Leaperkim Lynx 2700wh: 151V, 20" tire, suspension, 89lb

[Stickysock]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:07 PM, The Brahan Seer said:

To be fair motorcycles use these types of LCD and are very common even up to 2019 and is probably still used in some models. Although the latest tech is colour TFT LCD which would be nice but then the cost of the wheel would be even higher.

My $12k zero motorcycle uses this screen. They are easy to read in all settings and have very little to go wrong. Makes complete sense being on a leaperkim wheel where function matter more than form.

[Rawnei]

11 minutes ago, jmsjms said:

Are there any other wheels that can operate without a fully functioning hall sensor?

The S22 has this as well, it's just a backup until you stop then it stops balancing.

[Stickysock]

16 minutes ago, jmsjms said:

Are there any other wheels that can operate without a fully functioning hall sensor?

Most controllers can operate without hall sensors at a lower efficiency. Hall sensors give more resolution at lower RPMS + a noise generator so it knows where the correct phases are at 0rpm. Once the rotor is moving the pulses are frequent enough for the controller to know where AaBbCc windings are.

*Other EUCs controllers must have both methods of operation to do this. After sinewave became common a lot of ebike controllers defaulted to starting with halls and running sensorless after gaining speed.*

Back in the day we ran square wave sensor less motors, they would stall and cog if you didn't get them rotating first. Same technology here on EUCs just sinewave and hall sensored

Edited November 13, 2023 by Stickysock

[novazeus]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:24 PM, Jason McNeil said:

According to LK, on the Lynx they've got this 'field weakening' feature to reduce the electromagnetic field strength at faster RPMs. Evidentally, one of the side-effects of this is that PWM margin is not the same as on the Patton/SS.  

"Firmware of Lynx has adopted with Field Weakening technology, which has great step compare to technology on old models. In Lynx, when you hear beeping, that can be meansured as 75% power alarm of old models 
So respect power alarm instead of pwm on APP"

On the tubeless tire front: they've got a 6ply tire, the same Longxin 841 as is used on the V11Y production, tread is identical to the Kenda 340A this will be tested tomorrow. Going tubeless would be a major win for reducing the frequency of flats/tube issues—on motorcycles/eScooters the reduction in flats is like well over >90%.  

 

just tossing this out there, as an idea emanating from common sense. as soon as u deliver the wheel to me, whatever disassembly required to install the michelin pilot street 2 tire in 80/90 14 on it, that's what i'm gonna do. 

idk what goes into building a wheel and idk if a tire has to be installed so it can be tested, so please excuse my ignorance. but this leaperkim lynx "pro" kit could be a new concept in wheels. do like my old hobby of online ordering rc heli kits and parts from all over the world in 1999, 

and from a legal standpoint in ambulance chasing attorney land of the good ol usa.

if possible, and trust me, i have plenty to do, but could leaperkim send mine to me kinda like a kit and they can keep their tire, i have two michelins incoming for less than a hundred bucks. just mount a tubeless valve on the rim, (Mod edit: edited out), surely China can get one stinking michelin tire in the country to see if it fits, and i'm wiling to be the first guinea pig to receive the "pro" racing version kit. 

sb smart litigiously and very cost effective shipping and packing wise, plus save me time which i've come to find out is the most valuable thing. 

and i've never actually put a tire on a rim of any kind, always went to someone with better tools, but i'll figure it out, better than wasting money on a s18 just like u sell with a pos jiluer tire on it!

i'm patient, i'll wait for the kit version.

i'm also going to order this "KIT", and may eventually build a vtol vertiport here. i think jason u might find this interesting, and this helps members understand mobility and surveillance issues with a cow/calf ranch such as mine. totally tax deductible in my use case, as are the wheels.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by meepmeepmayer

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

No beeps though? According to Linnea there is a static PWM alarm at 75% PWM.

 

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

In Lynx, when you hear beeping, that can be meansured as 75% power alarm of old models 
So respect power alarm instead of pwm on APP"

Ronin should have continued to accelerate to a higher speed until he hears the 75% power alarm beeping?

Or should he goes faster for a top speed run?

When does the dynamic tilt back come into play on the Lynx?

