Inmotion 16" suspension

[PourUC]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:26 AM, Funky said:

Doh if you had option of choosing from Sherman-S suspension vs Master/S22 suspension. I think most would say that S-S suspension is way better. Also it doesn't have that shitty "tail" links.

I wonder why they went that way.. All new suspension wheels should have S-S type suspension NOW! Nothing else.  No back tail - even less moving parts.

 

 

And in my case - no suspension at all would be BEST.  

If my S22 came with the roller bearings it has now I would choose it hands down. Some of us jump our wheels believe it or not, and having more travel helps.

[techyiam]

49 minutes ago, Pablocavern said:

In Spain, scooter-type motorcycles can be bought for 3,000 Euros (4,000 - 1,000 Euros paid by the state) with 60m of autonomy and a maximum speed of 65mph. https://becomove.com/nextmojito/

That is not really a motorcycle. That is a low power thing that is heavy and gutless. And they are not allowed in bike lanes.

For me, I would rather ride my CBR125R, or my Ninja 300 in traffic.

49 minutes ago, Pablocavern said:

I agree that electric motorcycles only make sense for the city. In that sense I think that the EUC can not replace some capabilities of motorcycles and cars, such as driving on highways.  In most European cities, streets can be driven at low speeds (at 31mph and in some at 20mph), which is ideal for using the EUC. So why do I want more speed than, say, 35mph which would already be more than double the legal EUC speed in Europe? If I need to go 65mph it is because I am going to use the freeway and then I need a motorcycle or a car. I agree with you that the EUC is the perfect vehicle for city streets, but for that reason it shouldn't be too heavy and doesn't need to be too fast or have a huge range for everyday use.

Agreed, I would not ride that gutless thing on the freeway. 

In the city, in Canada and US, I can ride on roads too. And speeds vary.

Before you can understand, you may have to learn to ride big heavy wheels first. You need know what they are capable of. Then you need to see what kind of roads and traffic situations are there in order to see how one can ride in these situations. 

It is pretty clear to me that many US riders are not riding at 15.4 mph (25 km/h) .

Join a group ride hosted by Dawn Champion in the US with your V10F, and see how many seconds before you will be riding solo in a group ride, and never to see the group again. Marty's group is already on Master Pro's and 3600Wh wheels.

On my V12, after a few kilometers runs at 70 km/h, I was already down to about 70% battery from full. 

A regular 20 km/h trip drains the battery from full to about 60+ %? 

It all depends on your use case. 

But going back to the original question, electric motorcycles are not competitively priced to electric wheels, and are no way as flexible for urban commuting. Junky electric scooters (LSM's) are not competitive to electric wheels, at least the ones that I have seen. 

49 minutes ago, Pablocavern said:

seeing the EUC as the perfect commuter, it seems strange to me that manufacturers are not paying much attention to the most common urban uses.

They are already built, have and have been in production for a while, so they are tried and true.

However, manufacturers are businesses. If they invest in developing and producing a new model, they need to see a favorable return on their investment. 

The best sellers right now is not the V10F. The Sherman Max sold very well, though. The V11 sold well too.

But can any manufacturers build a V11 killer for the same price and weight as the original V11? I suspect it is highly doubtful. 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by techyiam

[Robse]

Have been following this thread with wonder...  now I'm going to have to say; Why on earth don't they make it as a 18" or 19" wheel ?

[Pablocavern]

42 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That is not really a motorcycle. That is a low power thing that is heavy and gutless. And they are not allowed in bike lanes.

For me, I would rather ride my CBR125R, or my Ninja 300 in traffic.

Agreed, I would not ride that gutless thing on the freeway. 

In the city, in Canada and US, I can ride on roads too. And speeds vary.

Before you can understand, you may have to learn to ride big heavy wheels first. You need know what they are capable of. Then you need to see what kind of roads and traffic situations are there in order to see how one can ride in these situations. 

It is pretty clear to me that many US riders are not riding at 15.4 mph (25 km/h) .

