Inmotion 16" suspension

[2disbetter]

I think, if the leak is legit, that this will be a fantastic wheel. To me it sounds like the true replacement to the V11. That is a steady and rock solution platform to work from as well. Lots of learned data, and a soild base. 

I'm curious about how the linkage based suspension will be implemented. I'm also slightly annoyed that I just bought a V12 HT. Still no regrets. That wheel is super solid, and I've been able to learn so much on it. 

[Funky]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

So, 16” 2000W 1500Wh 27kg 35mph for $3000. Do you think that it would sell well?

Disregarding the wheel size, you are actually exactly describing the V11 here. Except the V11 costs a lot less.

I think you meant ks16x.  But little bit slower. And much, much cheaper.

My perfect wheel is begode RS - just made by some "better" company.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Funky

[conecones]

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

By the time the V14 is out, the Master in the above quote can already be replaced with something else. Why try to compete with Master, CP, ShermS and S22 with yet another similar model, when the T4 is all alone creating it’s own market category? There’s much more room in small and mid sized wheel categories.

Wouldn’t they be even much more late to the Master/S22/CP/ShermS party then?

What I forgot to say in my previous post was that I'm looking at it from the perspective that 16" and 22" wheels are both niche categories and that IM missed the boat on their last three releases to make a performance 20" wheel. This may just be my opinion but 20" wheels are the sweet spot between torque, top speed, and stability, and the market seems to agree seeing that 20" wheels are the most popular size. If IM had went with a proven popular formula such as 20" 3600WH V13 and a 20" 1800WH V12/V14, they would convince a lot more buyers to switch brands.

IMO 16" wheels are destined to be lower speed inner city wheels and for that purpose I don't think suspension is even necessary like it is for the higher speed wheels. 16" EUC market is already super saturated and treated as a beginner/first wheel category.

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Not sure what you mean. V12 was one of the fastest wheels when it came out.

Fastest 16" wheel yes. They also claimed it was made to compete with the Sherman which as we all know did not even come close.

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Alone in the 20” ~34kg wheel category? I must be missing your point completely.

Alone in the 20" 1800WH suspension category. Between a 16" 1800WH suspension wheel and a 20" version, I would take the 20" every time as the small weight penalty is worth it for the stability, top speed, tire choices.

[2disbetter]

About the only thing I would REALLY like to see on a 16" wheel is 40 mph (70 kph). I know people say it isn't that safe on a non-suspended 16" wheel, but I want the ability to do that at least. 

I mean this and suspension? Seems like a REALLY good combination. 

I'd really like a picture of the wheel. Hope one leaks. 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Uras]

22 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I'm glad IM is taking it's time to compete with smaller wheels, where the wheels are all older and do not offer new wheel benefits. Dpn't think it's a missed opportunity at all.

yes, I agree. Not everyone needs a behemoth. I'm after an agile and highly maneuverable all rounder. I have a 16" now, and I'll hang onto it till there's a decent suspension wheel and then after it's been out for a year or so. I think many folk lose the point - they won't realise till they ride a smaller wheel again. Apparently Kingsong is bringing out an s16 too.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Uras

[Uras]

19 hours ago, Funky said:

ks16s ~ 17 kg. inmotion v8 ~ 15 kg. begode tesla ~ 22kg

I love the 16" wheel size and agree with weight etc - the problem with the wheels you have mentioned though is torque. They're all pretty shitty. I bought a 16x, so happy I did because I love its torque. 70km real range is awesome too. Maybe they match small battery size with smaller motor? The voltage drops on my 16x along with battery used, but it is still reasonable to 40%. 1600 or 1800wh seems like a sweet spot for reasonable torque.

The tesla seems the best of that lot, but is lightly built for a non suspension wheel (skinny tire etc). Still down on torque too.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Uras

[MrMonoWheel]

On 2/4/2023 at 8:44 AM, Funky said:

Also hate linkage suspension..

Battery pack still TOO BIG.

At least IP67.. That's something.  "Smart" BMS??? Are they really smart??? Where you can see each cell voltage? Or regular smart BMS..

I'm calling it right now, it will be ~2800$. And weight will be the same as T4, around 30kg. (Maybe ~32kg) (My guess about V13 was spot on.) All you need to know is battery pack size and if it has a suspension, to tell the price/weight. As it's coming from InMotion their wheel line is bit pricier.. So yeah price can be around there.

 

Too big/heavy for what i want.  Same thing as T4.. Only with better build quality coming from InMotion. Meh, could have been smaller/lighter..

I'll fix the date - they mean August, not June. Perfect wheel to buy for 2024 summer. If someone wants it.

Maybe you should just buy an mTen4. I can see it now, just like the other threads it will be countless Funky posts full of pessimism and negativity. I'm loving all the new wheels coming out and wish I could own them all.

Edited February 6, 2023 by MrMonoWheel

[2disbetter]

16 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

I'm loving all the new wheels coming out and wish I could own them all.

You and me both! 

Being able to find the sweet spot just requires being able to try so many wheels. Maybe a 20" wheel felt best but a 18" wheel engineered differently might feel better? Just a lot of variables, and I would say there aren't any real hard defines just yet in the EUC world. I think the V14 has the potential to be a real contender though. 

Regarding the price of the V14; I would guess that it would be closer to 3 grand. The V12 HT costs around 25-2700 already, with no suspension, etc. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Funky]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Maybe you should just buy an mTen4. I can see it now, just like the other threads it will be countless Funky posts full of pessimism and negativity. I'm loving all the new wheels coming out and wish I could own them all.

Why the heck you are posting here. Go back to your Super-Duper. Heavy mucho. Small peanut wheel treads.  (Joke.)

 

I'm not being negative/pessimistic, i'm saying/calling how it is. (You are being "forum bully" calling people out for nothing. It makes me laugh that you have a problem with me.)  If they wanna make a "smaller" wheel. Then make a smaller wheel, not almost the same weight as big ones. (5-7kg difference from 16" to 18". I would gladly take 5kg weight for bigger tire.)

In your eyes every wheel seems are amazing.. (One could say that your input are pointless also then. Because you have zero problems with any wheel.) No grapes at all? No worrying afterthoughts about how/why manufacturers went that way about building the wheel? If i see something that is, or may be a problem down the road. I simply steer clear from that product. - Because in my eyes it's not worth the money. It helps if you have been following new releases and teardown videos. You can clearly see wheels are getting faster, better. BUT same time the small things.. quality control, etc.. Are going down. If you are paying 3000$ for a wheel. You would thought they would be better built.

Even youtubers are calling out some wheels being shit!. (By shit - i mean that those wheel aren't the best built, best performing and so on.)

Nah sadly mten4 is a begode wheel - automatically a no, no for me. Doh if they ever make something "actually good". I would buy from them. (Also i'm to big for that wheel. Otherwise it would be JUST PERFECT!. Also i would want to have 16" tire not 10". Even better 18".)

Spoiler

Have a great day Sir/Lady/Donkey!  (You can choose which one you are.) <3

Yeah i'm posting here and there. Because i have nothing better to do and my life is dull.. Are you happy now?  

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Funky

[conecones]

On 2/5/2023 at 4:23 AM, Drunkard said:

That is the issue with all new wheels, they are built to compete with the bigger wheels. That's how we end up in the land of 53KG wheels in the first place.. I'm glad IM is taking it's time to compete with smaller wheels, where the wheels are all older and do not offer new wheel benefits. Dpn't think it's a missed opportunity at all. 

 

You see T4 is already out for a bit and I don't see it taking over the category. And it's because T4 is made by begode.. I will pay extra for smart BMS, proper water proofing, proper protection for batteries.. list goes on. I don't see any wheels made by begode to be viable options until they get there shit together.

IM just spent considerable time designing and releasing the heaviest wheel to date, and now they want to release another 16" wheel. This decision baffles me as they could have instead release just ONE wheel in the 20" size to compete with the Master/S22 which are the top sellers. I don't get why IM continuously disadvantages themselves by releasing wheels with specs that don't match the popular Begode and Veteran wheels. They don't need to re-invent the wheel, they literally just need to copy the specs of the tried and tested models: Sherman, Master, S22, RS, or EXN, and combine it with the Inmotion build quality and good battery protection, and they are guaranteed to have a popular product.

The way they've been releasing wheels recently just causes hesitant Begode owners (like myself) to keep buying Begode because there's no IM equivalent. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by conecones

[Roadpower]

I don't want Inmotion to be Begode... In fact that is about the last thing I want.

[2disbetter]

5 minutes ago, conecones said:

popular Begode and Veteran wheels.

without having the numbers for something like this, it is hard to say this is the case. Maybe Inmotion has other pieces of data that say otherwise, and this is what they choose to act on? 

Personally a 16" wheel makes a lot of sense, because of how agile the wheel will be. If they add suspension and a bit more weight it should be more stable as well. 

[techyiam]

I think wheels with big fat 16" tires can be nice wheels for offroad, commuting, or as a step up from a 50 lbs. or less learner's wheel. 

I think Inmotion decided on the V14's specs after evaluating their online surveys' results.

It appears the Sherman-S 16" is after a market that wants a wheel that is easier to ride than their Sherman-S, but still wants decent speed. 

[conecones]

 

45 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

without having the numbers for something like this, it is hard to say this is the case. Maybe Inmotion has other pieces of data that say otherwise, and this is what they choose to act on? 

Personally a 16" wheel makes a lot of sense, because of how agile the wheel will be. If they add suspension and a bit more weight it should be more stable as well. 

But we do have the numbers....the Master was a best seller in 2022, and Veteran only had two models, one of which was a failure. Maybe Inmotion has the sales numbers to justify another 16" wheel, but it's also worth noting that specification wise, Inmotion's previous flagship (V12) is basically a copy of a dated but extremely popular Gotway wheel (Nikola Plus) from 2019...so there is already evidence that this formula works: Copy specs of  popular Gotway wheel -> create IM version with better quality. 

BTW this was literally the reason why I sold my Nikola Plus and replaced it with a V12 - but unfortunately I got the cut-out board version and had no choice but to go back to Gotway and get an EXN which is on a completely different level compared to the V12 and made me appreciate the stability of a 20" wheel when riding 60+ km/h while still remaining nimble for slower speed.

Edited February 6, 2023 by conecones

[conecones]

edit above

Edited February 6, 2023 by conecones

[Flygonial]

Funnily enough, this is pretty much the wheel I wanted before settling on the S22: 16", good weight sweet spot, likely able to cruise in the 30s (I sure hope so, at least), and suspension. The T4 tempted me for a bit but concerns over waterproofing and durability made me want to hold off, even after the quick switch to QS for motor manufacturing. I wouldn't want to trade out 20" now, but it's cool to see that the rumors of Inmotion going for a design like this seem to be coming to fruition. After a few batches and another year or more, I can see myself picking up one if I didn't have a wheel for whatever reason (moving associated issues with legality or not being able to find a rider group).

Hope that the swingarm suspension learns from the mistakes of other designs and doesn't hold this design back. We've seen with S22 sliders that it can be quite a plush feeling mechanism, just hope it's engineered for slider channels closed from water ingress (if that's how they even execute it). I am also a little disappointed it's not 20" (I'd personally like the idea of 18" too but I assume they don't want to tread on the V11's toes too much), as I do feel this ends up overlapping quite a bit with the V12 (on all specs save for suspension) and the thought of a 20" Inmotion wheel is something I'd have shelled out for if I didn't already pick one up. Regardless, I do still think this is a solid contender and something that'll sell for durability, reliability, and waterproofing alone relative to it's competitors (of course, fingers crossed as we all know how early batches go).

[Uras]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:10 AM, Funky said:

I think you meant ks16x.  But little bit slower. And much, much cheaper.

My perfect wheel is begode RS - just made by some "better" company.

16x is 2200. I live in steep and short hilly area and this has enough torque for me. The inmotion v12ht is supposedly no more torque than the hs version and possibly the 16x (climbing ability), but carries a stronger, heavier wheel and tire. Considering the v12 ht is 2800wh motor - so I'd like something like that if it is robust. If it had torque (to the ground) the same as 16x, I'd be happy. More is never wasted - I'd use it 

[UniVehje]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:35 AM, conecones said:

What I forgot to say in my previous post was that I'm looking at it from the perspective that 16" and 22" wheels are both niche categories and that IM missed the boat on their last three releases to make a performance 20" wheel.

Although I disagree with 16" category being a niche, I agree with the point here. They seem to want to fill all the categories with suspension before making the best move and bring another suspension wheel to the 18/19/20" category. The V11 can stay as it is. It's a very comfortable and nice wheel for any commuter. Probably still one of the best choices for majority of riders. But this size class (the sweet spot) needs another suspension wheel from Inmotion. Just take the best parts of V11 and V13 and they have a best seller.

While I'm still left waiting for the V11 with bigger battery and second generation suspension, I still welcome this new 16" wheel. The V12 has so many things right, just needed suspension. Definitely worth reusing everything else and add suspension. This size class is perfect for stop-and-go city commuting and for nimble riding. 

22 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

Maybe a 20" wheel felt best but a 18" wheel engineered differently might feel better?

 

10 hours ago, Flygonial said:

I am also a little disappointed it's not 20" (I'd personally like the idea of 18" too but I assume they don't want to tread on the V11's toes too much)

Seems like a good time for the regular reminder that wheels called 18", 19" and 20" are all the same size with 14" rim fitted with 18x3" or 2.75-14 or similar tires. The lack of common naming convention for this category is really confusing for new riders. The 16" category seems more stable with the naming convention while it actually would benefit with using different numbers. For example V8, V10 and V12 are all 16" while vastly different in tire size. 