EDIT:

Never mind. Roger is pushing the Lynx on Marty's Lynx. I guess we will find out the details soon enough. Apparently, Roger posted that he's already gone 55 mph on 50% battery on 50E cells.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by techyiam

[novazeus]

me on my 120 pound inmotion v13, no spikes or grip tape on the pedals, only reason pads are on is because i took the yoga mats off and don't like crying if i dropped it on my test track, because i hate pads. i hate the wheel touching my legs unless i'm bending it in a turn. i grew up in florida. the only way i can create that "hang ten" feeling, sliding down a face of a wave, is with this michelin running at 47psi cold. i want that in spades in the lynx. 

and this particular path is rougher, i hope, than anything any rider is gonna ride on. because if i fall out here, it's just funny to me, but falling on rocky mountain trails, like marty does, not so much, marty running 28psi on all his wheels makes sense for mountain trails, but not pasture riding where there is no groomed trail. this is raw mother earth, u know, where ur food comes from.

so u don't need knobbies on every frigging euc! only a minority should have them. trust me, 69 years on this ranch, i know about tires. and 50k riding street mororcycles .

 

[techyiam]

52 minutes ago, jmsjms said:

Are there any other wheels that can operate without a fully functioning hall sensor?

The Abrams updated with the latest firmware can run without fully functioning Hall effect sensors above 8 or 10 km/h.

[novazeus]

yes. i don't like the v11y tire. just ship mine ready to have the michelin installed if possible. 

their bean counters will love my "pro" version kit idea. removes liability.

like airplanes u have to participate in the construction a certain percentage. that's the way i'd prefer to sell wheels. assembly required. and if u choose, a technician from the "pro" shop will assemble, test and teach u how to ride, and u can watch him assemble urs by appt at ur first lesson.

[fbhb]

Roger clears up the "misinformation" over the Lynx supposedly low 48mph top speed ability!

Edited November 13, 2023 by fbhb

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

 

Ronin should have continued to accelerate to a higher speed until he hears the 75% power alarm beeping?

Or should he goes faster for a top speed run?

When does the dynamic tilt back come into play on the Lynx?

EDIT:

Never mind. Roger is pushing the Lynx on Marty's Lynx. I guess we will find out the details soon enough. Apparently, Roger posted that he's already gone 55 mph on 50% battery on 50E cells.

 

Dynamic tiltback is user configuration, it starts slowly at whatever the rider configures.

But maybe Darknessbot is interpreting the PWM incorrect if it's saying 80% PWM and wheel is not beeping.

[techyiam]

Roger was saying he went 55 mph with no beeps. Then he tried again and got 55 mph with beeps at 50 % battery. That's a lot of headroom for my use case.

I hope people will start testing the Dynamic Tilt-back too, if the Lynx has that feature. (It should, considering the Patton has it).

[Marty Backe]

10 hours ago, techyiam said:

 

Ronin should have continued to accelerate to a higher speed until he hears the 75% power alarm beeping?

Or should he goes faster for a top speed run?

When does the dynamic tilt back come into play on the Lynx?

EDIT:

Never mind. Roger is pushing the Lynx on Marty's Lynx. I guess we will find out the details soon enough. Apparently, Roger posted that he's already gone 55 mph on 50% battery on 50E cells.

 

Roger achieved ~55mph at 50% ~battery. He'll have more opportunities at 100%

[novazeus]

go this today from eric cheng at ewheels.

fyi

 

 

[novazeus]

interesting little track. good for 4 year olds.

 

[novazeus]

i guess i'll wait until the tire change videos are posted and actually know what jason is sending me, but i'm guessing, unless reviewers have to assemble their wheels, the lynx requires considerable assembly and even an engineer like marty had difficulties.

[BULL]

Let's talk about the 50E vs 50S option?

What is your opinion? recommendable?

Efficient?

There is talk of characteristics on paper...but we know nothing about their effectiveness. It is said that the 50S degrades a lot...!

Do you think there will be much difference between the two options?

What would you buy?

[Rawnei]

5 minutes ago, BULL said:

Let's talk about the 50E vs 50S option?

What is your opinion? recommendable?

Efficient?

There is talk of characteristics on paper...but we know nothing about their effectiveness. It is said that the 50S degrades a lot...!

Do you think there will be much difference between the two options?

What would you buy?

I'm definitely no expert and there's so much FUD regarding this discussion atm, 50E is "good enough" for me so personally I would stick with those cells for now, from what I understand outside if eWheels it's not even sure if they will be offering the 50S variant so if you are in Europe you will have to wait for that to see how it pans out anyway.