Join a group ride hosted by Dawn Champion in the US with your V10F, and see how many seconds before you will be riding solo in a group ride, and never to see the group again. Marty's group is already on Master Pro's and 3600Wh wheels.

On my V12, after a few kilometers runs at 70 km/h, I was already down to about 70% battery from full. 

A regular 20 km/h trip drains the battery from full to about 60+ %? 

It all depends on your use case. 

But going back to the original question, electric motorcycles are not competitively priced to electric wheels, and are no way as flexible for urban commuting. Junky electric scooters (LSM's) are not competitive to electric wheels, at least the ones that I have seen. 

They are already built, have and have been in production for a while, so they are tried and true.

However, manufacturers are businesses. If they invest in developing and producing a new model, they need to see a favorable return on their investment. 

The best sellers right now is not the V10F. The Sherman Max sold very well, though. The V11 sold well too.

But can any manufacturers build a V11 killer for the same price and weight as the original V11? I suspect it is highly doubtful. 

 

It seems to me that you say some interesting things about the big wheels and I would like to try them, really. But I insist that if the v10f is the one that has sold the most, it is because the needs of the people have to do with practicality as well as strong emotions (and gutless). You say that the v11 is difficult to improve but that could have been said of one of the initial big wheels. I think now is the time for a new generation of reliable small wheels with suspension for the city that respond to this niche market. Precisely that there are rumors that Inmotion, LeaperKim and Kingsong are working on it is because there is a market even though T4 has been brought forward.
 

[techyiam]

17 minutes ago, Pablocavern said:

LeaperKim and Kingsong are working on it is because there is a market even though T4 has been brought forward.
 

The T4 is now listed at eWheels as weighing about 70 lbs.

These other wheels such as the Sherman-S 16" with 2220Wh battery are going to be significantly heavier. 

These new 16" wheels are not light weight. They are going to be most likely 70+ lbs. wheels. 

The Sherman iis only 77 lbs. That was considered a big heavy wheel about a year or so ago.

[Funky]

39 minutes ago, Robse said:

Have been following this thread with wonder...  now I'm going to have to say; Why on earth don't they make it as a 18" or 19" wheel ?

Yeah.. The weight already is 30kg - it's a heavy wheel..

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The T4 is now listed at eWheels as weighing about 70 lbs.

These other wheels such as the Sherman-S 16" with 2220Wh battery are going to be significantly heavier. 

These new 16" wheels are not light weight. They are going to be most likely 70+ lbs. wheels. 

The Sherman iis only 77 lbs. That was considered a big heavy wheel about a year or so ago.

It still is big/heavy.  Nothing has changed. People just have got it in mind that 40kg wheels are the "norm" nowadays. Which is simply wrong to think..

 

Light wheels are 10-20kg. Mid range wheels are 20-30kg. Heavy wheels are 30kg+. (It will never change. - Because people aren't getting "stronger".)

[Robse]

49 minutes ago, Funky said:

Yeah.. The weight already is 30kg - it's a heavy wheel..

It still is big/heavy.  Nothing has changed. People just have got it in mind that 40kg wheels are the "norm" nowadays. Which is simply wrong to think..

 

Light wheels are 10-20kg. Mid range wheels are 20-30kg. Heavy wheels are 30kg+. (It will never change. - Because people aren't getting "stronger".)

I just want a RS19, build quality like KS 16X, no f****** suspension, no speakers, just well build 18" wheel, waterproof, 1500 -2000 watt bat.  Sigh!

[PourUC]

1 minute ago, Robse said:

I just want a RS19, build quality like KS 16X, no f****** suspension, no speakers, just well build 18" wheel, waterproof, 1500 -2000 watt bat.  Sigh!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003888316909.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.532796aeA6j37g&algo_pvid=26c2950a-af9e-4967-b648-090d401b04cc&algo_exp_id=26c2950a-af9e-4967-b648-090d401b04cc-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000030456508830"}&pdp_npi=3%40dis!GBP!1828.36!1828.36!!!!!%402100bc5c16760382870398742d06d8!12000030456508830!sea!UK!0&curPageLogUid=xN7anwDcRVwx

Not waterproof, but there you go.

People want a unicorn wheel but don't show any interest in products that lean towards what they want. Why would manufacturers build this wheel when the last entry in the line of no thrills bare bones wheels had essentially 0 interest from the community.
 

[Funky]

5 minutes ago, Robse said:

I just want a RS19, build quality like KS 16X, no f****** suspension, no speakers, just well build 18" wheel, waterproof, 1500 -2000 watt bat.  Sigh!

RS is my dream wheel also. But i want it be made by different manufacturer.  Lightest 18x3" wheel. <3 Without problems of suspension.

2 minutes ago, PourUC said:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003888316909.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.532796aeA6j37g&algo_pvid=26c2950a-af9e-4967-b648-090d401b04cc&algo_exp_id=26c2950a-af9e-4967-b648-090d401b04cc-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000030456508830"}&pdp_npi=3%40dis!GBP!1828.36!1828.36!!!!!%402100bc5c16760382870398742d06d8!12000030456508830!sea!UK!0&curPageLogUid=xN7anwDcRVwx

Not waterproof, but there you go.

People want a unicorn wheel but don't show any interest in products that lean towards what they want. Why would manufacturers build this wheel when the last entry in the line of no thrills bare bones wheels had essentially 0 interest from the community.
 

It's same begode..

Edited February 10, 2023 by Funky

[PourUC]

5 minutes ago, Funky said:

RS is my dream wheel also. But i want it be made by different manufacturer.  Lightest 18x3" wheel. <3 Without problems of suspension.

It's same begode..

Why would anyone else make a competitor to a wheel that didn't sell though.

I get you wanting it, but realistically it's simply not going to happen.

[Robse]

11 minutes ago, PourUC said:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003888316909.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.532796aeA6j37g&algo_pvid=26c2950a-af9e-4967-b648-090d401b04cc&algo_exp_id=26c2950a-af9e-4967-b648-090d401b04cc-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000030456508830"}&pdp_npi=3%40dis!GBP!1828.36!1828.36!!!!!%402100bc5c16760382870398742d06d8!12000030456508830!sea!UK!0&curPageLogUid=xN7anwDcRVwx

Not waterproof, but there you go.

People want a unicorn wheel but don't show any interest in products that lean towards what they want. Why would manufacturers build this wheel when the last entry in the line of no thrills bare bones wheels had essentially 0 interest from the community.
 

That wheel is just one big piece of crap.  But thx anyway

[Funky]

9 minutes ago, PourUC said:

Why would anyone else make a competitor to a wheel that didn't sell though.

I get you wanting it, but realistically it's simply not going to happen.

None wanted it - because it's built like shit.. Doh..

Edited February 10, 2023 by Funky

[PourUC]

6 minutes ago, Robse said:

That wheel is just one big piece of crap.  But thx anyway

Reviews say otherwise. The things that make it crap are seemingly the things you want. No suspension, less range than sherman, etc.

It's objectively better built than the RS which seemed to be the request. 

Edit: 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by PourUC

[PourUC]

3 minutes ago, Funky said:

None wanted it - because it's built like shit.. Doh..

It's objectively better built than the RS.

No one wanted it because it's an RS for more money. Don't pretend otherwise.

1) As much as people pretend they don't like suspension, most people wanted it.

2) People pretended to hate on the RS, but when this was revealed people's main critisism before it was even available was essentially "why get that when you can get an RS instead".

Please don't introduce lies into this. It was nothing to do with the build quality, because it's better built than the RS. The plastic shell RS known for lights going randomly, water ingress and a cracked shell if you drop it the magical number of times.

To be clear I am not saying the RS is bad. But the reason I linked it in the first place is because people here are saying they want a better build quality RS. This is that. People's stubborness is what held this wheel back, nothing else. Imagine asking for a bare bones wheel then when a manufacturer makes one, everyone who asked for it bashes them and then starts asking other manufacturers to do the same thing.

The story has been told. Even if inmotion made a varient similar you and others would find a reason to not buy it. Despite wanting no thrill features, you will get complaints of "why does the InMotion V15 not have it's ride modes.... that's the only reason people get an inmotion, it's DOA".

From my perspective, I never asked for a bare bones wheel like the XMAX so imo I am able to complain. But people who on one breath ask for it and on another breath complain about it are sending mixed signals to manufacturers.

[Robse]

11 minutes ago, PourUC said:

Reviews say otherwise. The things that make it crap are seemingly the things you want. No suspension, less range than sherman, etc.

It's objectively better built than the RS which seemed to be the request. 
 

To make it short; Even the color leds on my ninebot are better tail lights than the (missing)lights on the "crap wheel"

[Robse]

8 minutes ago, PourUC said:

It's objectively better built than the RS.

No one wanted it because it's an RS for more money. Don't pretend otherwise.

1) As much as people pretend they don't like suspension, most people wanted it.

2) People pretended to hate on the RS, but when this was revealed people's main critisism before it was even available was essentially "why get that when you can get an RS instead".

Please don't introduce lies into this. It was nothing to do with the build quality, because it's better built than the RS. The plastic shell RS known for lights going randomly, water ingress and a cracked shell if you drop it the magical number of times.

To be clear I am not saying the RS is bad. But the reason I linked it in the first place is because people here are saying they want a better build quality RS. This is that. People's stubborness is what held this wheel back, nothing else. Imagine asking for a bare bones wheel then when a manufacturer makes one, everyone who asked for it bashes them and then starts asking other manufacturers to do the same thing.

The story has been told. Even if inmotion made a varient similar you and others would find a reason to not buy it. Despite wanting no thrill features, you will get complaints of "why does the InMotion V15 not have it's ride modes.... that's the only reason people get an inmotion, it's DOA".

From my perspective, I never asked for a bare bones wheel like the XMAX so imo I am able to complain. But people who on one breath ask for it and on another breath complain about it are sending mixed signals to manufacturers.

I have a RS19, i like it (much)... but:  Display is ridiculous - trolley handle is close so unusable,  controller is mounted in a stupid place, speakers are excess weight, the shell could be of better quality.  BUT: Performance is great!  Totally stable, even at high speed (and it has the top speed that i lack on the KS 16X)   and not bigger and heavier than it is still easy to throw around, both at high and low speeds. And it is easy to disassemble and service. Good range, acceptable weight, good front and rear lights, easy to get spare parts for.

[meepmeepmayer]

Mods say: Please stay on topic. No more general weight discussion or other stuff not directly related to this V14!

[PourUC]

19 minutes ago, Robse said:

I have a RS19, i like it (much)... but:  Display is ridiculous - trolley handle is close so unusable,  controller is mounted in a stupid place, speakers are excess weight, the shell could be of better quality.  BUT: Performance is great!  Totally stable, even at high speed (and it has the top speed that i lack on the KS 16X)   and not bigger and heavier than it is still easy to throw around, both at high and low speeds. And it is easy to disassemble and service. Good range, acceptable weight, good front and rear lights, easy to get spare parts for.

But the XMAX beats the RS in everything other than weight and trolley handle. I would argue the light situation is a bit weird. Whilst you say it has good lights, the market has generally listed the begode RS as having bad lights. But if you like them, that's all that matters I guess, the XMAX has a better front light but no rear light so swings and roundabouts.

It's better at being repaired in terms of it's design. It's easier to dissassemble. Sure the parts are not as available, but that is simply because the wheel didn't become popular and thus exist for multiple generations.

It is heavier due to the metal frame, which is unfortunate. And the trolley handle is quite literally an afterthought.

I am not saying the XMAX is some amazing wheel. Just that a lot of the hate it has (like here people saying bad build quality) is just undeserved when it's comparitor is the infamously badly built RS. 

EDIT: Was typing this before the post above. Sorry mods.

Edited February 10, 2023 by PourUC

[Finn Bjerke]

Is v14 16inch Suspension wheel a fact or a hoax? How do we know About inmotions plans ?? Is this official? I hope so

I need suspension wheels since I have back  problems and Id love this one for forrest trails with doggy - What id really love is a V11F, just 100V and more speed wouæld be great 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Finn Bjerke

[Roadpower]

9 hours ago, Pablocavern said:

I think it's great that there are EUCs of all kinds for those who want to race or go on trips, but seeing the EUC as the perfect commuter, it seems strange to me that manufacturers are not paying much attention to the most common urban uses.

This is my pet peeve. The manufacturers are largely just catering to enthusiasts. I understand the myriad of reasons why but it frustrates me and frankly it should frustrate the entire EUC/PEV community. We want adoption numbers to be much higher because with much greater use we are going to get more and better "bike" lane infrastructure, we will get legislatures to rethink outright bans like they have in some countries, we will get insurance becoming readily available, etc.

I think there are several reasons why adoption rates are lower than I would like. The big one is battery weight, that has to come down if we are going to get much better adoption numbers by women commuters. A wheel really has to be in a size and weight range that isn't a turn off to women. I'm not talking about women EUC enthusiasts, I'm talking about women who would consider an alternative commute means if it didn't have significant downsides to it.

[Murdomeek]

enthusiasts have an arsenal of wheels and upgrade to the latest and greatest every time a new model comes out.  

Commuters buy one euc every 5 years, doesnt go on forums or fb groups.  They just buy and ride until it dies.  

Which market segment do you think is more profitable? 

[Pablocavern]

15 minutes ago, Murdomeek said:

enthusiasts have an arsenal of wheels and upgrade to the latest and greatest every time a new model comes out.  

Commuters buy one euc every 5 years, doesnt go on forums or fb groups.  They just buy and ride until it dies.  

Which market segment do you think is more profitable? 

Enthusiasts may be spending more money for now, though those folks have also bought medium wheels to begin with (really would have to get numbers). But as EUCs become more popular, it will be like scooters, which are, in general, medium or low power for commuting, mainly because most people are not rich. Although it is also true that offroad will always have a larger audience in the EUCs than in the scooters, I suppose. However, if all four brands are developing 16" models, it will be because it is profitable to do so now. 16" wheels have been doing well and selling so until the idea of doing 16" with suspension came up, no they have seen a really empty market niche.

[conecones]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:02 PM, Roadpower said:

This is my pet peeve. The manufacturers are largely just catering to enthusiasts. I understand the myriad of reasons why but it frustrates me and frankly it should frustrate the entire EUC/PEV community. We want adoption numbers to be much higher because with much greater use we are going to get more and better "bike" lane infrastructure, we will get legislatures to rethink outright bans like they have in some countries, we will get insurance becoming readily available, etc.

I think there are several reasons why adoption rates are lower than I would like. The big one is battery weight, that has to come down if we are going to get much better adoption numbers by women commuters. A wheel really has to be in a size and weight range that isn't a turn off to women. I'm not talking about women EUC enthusiasts, I'm talking about women who would consider an alternative commute means if it didn't have significant downsides to it.

This "push" for smaller wheel and lighter wheels baffles me a little. From the EUC World stats, we already see that small/medium size wheels make up a significant part of the riding population. With multiple wheels of proven track records like V8, V10, V11, 18XL, what exactly is missing in this segment? It looks like people think the manufacturers have somehow abandoned this group when this segment is the most developed, best selling,  and most ridden one of all. Are people actually serious about demanding something like a 30lb/80km range unicorn wheel? As far as I can see, the light weight commuter class of wheels has already matured and manufacturers are simply waiting for new battery & motor tech to be trickled down. These EUC manufacturers do not have the R&D money to create such impossible specifications. 

