Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[Robse]

at least, it looks better than this

 

[techyiam]

The basic suspension concept of the Adventure is loosely based on the S18, like all the linkage suspension designs that came after.

This suspension design and layout has proven to work sufficiently well for some implementations.

And it is a lot cheaper and less riskier than to do something completely different 

But I contend that there are many different designs and layouts that are possible.

 

I guess there is room for improvement on existing linkage suspension designs.

The most obvious area to improve on is to use proper hardware for the pin joints of the linkage, aside from using proper leverage curve and ratios for the linkage.

 

Another area that needs to improve are the sliders in linkage suspensions. 

Here the designers will face a conundrum. A high quality wet-lubricated and sealed slider would be basically a suspension fork without the coil springs and hydraulic damping circuits. So it doesn't make economically sense to do so. And in the motorcycle world, for example, some BMW motorcycle front suspensions use a swingarm and a coil-over shock for the front suspension. No sliders are used.

If high quality, oil lubricated and sealed telescoping sliders are to be used, then you might as well put in the coil spring and hydraulic damping circuit.

And hence, I don't anticipate high quality, durable, and low maintenance sliders coming soon in linkage suspensions.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by techyiam

[onewheelkoregro]

Sorry for that previous comment, it won't let me delete it. But it really looks similar to the Begode extreme to me. But I am waiting for the 3rd batch extremes before I will get one. I did sign up to be a tester for this wheel though. Hopefully they pick me, and if I have to pay to be a tester how can they expect you not to talk about it? Just my opinion.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, onewheelkoregro said:

... it really looks similar to the Begode extreme to me. But I am waiting for the 3rd batch extremes before I will get one. I did sign up to be a tester for this wheel though. Hopefully they pick me, and if I have to pay to be a tester how can they expect you not to talk about it? Just my opinion.

Although I was hoping for some innovation in the suspension department, I think it is much too early to draw any conclusions at this point in time. 

We need to at least wait for the official announcement of the Adventure to know more of its specs and features.

It does seem like the Patton, the Commander Mini, and the Extreme bring something very appealing to the table, and as to which one to choose depends largely on what one is looking for.

Edited August 1, 2023 by techyiam

[Forwardnbak]

i think we should start to see some specs mid August. 

[slippyfeet]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

It does seem like the Patton, the Commander Mini, and the Extreme bring something very appealing to the table, and as to which one to choose depends largely on what one is looking for.

I personally don't see the strategy in offering a wheel that directly competes in a category that many people already purchased this year while the sub 16"/25kg category has been severely neglected - I personally never tried a V8 or V10 because I never found them particularly attractive.
I just hope whatever positive is learned from this platform will trickle down immediately.

[techyiam]

13 minutes ago, slippyfeet said:

I personally don't see the strategy in offering a wheel that directly competes in a category that many people already purchased this year while the sub 16"/25kg category has been severely neglected - I personally never tried a V8 or V10 because I never found them particularly attractive.
I just hope whatever positive is learned from this platform will trickle down immediately.

OK, but the reality may work differently. 

For example, in the car industry before suv's popularity, the Accord / Camry class was class of cars that very many people wanted to buy in the US. The reality was that this was the type of cars many people want to buy. So each car manufacturer has a model to complete in this class year after year. Dito the Civic / Toyota class.

Personally, I have no use for a wheel that is below a Patton class. And all I do is ride from point A to B in an urban environment.

I believe the EX.N's, and OG Shermans along with V11, and V12 sold well.

Then it was the S22, Master, and Sherman Max that sold well along with the V11's/V12's.

I see the Patton class of wheels stealing sales from the S22 / Master.

Leaper Kim doesn't make wheels smaller than the Patton. 

[daniel1234]

I like that Inmotion ditched their old suspension system and follow successful trends, instead of trying to "reinvent wheel".

Haters will say it is stealing but - lets face it - "It is the way" how they do it in china. 

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

I like that Inmotion ditched their old suspension system and follow successful trends, instead of trying to "reinvent wheel".

Haters will say it is stealing but - lets face it - "It is the way" how they do it in china. 

Well, at least Inmotion didn't copy the S22/S19 sliders.

Although, copying Leaper Kim's hydraulic suspension with 130 mm travel and a progressively wound coil spring could have been an alternative. 

[mrelwood]

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

I disagree. Begode Hero.

Let’s break this down.

The known suspension systems when the Adventure design assumedly started were the V11 style and the S18/Begode style. If you go with the linkage system, you have a choice of 1 or 2 sliding tubes per side. 2 is obviously very difficult to get aligned, so 1 makes more sense. Now, how much can the single tube system differ from any other vertical tube system?

Same goes for the linkages, display position and it’s hump on the design, battery positions, etc. And leaving as much casing off as reasonably possible to reduce weight. There really aren’t many ways a wheel like this can end up being. Yet the leaked prototype doesn’t really look anything like the Hero.

 

14 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

These renders look very familiar eh @mrelwood ?

Covered vs open, front hump vs low profile, flat top vs curved, etc. I can’t see the resemblance.

 

8 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

if I have to pay to be a tester how can they expect you not to talk about it? Just my opinion.

By making you sign an NDA…? Are you saying that you plan to break the NDA if you get chosen?

 

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

Although I was hoping for some innovation in the suspension department, I think it is much too early to draw any conclusions at this point in time.

I agree, on both accounts. 

 

4 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

I personally don't see the strategy in offering a wheel that directly competes in a category that many people already purchased this year while the sub 16"/25kg category has been severely neglected

I fully agree!! And to @techyiam’s response, EUC manufacturers are not big enough to compete in every single category/feature combination. LeaperKim has I think 3 current models and it’s strategy is working. They’re not going for the 14D/14M/V5F/MCM5v2/V8F/V8S/16S/V10F/16X markets. But those market segments still exists, and sells wheels every day. Except they only sell 4-7 (roughly) year old designs, despite people constantly asking for new wheels in those categories. Even the US markets that are heavily leaning towards big and heavy wheels often have the 3 year old V11 right at the top of the dealers’ charts.

V11 weighs 27kg. The only sub 30kg wheels launched since 2020 are the tiny Mten4 and A2. Both without suspension, with a tin can of a shell, and an unknown cutout issue on the A2. Nothing between 20-30kg, which was the most used group of wheels just last year based on EUCw data. The narrow 35-40kg segment alone had numerous new wheels just in the past year. The whole situation is ridiculous.

[The Brahan Seer]

23 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I can’t see the resemblance.

Really? The profile shape is exactly the same. Add a cover and even more so. But looking at it literally then you could miss the resemblance. 

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

On 7/31/2023 at 9:57 AM, techyiam said:

I disagree. Begode Hero.

Let’s break this down.

The known suspension systems when the Adventure design assumedly started were the V11 style and the S18/Begode style. If you go with the linkage system, you have a choice of 1 or 2 sliding tubes per side. 2 is obviously very difficult to get aligned, so 1 makes more sense. Now, how much can the single tube system differ from any other vertical tube system?

The V11 suspension system has been superseded by the successful implementation of the fork style hydraulic struts by Leaper Kim. Additionally, it doesn't have as effective rising rate, and readily replaceable shock and linkage, which Bob Yan said was important for an Inmotion trail wheel. So, Adventure was to have a linkage suspension.

There are different ways to do sliders, and they chose the slider concept used in the Hero. The outer slider tube is rigidly fastened to the hollow axle with the stanchion poking out at both ends. This is to show that Begode didn't do too badly in concept for the sliders among these electric wheel manufacturers. It is just the the implementation was cheaply done. The other copycat move was to place the linkage and shock at the rear. This appeared in the S18 first. For a mono-shock design, it would be more straightforward to locate the shock centrally in the rear, the top, or the front of the wheel. 

Although, having two struts per side would require a more advanced assembly procedure, that doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't be done. It may be feasible,  and yield a more sturdy suspension system with the right design.

Below gives examples of what Inmotion has considered for a linkage suspension design in the past. 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by techyiam

[mhpr262]

14 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You find it ugly? I think it looks good. Not overdesigned, not underdesigned, simple and functional.

It looks like the kind of PEV you could see being ridden by a Jawa in some desert on Tatooine.

[Rollin-on-1]

38 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

It looks like the kind of PEV you could see being ridden by a Jawa in some desert on Tatooine.

The Jawa's ride has cleaner lines.  

[mrelwood]

 

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

There are different ways to do sliders, and they chose the slider concept used in the Hero.

Is there an EUC with a linkage suspensions system with single slider tubes that has a different execution?

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

This is to show that Begode didn't do too badly in concept for the sliders among these electric wheel manufacturers. It is just the the implementation was cheaply done.

I agree. The bad implementation is exactly what has ruined most EUC suspensions.

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

The other copycat move was to place the linkage and shock at the rear. This appeared in the S18 first. For a mono-shock design, it would be more straightforward to locate the shock centrally in the rear, the top, or the front of the wheel.

Each of which wouldn’t make much sense as a whole. The top rear corner places the shock best protected from rain, dust and crashes. It also leaves most room for the controller. It just makes the most sense.

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Although, having two struts per side would require a more advanced assembly procedure, that doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't be done. It may be feasible,  and yield a more sturdy suspension system with the right design.

It would, but it would be much harder to execute. To go with single tubes instead is a realization that double tubes would have too many assembly issues given the facilities they have in use. It just makes more sense.

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Below gives examples of what Inmotion has considered for a linkage suspension design in the past.

Those were designs that hasn’t yet been done, so it made sense to parent a few possible designs that were left. Apparently they weren’t suitable for production though.

 You are right in that the Begode system has good potential in it’s basics construction. Just like the S18 did. It just makes the most sense. But it’s the details and execution that makes it breaks the whole idea. That is left to be seen.

Inmotion has had several firsts when it comes to design elements, but it also takes it’s time to learn from what others test first on some aspects. I see this as one of those things. Hopefully they have honed in the details and found out a good method for assembly. Because those are definitely not something to be learned from others.

[UniVehje]

I hope I didn't start the speculation about who copied who by mentioning it looks like other new wheels in the same category. I think it's ridiculous to discuss it further. All the wheels are copies of each other. All have one wheel, pedals, lights, handles, batteries and suspension in a very tight package. We have open and closed designs, that's it. 

I don't know who had it first in plans or if there has been industrial espionage involved. But Begode came out with first wheel that has somewhat modular structure. That means they can iterate faster with new parts without changing everything else. What matters is quality and implementation of the idea. There are small details that matter and that's where there's room for innovation. The basic concept of modular design should be copied. It just makes sense.

Earlier we've had designs that don't allow any changes without changing everything else also. It's been ok as most parts have been evolving rapidly. But now it starts to be wise to design one good motor that can be fitted with different rims. And one good board that works with different models. And why design suspension for each wheel separately. Just get it right once and then use the same design in every new wheel. Same with batteries, lights, pedals etc. All we need is different wheel sizes and battery configurations. All the other parts can be same. I think Inmotion will have an edge in this as they really did good job with V13 board, battery and motor designs. They don't need to work on them anymore. They only need a good universal suspension and a frame that fits different size rims. Then they can iterate on tire choice and housing for the board and handles. 

This Adventure looks a bit awkward but if you imagine it with a bigger tire, it starts to look more balanced. I really hope this is the modular frame they talked about. It could be a 16" off-roader, 18/20" touring/commuting wheel and a 22" high speed version with massive batteries. Each size class could even come with two battery options. This one design would then serve most enthusiast needs. And if they ever come up with a better version of suspension, board or motor, they can just update the models without changing other parts. Makes it much cheaper to come up with new wheels in the future.

[Funky]

Idiot's only care about who copied who.. Every EUC's is a copy of a copy! Get over it. Same for cars, bicycles, every smartphone, your white undies.. They all are copy of a copy. And in general everything in this world is a copy of a copy.

China number #1.  

Edited August 2, 2023 by Funky

[onewheelkoregro]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Idiot's only care about who copied who.. Every EUC's is a copy of a copy! Get over it. Same for cars, bicycles, every smartphone, your white undies.. They all are copy of a copy. And in general everything in this world is a copy of a copy.

China number #1.  

Don't forget about the Korean batteries! LG and Samsung are both Korean companies! So even if you build your own EUC from the ground up you still need some Asian components 

[onewheelkoregro]

On 8/1/2023 at 4:22 AM, mrelwood said:

By making you sign an NDA…? Are you saying that you plan to break the NDA if you get chosen

I mean if I sign something legally binding I will abide by the contract. But I have signed nothing as of yet. I kinda hope I do get chosen but it is confusing to me that they charge YOU for testing their product. I would seriously do it for $.99 but me having to pay seems ridiculous to me but we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

[onewheelkoregro]

It would be nice to be able to put EUC tester on all my social media as well!

[Funky]

32 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

Don't forget about the Korean batteries! LG and Samsung are both Korean companies! So even if you build your own EUC from the ground up you still need some Asian components 

Everything is made in china.. Even USA flag.  I have zero problem with China Stuff. I have even Xiaomi phone.  

[meepmeepmayer]

Please stay on topic guys

[bpong]

speaking sarcastically,  i certainly hope there are not any huawei components in any of the electronics in any of the eucs.  if there is,  then lo and behold,  there will be another crazy topic created to address the controversies with huawei and u.s. corporate spying.   oooooooo........all those thousands of eucs rolling about the surface of the earth,  relaying top secret data back to huawei in guangdong province, china...  hope y'all not heavily ocd...

[Freeforester]

When they prefect the fastenings, then they’ll be Würth buying… 

The old ones are the old ones, eh? 

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]