[BULL]

It is said that the 50S have greater discharge and better performance in power demands. It is said that after about 250 cycles you can lose capacity in these cells... But...250 cycles?? at an average of 80km...they give us a result of 20,000km!!!

 

I assure you that I will not do them!!! We will have to wait to see results. But if Ewheels is going to deliver it in 50S...I think it will be a good product. No? And here in Europe...I'm already waiting for my Lynx with 50S!!

 

My distributor in Spain (Top Spin), has good/excellent service and has placed an order for 10 Lynx (5 of 50E and 5 of 20S); and one is mine. I'm nervous about enjoying my Lynx and seeing what it's capable of doing!!

[jimjam.nyc]

3 hours ago, BULL said:

Let's talk about the 50E vs 50S option?

What is your opinion? recommendable?

Efficient?

There is talk of characteristics on paper...but we know nothing about their effectiveness. It is said that the 50S degrades a lot...!

Do you think there will be much difference between the two options?

What would you buy?

I am not sure what the benefit of the 50s cells are as I can't decipher the charts and all that stuff. What I wish is that they focus on building good quality battery packs, possibly certified, etc.. Not so much what specific cell we demand in the battery. Just make good non-exploding and sturdy battery packs that fit the typical use case of the wheel.

Watching the city here in NY burn down from cheap LiOn batteries is bad news. I trust almost everything coming from our standard manufacturers these days on euc's... But the messaging on the news and the push for UL certified batteries has me worried the image of EUC's here atleast in NYC may take a hit. (in residential buildings)

Back On topic. From everything I am hearing it shouldn't matter much which cells you get 50e or 50s. I think we have enough evidence that the 50E is a reliable cell at this point. I guess as these wheels push higher voltages and higher amperage, etc.. We should be testing cells with higher discharge rates.. 

I guess the point I am making is, if manufactures optimize their power delivery and build the wheels with a certain cell in mind and its built well.. It shouldn't matter, especially for "normal" users. The emphasis is on it being built well.. 

 

[Rawnei]

5 hours ago, BULL said:

It is said that the 50S have greater discharge and better performance in power demands. It is said that after about 250 cycles you can lose capacity in these cells... But...250 cycles?? at an average of 80km...they give us a result of 20,000km!!!

The whole 250 cycles thing is completely misunderstood and taken out of context, that number comes from discharging the cells at full discharge, our EUC's don't come near that, at normal use case it will have a lot more cycles.

And that is where the FUD comes in, a lot of people with no real knowledge about battery cells are interpreting test data in their own way and spreading information that they don't understand.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Rawnei

[zaft]

I doubt the 50S cells would push more than 15amps to meet peak power, just a quick estimate…I’m assuming it’s 12s4p. Should get a great lifespan!

[cegli]

It looks like the 50S are superior in every way to the 50E, except in price.  They used to be quite expensive and hard to get, which is why I don't think they weren't used previously.

Cycle life is great.  An independent test showed 4500mAH per cell left after 952 cycles with at 90 DoD at 5 amp discharge.  They are 25A rated cells, versus 10A 50e.

The Lynx looks like it's using a 36S4P configuration.  With the Lynx pack, if you're pulling 5400W on these, you'd be drawing from the cells at 10A.  At 10A and below, they look to perform similarly to the 50E (still better from the spec sheet).  At 10A and above, the 50S does quite a bit better.  I'm guessing with hard breaking, hard acceleration, and/or high speeds, the 50s will get better battery life.  If you ease into all your acceleration and breaking, and don't go super fast, they'll probably be more similar with the 50s still outperforming the 50e.

50s probably has less voltage droop when the battery is low as well, so you'll be able to access more speed when the battery is close to dead.

Here's some good tests:
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/cycle-life-tests-of-high-power-density-cylindrical-cells.114473/

Edited November 15, 2023 by cegli

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, cegli said:

It looks like the 50S are superior in every way to the 50E, except in price.  They used to be quite expensive and hard to get, which is why I don't think they were used previously.

They just started mass producing them a while back it's why the prices are more reasonable.

[RagingGrandpa]

7 minutes ago, cegli said:

It looks like the 50S are superior in every way to the 50E, except in price. 

Let's chat 50S vs 50E in the dedicated thread below  

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/33940-experience-with-50e-vs-40t

[cegli]

Cool, added some charts of 50E vs 50S discharge in the other thread above.  The TL;DR is 50S look great, and should have better battery life and less voltage droop: