Inmotion 16" suspension

[Funky]

9 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Interestingly, the fact that my EUC is bigger than the ones being discussed here actually helps in that regard. We have those little wire square weave baskets over here, and more by luck than judgement if I fold the handles down on the basket and place it on the front / top of my wheel (sitting atop the recessed display section) and then I find the fully extended trolley handle is at the same height as the wires in the basket meaning I can just reach round the handle with my trolley hand and put 4 fingers through the nearest wires before curling them up to grip the handle. Perfect result - secured-in-place basket and shopping gets carried around for you, and you have one hand free all the time for picking stuff off shelves. Now of course that shit won't fly on a 16 incher unless it really is very tall.

Thanks for the idea. You don't mind if i trademark the idea of self balancing grocery carts? I will buy euc's and put a basket on top of them.. Customers will love that!!  

Any point of having something like that? - No.. Would it be looking fun a neat - Absolutely YES!

(Reminds me of god-mod.)

[Cerbera]

40 minutes ago, Funky said:

Thanks for the idea. You don't mind if i trademark the idea of self balancing grocery carts?

No no, help yourself  I think start from BB-8 and work up from there if you want gyro shopping carts...

Back when I was in a busy function band and having to load heavy gear into inaccessible London hotels and whatnot we would have killed for some sort of hover platform.

Now I don't have to do that any more I still feel more smug than normal that I can float my shopping about without having to carry anything. We take our 'little victories' wherever we find them

Edited February 16, 2023 by Cerbera

[Frolic0415]

I wonder if the V14 is what this Inmotion employee was referencing in this post?
https://www.reddit.com/r/INMOTIONworld/comments/z0td7q/what_if_v12ht_with_suspension/

 

[Uras]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:10 PM, Cerbera said:

I would love to know where that originated, because I don't think it's true. I ride a Master, which is just 10 KG lighter than I am in all my armour

Well, of course it's not true. And of course it is true too . It's someone's generalisation, just like the bmi, or so called best practice. It's nothing more than a guideline that someone (madpack?) came up with. For us (my partner and I) it is pretty accurate. We're reasonably fit; it might be too much for some and bugger all for others. This is kind of obvious though, that comments etc aren't absolutes, I thought. If it isn't obvious, then please assume that anything I say is not absolute.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Uras

[Unventor]

On 2/5/2023 at 12:45 PM, Funky said:

Market is already full of heavy turds..  

When we look at something small, same time we are looking for something light. Even T4 is to heavy for 16"... All 16" wheel should be under 25kg in my mind. And that's simply because most lightest 18" wheel is also 25kg.

If 16" wheel is 30-35kg. You can add little bit more weight and rightout get 18" better model. Because at that weight point, you already are going into heavy wheel category.

Maybe but it also comes down to total package size. 

Eg. The gyms and swimming hall lockers in my area do not hold a 18" wheel. And resently I have fully reconsided my use of EUC due to a crash caused of instant puncture at 30km/h on my V11. 

I don't use the wheels at high speed and tend to be more last mile and short distance. 

Now I have not tracked what has been going on in the community mainly due to the obsession of speed that lead to V13. 

Depending on how the V14 is made as easy service is a huge must have for me, I might buy a new wheel like the V14. 

That is not the same for everyone. But my experience with EUC I have ridden, some mass to the wheel is a good thing, but too much for me to handle the wheel is a deal breaker instantly. 

By handling I mean being able to lift it into a car or on a table or a few stairs. I have a bad back so it is not possible "just" train up for more strength. I am 51 years but my back is medical classes as a 80 year old person. 

I use my V10f for now mostly but I miss the suspension of my V11. This is where a V14 could be the sweet spot wheel for me. 

I guess ir is time for me to look into this once again. For me there is a lot to catch up on in what has been going on. 

[Funky]

53 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Maybe but it also comes down to total package size. 

Eg. The gyms and swimming hall lockers in my area do not hold a 18" wheel. And resently I have fully reconsided my use of EUC due to a crash caused of instant puncture at 30km/h on my V11. 

I don't use the wheels at high speed and tend to be more last mile and short distance. 

Now I have not tracked what has been going on in the community mainly due to the obsession of speed that lead to V13. 

Depending on how the V14 is made as easy service is a huge must have for me, I might buy a new wheel like the V14. 

That is not the same for everyone. But my experience with EUC I have ridden, some mass to the wheel is a good thing, but too much for me to handle the wheel is a deal breaker instantly. 

By handling I mean being able to lift it into a car or on a table or a few stairs. I have a bad back so it is not possible "just" train up for more strength. I am 51 years but my back is medical classes as a 80 year old person. 

I use my V10f for now mostly but I miss the suspension of my V11. This is where a V14 could be the sweet spot wheel for me. 

I guess ir is time for me to look into this once again. For me there is a lot to catch up on in what has been going on. 

I'm all for small/light wheels. I personally hate anything heavier than 65lbs/30kg. I personally also don't need more than speed of 45km/h.

All i was saying is that if InMotion is going to build V14 like it's bigger brother V13. It will be well over 65lbs/30kg. Heavier than your V11. :( 

[Unventor]

On 2/19/2023 at 12:54 PM, Funky said:

I'm all for small/light wheels. I personally hate anything heavier than 65lbs/30kg. I personally also don't need more than speed of 45km/h.

All i was saying is that if InMotion is going to build V14 like it's bigger brother V13. It will be well over 65lbs/30kg. Heavier than your V11.

Maybe but making a mini V13 will no doubt be heavier that V5 or V8 or V10f for the pure fact making them slim was focus point of Inmotion. 

But now Inmotion realised that making small slim fit if a wheel means no room for development or simple upgrade option later down the line. To keep development cost tighter they said they are making more "modular" design language of their future models. So that alone means a few extra kg no matter how you go about it. 

But for now I have not seen any facts of the possible V14. I am simply not in close contact as in "the old days" so now I just wait for facts and some reviews and take it from there. 

[Milordas]

First they should fix V12 to battery with passive balancing stuff, then go for next wheel.. as V12 is still buggy as hell

[techyiam]

Just now, Milordas said:

First they should fix V12 to battery with passive balancing stuff, then go for next wheel.. as V12 is still buggy as hell

My V12 top balances fine. 

My V12 is working very well. What bugs are you referring to?

[jimjam.nyc]

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

My V12 top balances fine. 

My V12 is working very well. What bugs are you referring to?

Probably the whole wrongway video. Which I think has been proven to be false already. Atleast regarding v11 and v12. 

[Tr1LL]

As a V11 rider who weighs 150lbs, I think this is a good direction for me. I'd been really looking at the T4's but they aren't enough of an upgrade from the V11 to justify getting one. But the news of the V14 and the LK Patton both being 16" wheels, has left me very intrigued. I'm afraid the Patton is going to be too heavy, but if they can keep the V14 below 70lbs I think this wheel could be a dream. Now I'm salivating for more news. Crazy there are no content creators talking about the V14 news.. 

[Funky]

35 minutes ago, Tr1LL said:

As a V11 rider who weighs 150lbs, I think this is a good direction for me. I'd been really looking at the T4's but they aren't enough of an upgrade from the V11 to justify getting one. But the news of the V14 and the LK Patton both being 16" wheels, has left me very intrigued. I'm afraid the Patton is going to be too heavy, but if they can keep the V14 below 70lbs I think this wheel could be a dream. Now I'm salivating for more news. Crazy there are no content creators talking about the V14 news.. 

75lbs as minimum... Just saying. T4 has same pack and are regular/standard build and it's already ~67lbs. So there is no chance, that V14 will be lighter. Price will be around ~2800-3100$. (V12 is also ~65lbs as reference - no suspension, -+ same battery size, but different cells/groups setup maybe.)

Don't shot the messenger. (I personally also hate anything heavier than 65lbs.)

Edited March 14, 2023 by Funky

[Finn Bjerke]

Now lets see V14 wil be just as bad as V11, V12 and V13?

Bad bearings, Bad CC, bad motor bolts, fake waterproofing? Also overpriced and too heavy, with no good pedals?

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Bad bearings, Bad CC, bad motor bolts, fake waterproofing? Also overpriced and too heavy, with no good pedals?

Are you seriously calling the V13 bad just because of the minor bolts issue ?! What 'fake waterproofing' ? 