[Uras]

The v11 is a 2200wh motor, 1500wh 84v battery; this is the same as the 16x, but the 16x has a smaller wheel. The 16x, all else being equal, should have more torque. This is why I passed on the v11; it doesn't excite me at all. The v12ht should be the ants pants, but somehow isn't.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Uras

[UniVehje]

3 minutes ago, Uras said:

The v11 is a 2200wh motor, 1500wh 84v battery; this is the same as the 16x, but the 16x has a smaller wheel. The 16x, all else being equal, should have more torque. This is why I passed on the v11; it doesn't excite me at all. The v12ht should be the ants pants, but somehow isn't.

Motor wattage is really an irrelevant number. But the 16X does feel more effortless to accelerate. And it really doesn't matter how many torques the V11 or any similar size wheel has, they will still feel more sluggish compared to a 16" wheel. V11 is better for relaxed straight riding and 16X or V12 better for effortless acceleration and smaller turning circle. If you test a V12, you really should test all the settings. It should feel similar to 16X. 

[meepmeepmayer]

I think the V11 will have better longevity than the V12 (despite being older), precisely because it does have a suspension. The V12 is a really nice wheel, but I wouldn't buy it due to the lack of suspension. It's not a bad choice for IM to "upgrade" the V12 first and make this V14.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to be the fastest in designing new wheels, and don't like reusing existing components/designs which would quicken the development process. So I assume they had to choose between the V14 and another 18/20 incher (not both development in parallel), and the decision is probably a year old already (when the V11 was even less old and the T4 was unknown). It does make some sense.

But yeah, a "same as the others last year, but with build quality" competitive suspension 20 incher with big battery would have been nice, too. But it's the most crowded market and the V11 exists already.

-

Semi-OT: @Uras Motor wattage number really don't mean anything on their own. The firmware and geometry of the wheel decide how powerful, zippy, oomph-y, whatever you want to call it behaves in real life. Sure, with a smaller tire will always be easier to use the torque than with a bigger one, but apart from that, only real world comparison can tell. Please don't conclude anything about a wheel from some motor wattage number alone, or dismiss a wheel due to it.

5 hours ago, UniVehje said:

Seems like a good time for the regular reminder that wheels called 18", 19" and 20" are all the same size with 14" rim fitted with 18x3" or 2.75-14 or similar tires. The lack of common naming convention for this category is really confusing for new riders. The 16" category seems more stable with the naming convention while it actually would benefit with using different numbers. For example V8, V10 and V12 are all 16" while vastly different in tire size. 

18, 19, and 20 all mean the same, and 16 (Tesla, 16S) and 16 (V12, T4, Nikola, 16X) don't mean the same at all. It's a mess

[alcatraz]

Samsung 50S cells cost a fortune. At least they did. 

I hope they make the wheel relatively lightweight and it will certainly be a potential candidate for city life/commuting.

[Frolic0415]

Super keen for a 16" suspension wheel. I love my KS16X and V12 HS, but I wish my V12 had suspension. There's rumours that Veteran are making a smaller suspension wheel as well, I'm keen for more 16-19" suspension wheels in this current market.

[techyiam]

I hope the rumor got it wrong with the V14, given that Leaper Kim is coming out with a 126V, 16" wheel with 2200Wh battery. 

The safety features will win points, but the specs aren't competitive, so it may end up being another V13.

In the big heavy wheel class, the Sherman-S appears to be selling well, while the V13 seems lagging behind in sales.

As it is turning out, the sweet spot for big heavy wheels is something like a great suspension, 3600Wh, 20", high build quality, decent torque, 55-ish mph top speed, and decent weather proofing. 

For the new 16" suspension class, I think the Sherman-S 16" is going to lead the way.

To compete, you are going to need great suspension, 2200Wh battery, good torque, high build quality, 126+ volt, decent top speed, and decent weather proofing. 

I think the market wiil opt for 126+ V over high discharge 50S cells.

Also, regarding weight, the V12 HS is already 65-ish lbs. My guess is the V14 will weigh 70+ lbs.

It won't be a 60 lbs suspension wheel.

[2disbetter]

You know, I think the wheel size discussion here is very relevant, but one counterpoint I wanted to add was that there is more than just having the best specs, when all the specs are kind of similar. Before I bought any wheel, I REALLY wanted a Sherman Max. I got one, but because of shipping issues, it ended up going to my brother. He is riding it now. As fate would have it, the V12 HT would be the very first wheel I would get. 

My point is that, I've seen the display on the Sherman Max, I know about the app situation, and setting the wheel up. It is just MUCH MUCH better on the V12 HT. Is the Max faster? Will it go farther? Yep. I'm still thinking about one, but honestly if I never get one, it would be ok. Inmotion's quality and polish is just so much better than the competition. 

I think this really does matter. For this reason I think the V14 might be a sleeper of a contender, but I think it could have a lot of potential.