Extremebull Commander Pro (134.4v,3600wh,suspension)

[BKW]

 

[techyiam]

It seems there are many skilled, advanced riders out in the wild, I can see more power and speed are going to sell more wheels to this crowd.

Extreme Bull needs to come out with a 146-volt General, basically a Commander Pro, but with 146-volt, and higher build quality, better weather proofing. 

[BKW]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

It seems there are many skilled, advanced riders out in the wild, I can see more power and speed are going to sell more wheels to this crowd.

Extreme Bull needs to come out with a 146-volt General, basically a Commander Pro, but with 146-volt, and higher build quality, better weather proofing. 

Lol. We haven't even got the Commander Pro yet and you already want another wheel to replace it? Give it some time I see what you mean though, racing riders will always want faster wheels regardless

But, my take from these two videos, especially Dawn's video, it that other riders have rode the CP and they like it, with only good things to be said about the suspension (one even said "better" than the SS suspension). The first rider in Dawn's video at first loved it, then after riding the track he seemed unsure how he felt about it, but sounded like he didn't make his mind up about it in that moment.

I'm glad other riders were able to give feedback on the wheel besides Marty and Roger. I was beginning to think that perhaps they were being optimistically-biased for whatever reason but wasn't sure, so it's nice other people got feedback on it. This is the same wheel we've been getting all the reviews from -- minus the French rider (he also loved the wheel and said similar things to what Marty's CP has got) -- so more reviews from different CPs from different riders would be even more ideal. But at least this CP wheel is seeming pretty solid

The frequent comparisons I've been hearing is that this wheel: 1) rides similar to a Master 2) Nimble 3) good suspension on par with SS

Edited January 26, 2023 by BKW

[GHOSTTE]

3 hours ago, BKW said:

Lol. We haven't even got the Commander Pro yet and you already want another wheel to replace it? Give it some time I see what you mean though, racing riders will always want faster wheels regardless

But, my take from these two videos, especially Dawn's video, it that other riders have rode the CP and they like it, with only good things to be said about the suspension (one even said "better" than the SS suspension). The first rider in Dawn's video at first loved it, then after riding the track he seemed unsure how he felt about it, but sounded like he didn't make his mind up about it in that moment.

I'm glad other riders were able to give feedback on the wheel besides Marty and Roger. I was beginning to think that perhaps they were being optimistically-biased for whatever reason but wasn't sure, so it's nice other people got feedback on it. This is the same wheel we've been getting all the reviews from -- minus the French rider (he also loved the wheel and said similar things to what Marty's CP has got) -- so more reviews from different CPs from different riders would be even more ideal. But at least this CP wheel is seeming pretty solid

The frequent comparisons I've been hearing is that this wheel: 1) rides similar to a Master 2) Nimble 3) good suspension on par with SS

All I need to know is if it supports fast charging with the first batch GX16-5 ports and I'm 100% in

[Freeforester]

8 hours ago, BKW said:

3) good suspension on par with SS

That was not my impression from either the gent who was trying out the CP at the beginning of the video, admittedly an SS owner, but nonetheless thereby qualified to compare, nor indeed Roger, whom I thought also said early in conversation with aforementioned SS owner that he too felt that the SS suspension was better overall.
 

This being said, the suspension is not ‘bad’, a there sure is plenty of zip in the wheel, which will be an exciting and enticing prospect for many considering it.

[techyiam]

7 hours ago, BKW said:

We haven't even got the Commander Pro yet and you already want another wheel to replace it? Give it some time I see what you mean though, racing riders will always want faster wheels regardless

All the announced new wheels have already been shipped or are in transit. The EX30 should be the last of them.

We are now waiting for announcements of new wheels for 2023. Leaper  Kim should be announcing an intermediate size wheel. Maybe even one or two smaller wheels from Inmotion. 

And it appears, at least in the US, there is market for big fast, suspension wheels. And this is understandable, since many videos show riders riding on roads, or even in busy car traffic, ie. New York and San Francisco. 

In addition, the average group rides speed seemed to be climbing too, in light of suspension, pushed up headroom, and ever evolving rider skills, and experience. 

And lastly, the racers. But, I suspect by themselves, the market would be too small. But if you put all of them together, you have a sizable market. 

[GHOSTTE]

28 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

That was not my impression from either the gent who was trying out the CP at the beginning of the video, admittedly an SS owner, but nonetheless thereby qualified to compare, nor indeed Roger, whom I thought also said early in conversation with aforementioned SS owner that he too felt that the SS suspension was better overall.
 

This being said, the suspension is not ‘bad’, a there sure is plenty of zip in the wheel, which will be an exciting and enticing prospect for many considering it.

