentally, what type of mods have you done to Masters, if any? You seemingly coming across if you have in depth knowledge and experience.

[techyiam]

19 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

They drastically need to come up with improvements or changes for their slider system, it's the big weakpoint of their suspension solution, so many problems and so much wear requires a lot of maintenance, huge turnoff IMO.

Does your comment include the ET Max sliders. If yes, is it not too early to condemn it without knowing more. We haven't seen the bushings nor the tolerances yet. Plus, with wet-lubricated sliders, the price will shoot up even higher.

Based on what is already out, which linkage suspension wheel has the best sliders to date?

[Rawnei]

Just now, techyiam said:

Does your comment include the ET Max sliders. If yes, is it not too early to condemn it without knowing more. We haven't seen the bushings nor the tolerances yet. Plus, with wet-lubricated sliders, the price will shoot up even higher.

Based on what is already out, which linkage suspension wheel has the best sliders to date?

It's the same on all of the Begode wheels, ET Max being no exception.

There are 2 main problems:

One is that there is several places where screws can be too tight causing sliders to lock up or perform worse, possibly this could come down to tolerances but the whole system relies on a bunch of different screws having the perfect tightness.

The second one is that dirt easily comes into the bushings from the top causing various problems, this could be at least partly remedied with some sort of wiper but the problem is compounded by the direction of the sliders combined with really crappy fender solution spraying dirt everywhere in the wheel well, a wiper and better fender seems at least like low hanging fruit to help with that.

Every single Begode suspension wheel owner I know had/has problems because of these things and it's very common to see Facebook posts about these issues asking for help how to maintain it.

The alarming thing that I see is that they just settled for this overall slider design and stopped making improvements on it, we just see various changes on the linkages (which are still not quite there).

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

It's the same on all of the Begode wheels, ET Max being no exception.

Your speculation may turned out to be true. But I'll wait for the Eco-Drift Life teardown video.

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Your speculation may turned out to be true. But I'll wait for the Eco-Drift Life teardown video.

You can already see it in the erides video.

[Julianjc84]

40 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Does your comment include the ET Max sliders. If yes, is it not too early to condemn it without knowing more. We haven't seen the bushings nor the tolerances yet. Plus, with wet-lubricated sliders, the price will shoot up even higher.

Its a BEGODE.
there is no way there are wet bushing. its impossible to fit them. these stanchion sliders are just black anodized. They are 100% the same as past models.
red marks indicate where the graphite, brass bushing sit. Just maybe they are using nylon teflon But the grub screw for the bushings makes this very very unlikely.

Edited February 14 by Julianjc84

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, Julianjc84 said:

there is no way there are wet bushing.

That's what I said. But we don't know the tolerances.

The problem with wet-lubed sliders is that it doesn't make economic sense not to add a damping circuit and a spring.

 

For linkage suspension, there still isn't a good slider that we are sure of. Supposedly, the V14 sliders are better, but no one has shown how good they really are yet.

Edited February 14 by techyiam

[Panzer04]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

It is like saying the Porche 911 is a Volkswagen Beetle with tweaks. They both have air-cooled engines behind the rear axle.  

Pure speculation on your part.

Roger is one of many racers who have made modifications to his and others Masters. I would think he and others are pretty familiar with the Master. And yet, he has openly stated he is interested in getting a ET Max.

Incidentally, what type of mods have you done to Masters, if any? You seemingly coming across if you have in depth knowledge and experience.

600wh battery is 100$ in volume, all of the machinining must be done either way - the marginal cost of the longer suspension, different linkage shapes etc would be near zero. The cost of the higher voltage motherboard would also be fairly small, if it's more expensive at all, as they pretty much just need higher voltage caps and MOSFETs (assuming the old board was designed for eg. 150V max).

I have done no serious mods to my master at this point, although I have mulled over a suspension extension (either diy or kit).

[Planemo]

14 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The problem with wet-lubed sliders is that it doesn't make economic sense not to add a damping circuit and a spring.

True, but if Begode etc want to stick with a linkage/separate shock system (which does have its benefits) then my answer would be to simply use a similar setup to the FastAce Sherman but effectively run empty stanchions. Job done.

The current open, dry lube setup is shit, no question. Sugar coating the stanchions without running a proper seal + oil sponge is like putting a plaster on an open fracture.