And as for price and weight - we all begged them to prioritize safety whilst still giving us performance power and robustness, which is what they did. Of course it is heavier and more expensive ! How could it not be ?!

EDIT: OK, I read your posts over on the other thread. Fair enough. Still think you are way harsh though. There is not a wheel on this earth that hasn't had some problems with batch 1. The V13's problems seem to be less so than what has come before, and I have little doubt that batch 1 owners will be looked after as problems come to light, and that InMotion will address the issues promptly. We await more info on the grinding noise to see if that is happening to more than 1 machine. If it is a bearings thing that might not be IM's fault or might not have been apparent during testing. By way of comparison I know of more than 8 people who have had to fix shit bearings on their Masters, me being one of them ! 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Now lets see V14 wil be just as bad as V11, V12 and V13?

Bad bearings, Bad CC, bad motor bolts, fake waterproofing? Also overpriced and too heavy, with no good pedals?

So generally almost all euc's when they get released? Tell me what's new..

7 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Are you seriously calling the V13 bad just because of the minor bolts issue ?! What 'fake waterproofing' ? 

And as for price and weight - we all begged them to prioritize safety whilst still giving us performance power and robustness, which is what they did. Of course it is heavier and more expensive !

It is bad. No question.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by Funky

[Finn Bjerke]

BAd motor bolts is utterly stupid just like the other errors Inmotion had on V11 and the V12s  - They are generally irresponsible 3 world producers its a bloody Charade ..... Yes the problem on V13 now is fake waterproofing and motor/bearings problems it seems.   The fake waterproof is in a thread on this forum other helpfull links are here FYI

https://www.ecohuman.pl/en/blog/news/inmotion-v13-motor-bearing-problems
 

 

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

BAd motor bolts is utterly stupid just like the other errors Inmotion had on V11 and the V12s  - They are generally irresponsible 3 world producers its a bloody Charade ..... Yes the problem on V13 now is fake waterproofing and motor/bearings problems it seems.   The fake waterproof is in a thread on this forum other helpfull links are here FYI

https://www.ecohuman.pl/en/blog/news/inmotion-v13-motor-bearing-problems
 

 

Yeah I appreciate there are some issues. But we know just from the amount of time this wheel was in planning, development, testing and manufacture that they gave all those processes a damn good go.

But dude - look at the list of wheels you own / ride ! Compared to other manufacturers IM have very minimal problems, and seeing as these manufacturers are the only people to provide us with our much-beloved wheels I don't think it is helpful to describe them as a charade or generally more irresponsible than traders in other sectors. This is bleeding-edge, not yet widely distributed niche transport for a handful of people around the world that would rather have some skill and excitement in their travel plans than just doing what everyone else does and taking the safe / time-proven conventional means of getting about ! I don't think it's right to hold such small and ground-breaking companies to the same standards as their more established equivalents in other / related sectors. Car manufacturers have had 100 bloody years to get it right, and by god didn't they bollocks it up for the first 80 of those !! Have many have EUCs had ? 10, tops ?

There are true charlatans everywhere, but these guys are trying their best, trying to give us what we want, and, if we look at the wider general trends, they do better every time they try ! Is it perfect ? - obviously not, but it's a long way from the clusterfuck you seem to be painting it, and improving all the time...

Everything, from cars to planes to food products get recalled sometimes, or faces enormous fuck-ups in early batches, or at some other stage in the development / evolution and nobody calls them a charade. They fix the problem and try and do better next time. To err is human. Fuck-ups are to be expected.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

30 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Yeah I appreciate there are some issues. But we know just from the amount of time this wheel was in planning, development, testing and manufacture that they gave all those processes a damn good go.

But dude - look at the list of wheels you own / ride ! Compared to other manufacturers IM have very minimal problems, and seeing as these manufacturers are the only people to provide us with our much-beloved wheels I don't think it is helpful to describe them as a charade or generally more irresponsible than traders in other sectors. This is bleeding-edge, not yet widely distributed niche transport for a handful of people around the world that would rather have some skill and excitement in their travel plans than just doing what everyone else does ! I don't think it's right to hold such small and ground-breaking companies to the same standards as their more established equivalents in other / related sectors. Car manufacturers have had 100 bloody years to get it right, and by god didn't they bollocks it up for the first 80 of those !! Have many have EUCs had ? 10, tops ?