Suspension is entirely subjective and also subject to how it's been set, for example to be stiff or soft. People giving their thoughts on the suspension means little when there is so much variance in how the suspension is tuned

[TheNotoriousEUC]

On 1/25/2023 at 12:58 AM, Rawnei said:

Not to deter you from your choice, it's an interesting wheel, but riders are just now getting their hands on it and there's already batch 1 issues so I suggest you wait some more.

Also the manufacturer app should really not add any weight to your choice, use Darknessbot or EUC World (coming to iOS) instead.

Yes. As I said, I am waiting to hear more reviews, more miles on it over time. I am fine waiting a bit for a batch 2 or 3.

My issue with the Sherman S and Android only issue is firmware upgrades. It just seems very short sighted. At this point, I feel all manufacturers should have an app for both platforms.

[BKW]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

All the announced new wheels have already been shipped or are in transit. The EX30 should be the last of them.

We are now waiting for announcements of new wheels for 2023. Leaper  Kim should be announcing an intermediate size wheel. Maybe even one or two smaller wheels from Inmotion. 

And it appears, at least in the US, there is market for big fast, suspension wheels. And this is understandable, since many videos show riders riding on roads, or even in busy car traffic, ie. New York and San Francisco. 

In addition, the average group rides speed seemed to be climbing too, in light of suspension, pushed up headroom, and ever evolving rider skills, and experience. 

And lastly, the racers. But, I suspect by themselves, the market would be too small. But if you put all of them together, you have a sizable market. 

If all is well, and I do purchase the CP, this will be my last wheel for some time. I won't buy any more wheels unless I sell one for another. The idea of all the things the CP will have that I've never had is just too compelling for me. I like the idea of LK coming out with a smaller wheel mostly, but won't buy it unless I sell another

[Freeforester]

2 hours ago, oktothorpe said:

Suspension is entirely subjective and also subject to how it's been set, for example to be stiff or soft. People giving their thoughts on the suspension means little when there is so much variance in how the suspension is tuned

This may or may not be correct, but is not the point I was making, which was that the two riders stated in the video that the Sherman S suspension, in their (agreed subjectively arrived at) opinion and based upon their experience riding it was/is better than that of the CP. I’m not arguing the toss either way, but merely stating the facts as I heard and saw them as far as the voiced opinions were given early on in the video, which were at variance with BKW’s remark, which I quoted.

More generally still, I think it is fair to say that the ‘technical design’ aspects of the suspension mechanism will heavily influence the opinions of most beyond mere subjectivity and/or even set-up, ie the stock set-up of both KS S22 and the Begode Master may be assumed to be of inferior or at least underwhelming  quality, otherwise none of the numerous modifications we as a community are trying would be felt necessary or even desirable.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, BKW said:

If all is well, and I do purchase the CP, this will be my last wheel for some time. I won't buy any more wheels unless I sell one for another. The idea of all the things the CP will have that I've never had is just too compelling for me. I like the idea of LK coming out with a smaller wheel mostly, but won't buy it unless I sell another

Now you mentioned it, I do see in your profile that you have a nice stable of non-suspension wheels to cover the gamit.

Since you are in New York, and you are already riding a Sherman Max, there is no reason to get a newly released wheel unless you want suspension, and perhaps 134-volt performance as well, if the Begode wheels have decent enough quality, and maybe better weather proofing. The Commander Pro is looking good so far.

There isn't enough data to rule out the EX30 at this point, but I think for most riders, he or she will buy one or the other, but not both. 

In any case, once you have bought one of these, there wouldn't be a reason for you to upgrade, unless you want more range.

So what the manufacturers to do to feed the addiction, and compel us to buy.

I think you have a point. After you have bought your Commander Pro, what more is there to compel you to upgrade. These latest wheels are really capable already.

Well, for Begode, if they just improve quality, and weather proofing alone, as the Hero has attested, that is a big gamble. Based on history, it always has been torque, speed, and range. Perhaps there is another novel way to do suspension, but I suspect for Begode, the most straight forward way would be to upgrade the Commander  Pro to 146-volt, since it already has been developed for their K6 scooter. And should Begode improve their build quality, refinement and weather proofing with this, they may even steal market share. 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by techyiam

[BKW]

22 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

This may or may not be correct, but is not the point I was making, which was that the two riders stated in the video that the Sherman S suspension, in their (agreed subjectively arrived at) opinion and based upon their experience riding it was/is better than that of the CP. I’m not arguing the toss either way, but merely stating the facts as I heard and saw them as far as the voiced opinions were given early on in the video, which were at variance with BKW’s remark, which I quoted.

