Marty's broken ankle - posted on Facebook

[Mono]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I might be in your age bracket (since you claim to be 'old')... when the risk reward equation stops working, there should be zero shame in hanging up the wheels. It's an inherently risky activity and at some point it just doesn't make sense to continue.

Of course there is no shame in giving up wheeling, so I entirely agree with your first point. I don't quite agree with the second: I don't see why age should stop someone as long as they can ride. To me it's almost the opposite. One may start to have difficulties walking, but still have the ability to ride the wheel. Then, by all means, count me in! IIRC, several people have reported in this forum that wheeling works for them even when walking was difficult.

I haven't had a fall since many years and many thousands of miles of A-to-B riding and I certainly have quite some cushion to become even more cautious when riding. IMHO, riding a wheel is a high risk activity only by choice, it doesn't need to be for a rider who appreciates to avoid taking risks. And then, activity is what keeps people alive, in particular old people.

[UPONIT]

18 hours ago, Tawpie said:

interesting thought... personally, I like to see that they are human. Marty did that in a few of his videos, showed himself struggling, making mistakes, getting overtired, falling off backwards. To me, those are good reminders—yes, you are a highly skilled rider but still, things do happen. Showing your crash because you're pushing the wheel at or beyond its limits, I don't really need to see much of that.

I might be in your age bracket (since you claim to be 'old')... when the risk reward equation stops working, there should be zero shame in hanging up the wheels. It's an inherently risky activity and at some point it just doesn't make sense to continue. I'd be happy to chat with you about being an older rider and dealing with the what-ifs... tomorrow is a travel day (to the land of many trails) so after that!

Yes. Making human mistakes!

I'm hoping I have many years of riding before I feel like I have to give it up. Thank you so much for the offer, which sounds great. I already consider your posts a valuable resource for "non-spring-chicken" EUC perspective and advice. You have a great deal of practical wisdom.

[Unventor]

@Marty Backe I hope you recover fully and quickly.

I have had a few incidents in my riding time of 5 years. It took me 8 months+ to not having shoulder pains after landing on my shoulder upside down. Luckily I were geared up or I would have had a smashed shoulder joint. 

Despite EUC feels safe and stable it should always be in once mind a crash can happen at any time. My latest crash at 25ISH kmh reminded me if this. That one was due to a valve dislocated from the tube. I have had a brand new coltrol board die on me too after 500m of riding. Like you said situations like these is impossible to control. 

I still do ride but I gear up and have now limited my wheels to 10kmh less than their rated topspeed. It is as someone else wrote here a calculated risk vs "gain/reward" and that will always be individual balance. 

Hope it all goes great for you Marty. 

[Bob Eisenman]

Marty is up and walking without a cast.

 

And 

A Begode Extreme gets a female rider's impressions

 

 

[Elliott Reitz]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:26 AM, Mono said:

Of course there is no shame in giving up wheeling, so I entirely agree with your first point. I don't quite agree with the second: I don't see why age should stop someone as long as they can ride. To me it's almost the opposite. One may start to have difficulties walking, but still have the ability to ride the wheel. Then, by all means, count me in! IIRC, several people have reported in this forum that wheeling works for them even when walking was difficult.

I haven't had a fall since many years and many thousands of miles of A-to-B riding and I certainly have quite some cushion to become even more cautious when riding. IMHO, riding a wheel is a high risk activity only by choice, it doesn't need to be for a rider who appreciates to avoid taking risks. And then, activity is what keeps people alive, in particular old people.

Well IDK how old is "old".  I'm 60 and I've done 7K miles on 11 different wheels and my dog Loki has done about 4000 of that with me (Loki's 9 YO).  Before EUCs I rode self-built bicycle-choppers, and before that, GP racing, Motocross, Flat-Track, etc.  So it really is hard to imagine giving up wheeling at this point.  As for age vs health, well I known some 80+ YO people who live sharp, spry, and active. 

On 8/26/2023 at 8:53 PM, UPONIT said:

Yes. Making human mistakes!

I'm hoping I have many years of riding before I feel like I have to give it up. Thank you so much for the offer, which sounds great. I already consider your posts a valuable resource for "non-spring-chicken" EUC perspective and advice. You have a great deal of practical wisdom.

We all make mistakes, sure.  And we all play a game of chance in life.  Thankfully my crashes have all been easy-recoveries compared to a couple of motorcycle and car crash events.  I have been "riding" at least bikes since I was 6.   