There are true charlatans everywhere, but these guys are trying their best, trying to give us what we want, and, if we look at the wider general trends, they do better every time they try ! Is it perfect ? - obviously not, but it's a long way from the clusterfuck you seem to be painting it, and improving all the time...

Everything, from cars to planes to food products get recalled sometimes, or faces enormous fuck-ups in early batches, or at some other stage in the development / evolution and nobody calls them a charade. They fix the problem and try and do better next time. To err is human. Fuck-ups are to be expected.

If engineers can't choose right bolts/screws from the get-go.. They have pretty big problem in their department. Bolts/screws that are made by different people.. They had only one job. To put them together. Same for waterproofing - how hard is it to make it actually waterproof. If design/engineering team isn't made out of monkeys. They could have done it right from the start. I could continue with all their problems. Not only from Inmotion. But all manufacturers suck ass in general. Starting from back-ass designs that don't work in real world. To rig-out idiotic products.

"bleeding-edge" every wheel is the same. Only thing changes is the outside exoskeleton. Adding more volts and bigger battery isn't hard. But companies still make these wheels like it's their first prototype. And at these prices it isn't an excuse to deliver subpar products anymore! Begody wheels alone need extra 500-1000$ to make wheel actually good. - That's just the ice tip.

We could go down the rabbit hole how every single EUC ever made is somewhat, in some way made bad. Or simply made in dumb way. Even my beloved 18XL isn't perfect. Not a single euc has been made perfect right out of the box. Every single one needs some work. Or something done.

 

Sorry for the rant. I'm just sick and tired seeing these idiotic/subpar releases..

Edited March 15, 2023 by Funky

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

They have pretty big problem in their department. Bolts/screws that are made by different people.. They had only one job. To put them together.

How do you know they chose the wrong ones ? Could there not have been an un-notified change in specification by a supplier, which would obviously take some time to come to light ? We don't know the reason for this yet. The V13 is a very new machine - there is a LOT we don't know yet !

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Same for waterproofing - how hard is it to make it actually waterproof.

Well if it's a hand-done process, and it looks like it is / has to be, then yes, it is hard, with all those utterly irregular shapes and gap-filling around cables etc etc that has to go on, and there is much scope for human error ! The guy that missed that tiny bit had probably just done 50 without a mistake ! Just because 1 or 2 people find a little bit somewhere that doesn't have immaculate waterproofing doesn't mean they all have shitty waterproofing everywhere, or that there is a fundamental flaw in the design that allowed it (unlike a certain other EUC company whose name immediately springs to mind!). 

I'm just sayin' - it took months of effort and about a grand on top of the asking price to get my Master fully finished and as brilliant as I wanted it to be, by comparison to that the V13 and its 8 easily replaceable bolts seems... not in the same league.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

How do you know they chose the wrong ones ? Could there not have been an un-notified change in specification by a supplier, which would obviously take some time to come to light ? We don't know the reason for this yet. The V13 is a very new machine - there is a LOT we don't know yet !

Well if it's a hand-done process, and it looks like it is / has to be, then yes, it is hard, with all those utterly irregular shapes and gap-filling around cables etc etc that has to go on, and there is much scope for human error ! The guy that missed that tiny bit had probably just done 50 without a mistake ! Just because 1 or 2 people find a little bit somewhere that doesn't have immaculate waterproofing doesn't mean they all have shitty waterproofing everywhere, or that there is a fundamental flaw in the design that allowed it (unlike a certain other EUC company whose name immediately springs to mind!). 

I'm just sayin' - it took months of effort and about a grand on top of the asking price to get my Master fully finished and as brilliant as I wanted it to be, by comparison to that the V13 and its 8 easily replaceable bolts seems... not in the same league.

 

 

Well someone is at fault. It's always someone's fault, be engineers putting to small bolts in. Too close to each proximity, so on..

But you just made my point/case. Making dumb designs, that are not working.. (It more or less looks like designers give a paper drawing and engineers need to make it work.. It should be other way around. Engineers telling what works and what not!)

Same for testing. And quality control. It looks like there haven't been enough..