I wasn't going to respond at first because I realize it's kind of tit-for-tat here and kind of "he-says-she-says" at this point, and I didn't want to perpetuate that any further, BUT...lol... You mentioned two riders who say the SS has better suspension, and i'm not sure what video you're referring to, but the only one I can think of may have been the one were the guy who owns the SS for Roger's Mt Baldy ride video says the SS has better suspension, but that's the only one I can think of that said that. All the others say it's on par from what I remember. If you look at Dawn's video above, the last rider says the CP suspension is better than the SS

I won't bring this up any more for a while because I know people are probably getting sick of the back and forth and "suspension is/is not better than SS". I'll leave my opinions on the suspension comparisons out for a while lol

[BKW]

13 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Now you mentioned it, I do see in your profile that you have a nice stable of non-suspension wheels to cover the gamit.

Since you are in New York, and you are already riding a Sherman Max, there is no reason to get a newly released wheel unless you want suspension, and perhaps 134-volt performance as well, if the Begode wheels have decent enough quality, and maybe better weather proofing. The Commander Pro is looking good so far.

There isn't enough data to rule out the EX30 at this point, but I think for most riders, he or she will buy one or the other, but not both. 

Once you have bought one of these, there wouldn't be a reason for you to upgrade, unless you want more range.

So what the manufacturers to do to feed the addiction, and compel us to buy.

I think you have a point. After you have bought your Commander Pro, what more is there to compel you to upgrade. These latest wheels are really capable already.

Well, for Begode, if they just improve quality, and weather proofing alone, as the Hero has attested, that is a big gamble. Based on history, it always has been torque, speed, and range. Perhaps there is another novel way to do suspension, but I suspect for Begode, the most straight forward way would be to upgrade the Commander  Pro to 146-volt, since it already has been developed for their K6 scooter. And should Begode improve their build quality, refinement and weather proofing with this, they may even steal market share. 

 

Exactly. I never had 134 volt, suspension, or begode, and I need a long-range/durable/all-around backup wheel for my work that I do, so there is a black hole sucking my attention, and this black hole is the Commander Pro lol. After that, I don't need or want any other wheels, and I don't think new wheels, even with better voltage, longer battery, etc., would entice me enough unless I am to sell an old wheel for it.

And once again, I agree with you when you mention waterproofing. The only thing that enticing me about the V13 is the waterproofing, but I don't know much about how that wheel is waterproofed... I think they are talking about the motor and battery? Considering I literally do food delivery on my EUCs, I really do need a wheel that is more weather-proof. That is the only thing I don't have, but still wouldn't be that enticed after I buy the CP, and I think I'd try water-proofing myself, even if it is not the best method.

[Freeforester]

13 minutes ago, BKW said:

I wasn't going to respond at first because I realize it's kind of tit-for-tat here and kind of "he-says-she-says" at this point, and I didn't want to perpetuate that any further, BUT...lol... You mentioned two riders who say the SS has better suspension, and i'm not sure what video you're referring to, but the only one I can think of may have been the one were the guy who owns the SS for Roger's Mt Baldy ride video says the SS has better suspension, but that's the only one I can think of that said that. All the others say it's on par from what I remember. If you look at Dawn's video above, the last rider says the CP suspension is better than the SS

I won't bring this up any more for a while because I know people are probably getting sick of the back and forth and "suspension is/is not better than SS". I'll leave my opinions on the suspension comparisons out for a while lol

Yes, I was indeed referring to the mount Baldy ride with Marty and co video, apologies if confusion arose about which video I was referring to, and the more so if you were referring to a different one, I see now how the confusion has arisen.

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, BKW said:

and I need a long-range/durable/all-around backup wheel for my work that I do, so there is a black hole sucking my attention, and this black hole is the Commander Pro lol.

I see. You needed a backup for work.

For weather proofing, I would suspect the V13 would have the best weather proofing among the big fast wheels. Second would probably go to Sherman-S, and then the Commander Pro. 

If you can wrench your own wheel, then it doesn't really matter which of these you get. But if you don't, based on historical data, my choice would be between the V13 and the Sherman-S, unless you deliberately want to go through the Begode experience.

If you are not in a rush, since you are New York, wouldn't there be opportunities for you to try out these wheels first, and see them in person.

[BKW]

38 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I see. You needed a backup for work.

For weather proofing, I would suspect the V13 would have the best weather proofing among the big fast wheels. Second would probably go to Sherman-S, and then the Commander Pro. 

If you can wrench your own wheel, then it doesn't really matter which of these you get. But if you don't, based on historical data, my choice would be between the V13 and the Sherman-S, unless you deliberately want to go through the Begode experience.

