Marty's broken ankle - posted on Facebook

[Freeforester]

A - for AVOID

[UPONIT]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:30 PM, Finn Bjerke said:

 Id never take the suspension off my v13... 

That is fascinating to me. Even though it would take you 10 minutes to delete and 10 minutes to restore, you aren't even curious to TRY it, just for snits and giggles at least?

To quote Weird Barbie:   "No. You have to want to know. Do it again." 

[2disbetter]

8 hours ago, UPONIT said:

That is fascinating to me.

I mean I am open to being wrong. But I know what an EUC is like without suspension. I didn't need to remove it on the V13 to experience that. I don't personally want the V13 without suspension, because I feel the suspension brings too much to the table, especially at high speeds. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Bob Eisenman]

Good luck with your surgery and recovery. I watched your 'assassin A2' video.

Sitting or being bed ridden for extended periods of time is dull. When the cast comes off your calf muscle will have downsized in volume/strength.

1_reading

  a- the girl across from me on the subway was reading 'The Housemaid' by Freida McFadden (a practicing physician)

https://www.amazon.com/Housemaid-Freida-McFadden/dp/1538742578/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=19ZHDAAVDUPAZ&keywords=the+housemaid&qid=1690275037&sprefix=the+housemaid%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-1

 

2_learn to play or improve your chess online

  a- chess.com

  b-Lichess.org

  c- watch 'Gothamchess' videos or take a course of his on 'chessly'.

3_expand your visual space with an Meta-Oculus VR headset

4_after 'weight bearing' on the repaired injury is established the Oculus has a number of fun stand up  (or compete with others) games that help balance like Walkabout Mini Golf, Eleven ping pong, VR bowling, Wander (VR explore the world)

5_watch people walk and stream on twitch, 'alicewalking' virtual tours (Paris, NYC, Quebec) on YouTube

6_cooking

7_wood working? (Your previous passion)

Stay interested in something constructive to your various needs and limitations.

8_take the bus somewhere

9_inquire about (special needs) local transportation services or Uber types of rides

10_buy a rail pass on Amtrak, sit back and enjoy the view

11_'Instacart' is a food shopping/delivery service in my area associated with an app. Some non grocery-goods stores can be shopped with the Instacart app. Order stuff online and have the groceries in a few hours or less.

https://www.instacart.com/grocery-delivery/ca/near-me-in-los-angeles-ca

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bob Eisenman

[meepmeepmayer]

Official update video:

[InMoOnGoWa75012]

The only question I have : is the wheelchair a Begode one ?

Begode one day, begode forever !

[novazeus]

thinking about u marty and ur accident and ur passion for euc's while making my 5th trip to my gate today for amazon deliveries. i find myself grabbing the v13 everytime because of my perception thinking it's less likely to fail.

ur an engineer. u like to build. 

maybe take this down time to design and build a better euc. 

at least one that won't turn off. or catch on fire.

probably economically a stupid idea but might be a fun hobby during ur downtime and u got all those west coast maniacs out there to be ur test pilots.

make mine with a hard motorcycle tire, s22 size, no pads and definitely no spiked pedals.

Edited July 27, 2023 by novazeus

[2disbetter]

17 hours ago, novazeus said:

i find myself grabbing the v13 everytime because of my perception thinking it's less likely to fail.

I think the same way. And I don't think it is a crazy thought to have. These things are so much fun, but going fast on them means anything go wrong and you can be seriously hurt and even killed. 

The norm should be that we demand more safety on these wheels, and not just lip service. 

[OldFartRides]

Marty - well wishes from another old fart. I questioned the wisdom of taking up EUC’s at age 62 when I was first considering getting one, and again when I had my worst fall / injury @ zero miles per hour !  (Grapefruit sized hematoma on hip + jammed shoulder from falling backward / sideways when my wheel stopped between two large rocks on a trail feature / creek crossing). 
 Theory on your fall / break…too much pedal grip to allow your foot to slide sideways off pedal. Wheel was sideways while you were falling backwards putting a lot of torque on your lower leg.

Best,

[Bob Eisenman]

Marty's recent YouTube live interview post

 

Wheels (EUCs) are so heavy (about 41 lbs for the Begode A2).

What gyroscopic effects exist at low speed while powered off and supporting some/all of the riders weight?

Both the motor and lithium battery packs are heavy. When powered off suddenly, even at low speed, the gyroscopic effects from the spinning wheel's motor and the riders unevenly distributed weight on the pedals might produce twisting forces on the riders leg/foot until the rider was completely dismounted from the EUC.

 

[Marty Backe]

 

[2disbetter]

Honestly Marty, what happened to you is really worrying. EUCs are awesome. I love mine, but is my love for it worth permanently injuring myself as I already have with my shoulder? 