Contrary to what you may think, the advertising and appealing to the enthusiast crowd is a valid way get the larger community noticed. Amped Electric games put EUC's in the news because a small group of enthusiast riders showcased to the world what is possible on an EUC. This will get kids and adults alike interested in EUC's in general, and the commuting aspects of it will naturally make sense once they ride. These days with how people consume media, exciting content is what drives engagement, not some boring but informative report on how much time an EUC can save on your commute.

[Uras]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:10 AM, Robse said:

I just want a RS19, build quality like KS 16X, no f****** suspension, no speakers, just well build 18" wheel, waterproof, 1500 -2000 watt bat.  Sigh!

you just have to wait. I have a 16x because it has a solid reputation, was $1000 cheaper than Inmotion V12HT, and inmotion V12 (both flavors) were / are problematic, and the 16x appears to be just as torquey. Also, 16x has a bms (albeit passive). The KS16X, from what I've researched, was a shitful wheel when it came out. It took at least a year, maybe even 2, before it was a relatively trouble free wheel. This seems to be the reality for all manufacturers. It would be awesome if the Japanese got in on this market, shimano, yamaha; and the Germans with bosch. They're already in the ballpark with their e mtb motors.

I'm also happy that I don't have suspension. I enjoy learning how to suck things up when hitting bumps etc. I have this mental image of chooch riding on mtb trails - he really works it. It's a more active way of riding - going light over stuff, pushing down into holes and lifting out. If we do eventually get a suspension wheel, we will be better riders with it.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Uras

[Drunkard]

8 hours ago, conecones said:

This "push" for smaller wheel and lighter wheels baffles me a little. From the EUC World stats, we already see that small/medium size wheels make up a significant part of the riding population. With multiple wheels of proven track records like V8, V10, V11, 18XL, what exactly is missing in this segment? It looks like people think the manufacturers have somehow abandoned this group when this segment is the most developed, best selling,  and most ridden one of all. Are people actually serious about demanding something like a 30lb/80km range unicorn wheel? As far as I can see, the light weight commuter class of wheels has already matured and manufacturers are simply waiting for new battery & motor tech to be trickled down. These EUC manufacturers do not have the R&D money to create such impossible specifications. 

 

It's not really a push as a natural interest to introduce new modern models in the lighter class. Yes there is a lot of these older wheels on the market, and people who bought them are happy to ride them but none of them have new features.

Imagine being new to this and wanting to buy a wheel. Trying to choose a safe reliable wheel that is not too heavy. All this new talk about EU law and 25kg limit.. IM wheels <25KG are old, bit on slow side, and seem not to even have passive cell balancing(?). KS wheels don't really have any IP rating but at least 16x seem a bit more fun.. s18 LOOKS nice but all of the comments are saying it's dangerous and underpowered can cut out and still no IP rating.. I'm not even touching BG as all of there new design wheels start at 30KG and are.. well.. Begode.. 

There will be a few good years still until we will get any significant battery improvements. Motors probably will not make a HUGE leap forward any time soon unless more serious company with R&D budget get's in to this space.. There is plenty to improve to the light class and it's time for manufacturers to put in some effort and make the light wheels more modern and apealing to own

 

8 hours ago, conecones said:

Contrary to what you may think, the advertising and appealing to the enthusiast crowd is a valid way get the larger community noticed. Amped Electric games put EUC's in the news because a small group of enthusiast riders showcased to the world what is possible on an EUC. This will get kids and adults alike interested in EUC's in general, and the commuting aspects of it will naturally make sense once they ride. These days with how people consume media, exciting content is what drives engagement, not some boring but informative report on how much time an EUC can save on your commute.

 

I totally agree on this part cool wheels are cool.. S22 or SS have 1000 times the wow factor of my v10f. I'm not against development of higher power cool wheels as I will want to get one at some point in time.