[Finn Bjerke]

Why are riders defending overpriced shit? Let inmotion do that. Why should riders assume inmotion are lying again and again? 

 

Inmotion are lying thru their teeth about waterproofing... That is illegal. Im sick of repairing my eucs, im sick and tired of lies about chinesium, waterproofing, bearings etc. 

Should we Blame the  subcontractors and buy bad, dangerous vehicles?

 

Gawd im sick of this... 

[Finn Bjerke]

Here is another example of Inmotions flaws, Im not hopefull for future products bad motor cough

[Robse]

Breathe & smile

Right - there are errors on virtually all new wheels. Much needs to be improved.
But it is not worse than what almost all others on the market undertake.
A few good examples: BMW cars that catch fire - known problem, factory defect.
VW ID3 and ID4 cars sold én masse, with semi-finished software. So big
and grave mistakes that ALL these NEW cars have had to go to a workshop
in order to get going.  TESLA is notorious for door handles falling off
off, as well as leaks at the tailgate = water in the cabin...
Defective charging cables for electric cars. Promise of range that has
nothing to do with reality. Bullshit, mistakes, errors.  And it goes on and on.

Take it as it is. Buying EUC is like having children. They are perfect
when they come into the world, but far from finished. They leak and need to be
looked after, corrected, educated, trained. maintained for many years...

In fact, I would think that most EUC's are not suitable for off road or riding
in wet weather at all.  And now with the advent of suspension wheels the problem
just become even bigger because you always have the challenge of carrying the current
from the fixed and static part of the wheel out to the part that moves up/down.
This will always be a challenge where cables are routed through / must be able to
move. Several moving parts, joints, seals, pistons, bearings... problems.

It's take it or leave it. If you want to ride in mud and water
then errors and repairs follow. It is inevitable.
And otherwise: Wait to buy wheels until they have been on the market
for 2 - 3 years.

[Pablocavern]

34 minutes ago, Robse said:

And otherwise: Wait to buy wheels until they have been on the market
for 2 - 3 years.

And part of the problem is that we have come to feel that 2 or 3 years is an eternity.

I think that companies can have dishonest behaviors in relation to what they promise and what it really is. However it is also true that we are expecting novelties and innovation every year, which leads to companies seeing it more profitable to bring out new models than to improve and update existing models, and as quick changes mean less control bugs appear constantly. I suspect that if the v14 was a new version of the v11 with all its problems solved and a better suspension, but the same in all other aspects, it would be very reliable and effective, but more difficult to sell than a brand new wheel with all the problems that implies. 

I think the wheel that has had more updates is the v8, but it is also a wheel for a very specific profile that only wants a small commuter and does not care if it is powerful, has suspension or many volts. In relation to marketing, we behave like impressionable children preferring surprises and fantastic novelties to what responds better to the needs from a strictly rational point of view (I'm like that too XD). My feeling is that Inmotion is really trying to differentiate themselves from Begode with respect to reliability, and they are investing real money in it. You can see this in the wheel teardowns of both brands where you can tell that difference. However, I think those efforts fall short because the competition demands to bring wheels to market too quickly and this makes it difficult to control all the variables of the innovations implemented. 

Well, I am not an engineer and these are intuitions so maybe there is someone who knows more who can discuss them.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[The Brahan Seer]

@Finn Bjerke  I feel your frustration. It doesn't seem to matter which company you buy from none of them can provide the safety we are looking for atm.

Some manufacturers build their wheels to a high standard but this doesn't equate to safety. They still suffer the same degree of engineering flaws everyone else does.

The market hopefully will mature in time or worst case we are in a period in history where there isn't the time, money, resources or expertise available to produce a decent product until the patents are opened up. 

Would i buy an inmotion wheel? last year I was tempted by the V12 but having seen the issues with this and subsequent wheels design choices etc i'm not interested. But I can say the exact same thing about Kingsong, Veteran and EB too. 

So that leaves Begode. Although the wheels might be built like crap they cost significantly less and suffer no more engineering issues than anyone else [it also feels like they are making progress on better designs and construction than their previous efforts]

But we do hear all the negative and problems wheels have here on the forum. It would be nice to know exactly what  proportion of wheels sold have such problems after the first batch.