If you would ask me before I ever started riding, would you rather ride an EUC but deal with a broken shoulder, or rather not ride an EUC and not have broken a shoulder, I know what I would say. I'm not as entrenched as you obviously with EUCs. 

But with all of the falls you have had, it seems inevitable with them. 

I mean my broken shoulder wasn't because of rider error. It was because my V12 HT driver board just died in the middle of riding. Nothing I did. 

I wouldn't be thinking this way if it was because of me that I fell and broke my shoulder. But it wasn't me. It was the wheel. 

Do I really want to trust my body with the wheel? 

That is the question. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by 2disbetter

[UPONIT]

7 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

Honestly Marty, what happened to you is really worrying. EUCs are awesome. I love mine, but is my love for it worth permanently injuring myself as I already have with my shoulder? 

If you would ask me before I ever started riding, would you rather ride an EUC but deal with a broken shoulder, or rather not ride an EUC and not have broken a shoulder, I know what I would say. I'm not as entrenched as you obviously with EUCs. 

But with all of the falls you have had, it seems inevitable with them. 

I mean my broken shoulder wasn't because of rider error. It was because my V12 HT driver board just died in the middle of riding. Nothing I did. 

I wouldn't be thinking this way if it was because of me that I fell and broke my shoulder. But it wasn't me. It was the wheel. 

Do I really want to trust my body with the wheel? 

That is the question. 

It is the excruciating question that no one else can answer for us older riders. Like with you, it is the nagging worry that's always in the back of my mind.

The "best" thing that happened since my back-to-back injuries and 8 months of recovery:  I FELL. First fall since I started riding again 6 months ago. Transition from asphalt to loose gravel, twist fall into a briar bush and I WAS UNINJURED. I landed on my hand almost stiff armed and my shoulder didn't re-dislocate. Wasn't even sore or scratched. That's been my biggest worry: has it healed enough to withstand normal forces?

Is it safe to feel that most accidents won't cause injuries, a smaller portion will cause minor lumps, and only the rare ones will be debilitating? Maybe I've had my one freakish disaster? Has this happened to you yet? What do you think about the odds?

------------------

I don't really know if I would feel different if it were the wheel's fault or mine. I think you are saying you have control over your own skills. But there will always be something unexpected that might overwhelm you? I totally agree that getting as good as possible, as safely as possible, learning every trick and maneuver until the wheel is basically second nature in every way, is the fundamental, controllable prevention strategy.

One idea that might help us make better evaluations about risk: Should "EUC YouTube Influencers" show as many of their own minor, even just step-off events as possible? Maybe in occasional compilation clips? It would show just how commonly, and under what circumstances, highly skilled riders have "non-injury involuntary dismounts." If you get good enough and don't showboat, do you almost never injure yourself? 

Learning the V13, and while riding further and through unfamiliar territory lately, I have been relieved to encounter more challenging surprises  that I was able to handle as "step off" events. Every time a pedestrian flings a gate open in my path and somehow I make a hairpin turn that I probably couldn't do if I was thinking about it... I feel a little more secure.

The firmware/mechanical/electrical risks of the EUC are harder to evaluate. Marty's injury is the perfect example. Let others be the early adopters is the best thing I can think of?

A little long winded, but I really appreciate having someone in a similar situation to talk this out with. I'm the oldest rider I know personally.

Edited August 22, 2023 by UPONIT
make it longer and more wordy.

[Freeforester]

The early bird may indeed get the worm, but it’s the second mouse who tends to get the cheese (ancient third batch buyers’ proverb) 😬

[mrelwood]

On 8/22/2023 at 6:11 AM, UPONIT said:

Every time a pedestrian flings a gate open in my path

This is a fundamental differentiator between riders. In my view, if a perfectly normally behaving pedestrian can cause a dangerous situation to my riding, I would consider myself having ridden in the completely wrong place or way too fast for the situation.

I have decided not to give others the opportunity to cause me harm like that. I don’t know how I’d be able to avoid collisions if I would. By pure luck? Nah, I’ve ridden way too much to trust in luck on every single ride.

[2disbetter]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I have decided not to give others the opportunity to cause me harm like that. I don’t know how I’d be able to avoid collisions if I would. By pure luck? Nah, I’ve ridden way too much to trust in luck on every single ride.

I think this is a really good piece of logic for the question of EUC safety. How much of the safety equation is on us? Perhaps it was on me for riding so fast on the EUC to begin with when I broke my shoulder? Maybe keeping speeds down is really the ticket here? 

I'm selling my EUCs but I might keep the V13 after all? 

With what happened to Marty, I wonder if a lighter wheel is just safer in this regard as well? 