On 9/25/2023 at 11:32 AM, Bob Eisenman said:

Marty is up and walking without a cast.

And 

A Begode Extreme gets a female rider's impressions

Marty is like most people on crutches, walkers, etc.  I've been through disabled smashed ankles and broken foot bones w/o medical assistance... got crutches and hopped on the other leg for miles.  It sucks, its work, but I would rather hop on one leg than play the poor me card over mobility when I can make it there.  I can make it anywhere!

And I have both the S22 and Extreme and both with aggressive knobby tires.  I can over-torque the S22 Pro (even though I upgraded to 4K motor too).  The Extreme is actually heavier than the S22 also.  So "which is better" is a very narrow determinate mostly based upon how wet-soggy the grassy fields are.  If they're ultra-wet and muddy then I take the S22 because it has a bigger tire, the Shinko 525 80/100-14, vs the Extreme's Dunlop Geomax MX53 80/100-12. 

As for The Assassin and A2 s, all digital electronic are subject to "single event upset" where high energy sub-atomic particles can hit a transistor and change the state of the computer (address bits, memory bits, etc).  Thus it can run off into some odd branch of the code, shut down, crash, etc.  THIS is why computers that are used for commercial airlines and other similar products are built with many layers of design constraints including redundancy (like if EUCs had dual controllers).    

As a Systems Engineer who's worked flight safety issues (C17 GPWS, C130J glass cockpit, P&W Engines) I would definitely like to see EUCs develop to where i can buy a dual-redundant 270V 100mph capable EUC.  That not being available I did just put down a deposit on the EB GT Pro.  

Edited December 18, 2023 by Elliott Reitz
Loki 9

[Marty Backe]

9 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Well IDK how old is "old".  I'm 60 and I've done 7K miles on 11 different wheels and my dog Loki has done about 4000 of that with me (Loki's 9 YO).  Before EUCs I rode self-built bicycle-choppers, and before that, GP racing, Motocross, Flat-Track, etc.  So it really is hard to imagine giving up wheeling at this point.  As for age vs health, well I known some 80+ YO people who live sharp, spry, and active. 

We all make mistakes, sure.  And we all play a game of chance in life.  Thankfully my crashes have all been easy-recoveries compared to a couple of motorcycle and car crash events.  I have been "riding" at least bikes since I was 6.   

Marty is like most people on crutches, walkers, etc.  I've been through disabled smashed ankles and broken foot bones w/o medical assistance... got crutches and hopped on the other leg for miles.  It sucks, its work, but I would rather hop on one leg than play the poor me card over mobility when I can make it there.  I can make it anywhere!

And I have both the S22 and Extreme and both with aggressive knobby tires.  I can over-torque the S22 Pro (even though I upgraded to 4K motor too).  The Extreme is actually heavier than the S22 also.  So "which is better" is a very narrow determinate mostly based upon how wet-soggy the grassy fields are.  If they're ultra-wet and muddy then I take the S22 because it has a bigger tire, the Shinko 525 80/100-14, vs the Extreme's Dunlop Geomax MX53 80/100-12. 

As for The Assassin and A2 s, all digital electronic are subject to "single event upset" where high energy sub-atomic particles can hit a transistor and change the state of the computer (address bits, memory bits, etc).  Thus it can run off into some odd branch of the code, shut down, crash, etc.  THIS is why computers that are used for commercial airlines and other similar products are built with many layers of design constraints including redundancy (like if EUCs had dual controllers).    

As a Systems Engineer who's worked flight safety issues (C17 GPWS, C130J glass cockpit, P&W Engines) I would definitely like to see EUCs develop to where i can buy a dual-redundant 270V 100mph capable EUC.  That not being available I did just put down a deposit on the EB GT Pro.  

Are you saying that I was playing the "poor me card" 

[Elliott Reitz]

On 12/18/2023 at 3:50 PM, Marty Backe said:

Are you saying that I was playing the "poor me card" 

Only a little bit.  IDK why nobody else is like me in that I've hopped on 1 leg to shool, work, and through life whenever I had to.  And I've busted many many of my bones w/o ever getting medical attention.  The only medical Dr visits I've had have been >50% bullshit pushing drugs at me... so I'm really just criticizing everyone for the poor me run to the Dr pusher that seems so common.  