[Freeforester]

32 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

I think this is a really good piece of logic for the question of EUC safety. How much of the safety equation is on us? Perhaps it was on me for riding so fast on the EUC to begin with when I broke my shoulder? Maybe keeping speeds down is really the ticket here? 

I'm selling my EUCs but I might keep the V13 after all? 

With what happened to Marty, I wonder if a lighter wheel is just safer in this regard as well? 

It seems that Marty’s confidence in Begode’s engineering QC competence may have been misplaced. The A2 isn’t a heavy wheel, so that aspect can be discounted - it would appear that if any wheel of any weight, ridden at any speed decides to shut itself off, then any rider is at risk of injury.            
 

It may be the case that it was just a one in a million chance incident, and we can ponder what are the chances it happens to a first batch or pre-release beta tester/reviewer - actually significantly greater that for the rest, but of small comfort to Marty, I imagine. It wasn’t Marty’s fault, but a fault arose.  We all need to consider how likely this type of shutoff could occur with ALL wheels, and how it occurred specifically in this instance, in order to try to ensure that Marty’s unfortunate injury was not suffered without learning something from it.

[Planemo]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This is a fundamental differentiator between riders. In my view, if a perfectly normally behaving pedestrian can cause a dangerous situation to my riding, I would consider myself having ridden in the completely wrong place or way too fast for the situation.

Amen. Way too many riders consider the problem to be anything other than themselves.

[UPONIT]

15 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This is a fundamental differentiator between riders. In my view, if a perfectly normally behaving pedestrian can cause a dangerous situation to my riding, I would consider myself having ridden in the completely wrong place or way too fast for the situation.

I have decided not to give others the opportunity to cause me harm like that. I don’t know how I’d be able to avoid collisions if I would. By pure luck? Nah, I’ve ridden way too much to trust in luck on every single ride.

I don't know where you live. The density of my city, and its variety of sidewalks, walkways, narrow twisty streets and varying house setbacks means there is no path that doesn't present opportunities for surprise obstacles. If I lived in suburbs with super-wide, smoothly paved streets, I might never see anyone doored by a parked car, for instance.

But the point I was making was I go slow and try not to get ahead of my ability. I go slower than 25 mph almost all the time, and am as vigilant as possible. When that gate was flung open in front of me, I was relieved that I had the (skill? luck? something?) to make a hairpin turn and avoid it with inches to spare, and keep going without a dismount. It was a gauge of my reaction time and non-thinking skill level. Nothing special for more advanced riders, but a marker for me.

13 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

I think this is a really good piece of logic for the question of EUC safety. How much of the safety equation is on us? Perhaps it was on me for riding so fast on the EUC to begin with when I broke my shoulder? Maybe keeping speeds down is really the ticket here? 

I'm selling my EUCs but I might keep the V13 after all? 

With what happened to Marty, I wonder if a lighter wheel is just safer in this regard as well? 

I hate that your injury is leading you towards quitting a hobby you love. But only you can make that assessment. 

Slow speed injuries on EUCs can be gnarly, and that seems like an unavoidable (not inevitable, just nothing you can do about some of the physics of the events), but very rare, event? In my case, it can be learned from, and hopefully never repeated.

Highspeed injuries can by definition be avoided, if the risk/reward ratio is too high?

12 hours ago, Freeforester said:

It seems that Marty’s confidence in Begode’s engineering QC competence may have been misplaced. The A2 isn’t a heavy wheel, so that aspect can be discounted - it would appear that if any wheel of any weight, ridden at any speed decides to shut itself off, then any rider is at risk of injury.            
 

It may be the case that it was just a one in a million chance incident, and we can ponder what are the chances it happens to a first batch or pre-release beta tester/reviewer - actually significantly greater that for the rest, but of small comfort to Marty, I imagine. It wasn’t Marty’s fault, but a fault arose.  We all need to consider how likely this type of shutoff could occur with ALL wheels, and how it occurred specifically in this instance, in order to try to ensure that Marty’s unfortunate injury was not suffered without learning something from it.

There is a HUGE statistical element to take into account when putting Marty's accident into the brain as evidence to evaluate risk. He rides most if not all models of EUCs that exist. And he rides them for many times the amount of mileage that the average EUC rider does. This makes it far more statistically probable that a relatively rare bug like this would happen to him. 

It isn't his "fault." There is no right or wrong in his behavior. Only probability.

Hopefully his recovery is as swift and painless as possible. He seems to be an appropriately cautious and responsible rider. We need "influencers" like that! 

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I don't know where you live. The density of my city, and its variety of sidewalks, walkways, narrow twisty streets and varying house setbacks means there is no path that doesn't present opportunities for surprise obstacles.

Was the gate place one that you’d ride a bicycle at?

11 hours ago, UPONIT said:

There is a HUGE statistical element to take into account when putting Marty's accident into the brain as evidence to evaluate risk. He rides most if not all models of EUCs that exist. And he rides them for many times the amount of mileage that the average EUC rider does. This makes it far more statistically probable that a relatively rare bug like this would happen to him.

Marty was just quickly testing the A2. It wasn’t his own.

 But the way I see it, there’s still a huge statistical element. No matter how famous Marty is, it’s still just one single such incident we know about. In comparison, the Master thread is practically filled with sudden failed boards, and one rider in Finland has had 3 boards in total doing that on his Master. Yet this issue was never talked about very publicly, and people just swallowed it as the cost of having such powerful wheel. Yet the A2 is now called a cutout wheel based on this one incident.

I hate that part of our community’s behavior.

[The Brahan Seer]

21 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I hate that part of our community’s behavior.

We hear so many issues with all the models and all the manufacturers. I was contemplating keeping a record of them. Putting everyone's experiences in a spreadsheet just to see if there is a pattern of any sort. But there is just so many different things. No manufacturer is immune and I appreciate that one or two companies might make better quality wheels, but I don't believe that equates to safer wheels by a long shot. They break just as much as the others.  They just look better when it happens. 

[OldFartRides]

Just a minor point of fact…Begode gifted the A2 to Marty. Which was very ironic. That’s why it was dubbed “assassin”.

[Mono]

15 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I don't know where you live. The density of my city, and its variety of sidewalks, walkways, narrow twisty streets and varying house setbacks means there is no path that doesn't present opportunities for surprise obstacles

Idk, I have been riding for years in a place with over twice the population density of SF, yet, apart from riding in the middle of heavy or fast car traffic, many if not most paths just can't present any surprises when ridden with appropriate speed, which is sometimes as slow as slow walking speed, in particular on sidewalks where pedestrians may walk without paying much attention or impaired eyesight or enter without prior notice, which is all perfectly in their rights. Sometimes that sucks, right, but it surely is possible, at least here.

[UPONIT]

On 8/24/2023 at 6:21 AM, mrelwood said:

Was the gate place one that you’d ride a bicycle at?

Marty was just quickly testing the A2. It wasn’t his own.

 But the way I see it, there’s still a huge statistical element. No matter how famous Marty is, it’s still just one single such incident we know about. In comparison, the Master thread is practically filled with sudden failed boards, and one rider in Finland has had 3 boards in total doing that on his Master. Yet this issue was never talked about very publicly, and people just swallowed it as the cost of having such powerful wheel. Yet the A2 is now called a cutout wheel based on this one incident.

I hate that part of our community’s behavior.

Yes. Right at the street-side. where there is no parking, so basically right hand side of the road. Opened fence to let car out. 

On 8/24/2023 at 11:48 AM, Mono said:

Idk, I have been riding for years in a place with over twice the population density of SF, yet, apart from riding in the middle of heavy or fast car traffic, many if not most paths just can't present any surprises when ridden with appropriate speed, which is sometimes as slow as slow walking speed, in particular on sidewalks where pedestrians may walk without paying much attention or impaired eyesight or enter without prior notice, which is all perfectly in their rights. Sometimes that sucks, right, but it surely is possible, at least here.

I was going about 15mph. I never ride amongst cars, except for brief stretches on side streets, when turning left, or when going from bike lane to bike lane. It's just too hectic to try and be a part of regular vehicular traffic. 

I also defer right of way to cars and bikes and pedestrians and every other user of the road unless they are observant and aware enough to act correctly. I see no reason to assert right of way when I'm the one that would lose almost any "contact event." 

[Tawpie]

On 8/21/2023 at 8:11 PM, UPONIT said:

Should "EUC YouTube Influencers" show as many of their own minor, even just step-off events as possible? Maybe in occasional compilation clips? It would show just how commonly, and under what circumstances, highly skilled riders have "non-injury involuntary dismounts."

interesting thought... personally, I like to see that they are human. Marty did that in a few of his videos, showed himself struggling, making mistakes, getting overtired, falling off backwards. To me, those are good reminders—yes, you are a highly skilled rider but still, things do happen. Showing your crash because you're pushing the wheel at or beyond its limits, I don't really need to see much of that.

On 8/21/2023 at 8:11 PM, UPONIT said:

I'm the oldest rider I know personally.

I might be in your age bracket (since you claim to be 'old')... when the risk reward equation stops working, there should be zero shame in hanging up the wheels. It's an inherently risky activity and at some point it just doesn't make sense to continue. I'd be happy to chat with you about being an older rider and dealing with the what-ifs... tomorrow is a travel day (to the land of many trails) so after that!

Edited August 26, 2023 by Tawpie