FWIW, God-damn the Pusher Man... (add Dr while listening):

 

[Elliott Reitz]

Ya know its funny I recently met a guy who's embarrassed of personal injury like me.  He crashed the V11 he sold me.  When he dropped it off I went to shake his hand but he pulled back and winced a little as I was gonna give it a good shake.  Only because he couldn't hide it did he admidt he'd crashed and busted his shoulder.  Since then he got it operated on (screws and a rod for a while).  When I said "well that's fun", he said "yep, like sleaping".  LOL, he still has another wheel and is shopping for another.  He might end up buying the Master from me. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Only a little bit.  IDK why nobody else is like me in that I've hopped on 1 leg to shool, work, and through life whenever I had to.  And I've busted many many of my bones w/o ever getting medical attention.  The only medical Dr visits I've had have been >50% bullshit pushing drugs at me... so I'm really just criticizing everyone for the poor me run to the Dr pusher that seems so common.  

FWIW, God-damn the Pusher Man... (add Dr while listening):

 

Call me skeptical but I have my doubts that you had "serious" broken bones. My bones weren't going to magically realign themselves and heal.

I did fracture my upper humerus from an EUC fall in 2018 and only went to a doctor a couple of months later for physical therapy. That's where an x-ray showed that I had fractured it.

So if you're talking about fractures that you've had, OK. But dislocated bone breaks???

Yeah, call me a wimp for seeing a doctor for my broken and dislocated ankle 

P.s. I'm just having fun with you so don't take what I'm writing as any kind of attack 

[Elliott Reitz]

17 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Call me skeptical but I have my doubts that you had "serious" broken bones. My bones weren't going to magically realign themselves and heal.

I did fracture my upper humerus from an EUC fall in 2018 and only went to a doctor a couple of months later for physical therapy. That's where an x-ray showed that I had fractured it.

So if you're talking about fractures that you've had, OK. But dislocated bone breaks???

Yeah, call me a wimp for seeing a doctor for my broken and dislocated ankle 

P.s. I'm just having fun with you so don't take what I'm writing as any kind of attack 

I've busted multiple ribs mutiple times, collar bone broke in 1980, 2003-2016 (finally mended then)... busted metatarsal on my foot, and left 7th rib adjacent to vertebra, and crushed my sternum.  Rung my 'bell' a few times too.   As for hopping on 1 leg for mobility that was the metatarsal as well as several ankle injuries and a knee injury. 

PS:  Yes as for dislocated and unable to "set" the bone, medial attention.  But you did have multiple crutches, and even a walker.  Surely you could make due hopping on 1 leg around the house, to/from the car, and as for work/shopping sure the knee-scooter. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Elliott Reitz
ps

[Planemo]

I dont know if I'm the only one who wonders where this line of questioning is meant to be going, but the main issue for me would be getting back to riding asap. If that means intrusive medical attention so be it. Yes I am sure we can all heal reasonably well to a reasonable standard given time (like many did before the medical advances we have nowadays) but life time is precious and so I will take all I can get to ensure I am mobile enough to do what I want to do before I get too old to do it! 

[UnbalancedMathematician]

On 7/17/2023 at 4:16 PM, Marty Backe said:

Hi Guys,

Thought I'd post here, a bit of a follow-up.

As you can see in Roger's video, no smoking gun was found, which is disconcerting.

I was riding the wheel leisurely around my neighborhood. I had my kneepads and wristguards on (the wristguards saved my wrists for sure). Had been riding for probably 2-miles. mostly ~15-mph.

It turned off. No beep that I remember and no beeping when it was on it's side. A neighbor helped place it in my wife's car and it was clearly OFF. 

When I got back from the ER I had my wife press the power button and it turned on.

Can't imagine it being firmware otherwise there would be a lot of "turn-off's" occurring. It's not the motor because that wouldn't cause the wheel to turn off. Doesn't appear to be the battery. So I imagine there's a subtle crack or similar failure somewhere on the control board. From my perspective the wheel is going in the trash 

First true wheel failure in 7-years of riding and ~45-wheels.

A wheel that turns off is much more dangerous than an overpower cutoff (where the pedals are still semi-balancing). You have zero control of the situation. In my case I fell backwards and the twisting wheel/pedals must have grabbed my foot and caused the damage: dislocation and 2-3 broken bones. I see the surgeon on Friday so maybe it gets fixed the following week.

Having the use of only one leg is a major hurtle to living life. If your livelihood depends on having use of all limbs and you don't have good medical leave benefits, think twice about riding EUC's, particularly if you have a family that depends on you.

I can relate. In June I was riding 4mph and have no idea what happened. Last I recall was waiting at the light. Woke up at the entrance to an intersection, wheel 15 feet behind and right with no damage. It's been a long recovery, 2 surgeries etc

[OldSolo]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:31 AM, UnbalancedMathematician said:

I can relate. In June I was riding 4mph and have no idea what happened. Last I recall was waiting at the light. Woke up at the entrance to an intersection, wheel 15 feet behind and right with no damage. It's been a long recovery, 2 surgeries etc

Not fun!  Distal tib-fib fractures are problematic, the blood supply to the tibia comes from above ... until you get close to the ankle, and then it is supplied by blood vessels that first go to the foot and then send a branch back northward.  There is a signficant risk of 'non-union' where the bone just does not want to heal.  Some years back, my late wife & I were riding our tandem bicycle & were hit from behind.  It almost tore her left leg off about the same position as your injury.  She did heal without complication (tibial rod inserted) but it was a sketchy time.

I remember following your posts last Fall.  I hope you continue to heal (and feel free to post updated xrays for the curious) and regain full function.  I had my left ankle fused 3.5 years ago due to degenerative arthritis ( 'high ankle sprain' not recognized a few years earlier, ultimately led to severe deterioration).  Because I could no longer ride a bicycle (and I REALLY miss mountain biking!) I was looking for a replacement and came across an EUC video.  Lack of ankle movement has slowed my riding progress, but I am getting there!

[Marty Backe]

11 hours ago, OldSolo said:

Not fun!  Distal tib-fib fractures are problematic, the blood supply to the tibia comes from above ... until you get close to the ankle, and then it is supplied by blood vessels that first go to the foot and then send a branch back northward.  There is a signficant risk of 'non-union' where the bone just does not want to heal.  Some years back, my late wife & I were riding our tandem bicycle & were hit from behind.  It almost tore her left leg off about the same position as your injury.  She did heal without complication (tibial rod inserted) but it was a sketchy time.

I remember following your posts last Fall.  I hope you continue to heal (and feel free to post updated xrays for the curious) and regain full function.  I had my left ankle fused 3.5 years ago due to degenerative arthritis ( 'high ankle sprain' not recognized a few years earlier, ultimately led to severe deterioration).  Because I could no longer ride a bicycle (and I REALLY miss mountain biking!) I was looking for a replacement and came across an EUC video.  Lack of ankle movement has slowed my riding progress, but I am getting there!

Sorry to hear of your injury. Wow. So a hit-and-run?

I'm doing much better. 8-months into the injury and I still have a swollen ankle and there's pain in the morning, after riding, etc etc. It's a long road to full recovery.

[UnbalancedMathematician]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:02 AM, OldSolo said:

Not fun!  Distal tib-fib fractures are problematic, the blood supply to the tibia comes from above ... until you get close to the ankle, and then it is supplied by blood vessels that first go to the foot and then send a branch back northward.  There is a signficant risk of 'non-union' where the bone just does not want to heal.  Some years back, my late wife & I were riding our tandem bicycle & were hit from behind.  It almost tore her left leg off about the same position as your injury.  She did heal without complication (tibial rod inserted) but it was a sketchy time.

I remember following your posts last Fall.  I hope you continue to heal (and feel free to post updated xrays for the curious) and regain full function.  I had my left ankle fused 3.5 years ago due to degenerative arthritis ( 'high ankle sprain' not recognized a few years earlier, ultimately led to severe deterioration).  Because I could no longer ride a bicycle (and I REALLY miss mountain biking!) I was looking for a replacement and came across an EUC video.  Lack of ankle movement has slowed my riding progress, but I am getting there!

You're right healing is very slow. Rather amazingly, after a botched first surgery. The second has posterior angulation. Just botched in a slightly better way. But my leg literally can't handle another surgery of rod drilling etc 

[UnbalancedMathematician]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:31 PM, Marty Backe said:

Sorry to hear of your injury. Wow. So a hit-and-run?

I'm doing much better. 8-months into the injury and I still have a swollen ankle and there's pain in the morning, after riding, etc etc. It's a long road to full recovery.

Mornings are worse indeed. They make me feel like an invalid lol

[Cerbera]

Check this out guys - ANOTHER A2 has the @Marty Backe assassination problem !

Same symptoms as Marty - wheel turns itself off whilst low speed ride. Further testing seems to indicate sticky power button...