If you are not in a rush, since you are New York, wouldn't there be opportunities for you to try out these wheels first, and see them in person.

I agree that the V13, then the Sherman-S as far as expected waterproofing goes. I know begode should probably be the last choice for this considering their history. However, I am not desperate for a waterproof wheel as I also have a bike I can use in really bad conditions. At this point, I'd rather go with the wheel I'm most excited about (EBCP) and try to weatherproof it myself (not ideal), or do as I have done and use other modes of transport. I think if I got either the V13 or Sherman-S just for supposed better waterproofing I would be disappointed in my choice because I really wanted the CP. Most of the time it doesn't rain here so a CP is fine here for either a main wheel or a backup wheel (likely main wheel with the SherMax as a backup).

I could test out demo wheels but I don't think it's necessary. I find the opinions of youtube reviewers, and the insight from the opinion on the forums, to be accurate. I can go into buying a wheel that I've researched from these sources confidently feeling that the information is accurate.

Edited January 26, 2023 by BKW

[techyiam]

40 minutes ago, BKW said:

I could test out demo wheels but I don't think it's necessary. I find the opinions of youtube reviewers, and the insight from the opinion on the forums, to be accurate. I can go into buying a wheel that I've researched from these sources confidently feeling that the information is accurate.

I understand. It's like the S22 for @Tawpie. The heart wants what the heart wants. Nothing wrong. I don't really need a big fast wheel, but that is how it is.

Things I was surprised in person after watching or reading them on the Internet. 

In person:

(1) the S22 looked better than photos or in videos.

(2) the suspension action of the V13 was so smooth and refined. The V11 was nothing like that. I thought it was similar to the Sherman-S. It's really smooth and refined, at least on the demo I was on.

(3) both the Sherman-S and V13 exude premium build quality, refinement, and high end feel. The V13 especially. Neither the Hero nor the Abrams can compare.

(4) the V13 has very high rotational inertia. 

(5) the Master Pro was much easier to balance at really low speeds than my own wheels.

(6) the Sherman-S, V13, and Master Pro have very different feel. It's not good of bad. It depends on personal preference and background. 

[eevees]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:41 AM, Cobaltsaber said:

the problem with the original commander wasnt any quality issue necessarily. It didnt have cutout issues or any major flaws. It just came out at the wrong time at the wrong price. It costed almost $1000 more than the sherman and it had almost no hype while the sherman already stole the show. Given the prices and landscape now, if I didnt have a next gen wheel coming then I would absolutely get the commander. It is powerful, has the range, and didnt pedal dip as hard as the sherman/shermax. Truely an underrated wheel imo

 Just a shame that eevees refuses to stock any future extremebull products. I get they are trying to slim down their offerings to provide better service. Also they dont want to take the risk again, but their decision is pretty biased. Business is business, but less options for the community is overall a con

 

 

I just want to clarify that we aren't refusing to stock any future ExtremeBull products. We're simply not bringing in the Commander Pro for now (for various reasons one of them being that it's not a finished product in our eyes). If they make some necessary fixes and they become extremely popular, we will bring them in but we are tired of carrying unfinished products that we can't sell. That said, we'll still be reviewing it and doing a tear-down where we will show you our concerns. 

 

On 1/23/2023 at 12:45 AM, BKW said:

I don't know if it was this thread or another, but someone mentioned how eevee's won't be stocking anymore of the Commander series due to "quality", and someone responded that it isn't really a quality concern for eevee's as much as it is the lack of sales for the original commander (see picture). If you go to eevee's website you will see the original commander as one of their worst-selling wheels, even though on paper the stats are around the same as the SherMax, which is one of their highest sellers; even when the original Commander is now selling at 1300 dollars less than the SherMax!

I think now if you want to buy an advanced wheel at a great price, perhaps you should consider the original commander from eevees?

Regardless, I think this time around the Commander Pro will be a hot seller unlike the original Commander.

Also, I respect eevee's for being so transparent. They said they won't be selling due to "quality", but clearly state they also won't be selling it because it simply making them lose money.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5795615807203001/

 

 

I just want to clarify that we are losing money on our current stock of Commanders because we are choosing to clear them out due to them not selling. But yes, we are going to try and not support unfinished products. Our new website that we're currently building will also have a separate section for Begode wheels. They will be considered for experts or DIY users only because of how many repairs they typically require compared to other products as well as the parts that are constantly changing from their V1, V2, and V3 wheel. We want to warn people that parts availability might be tough for Begode products. I appreciate that you can appreciate our transparency. Sometimes we might be too transparent but we want to build trust within the community even if it makes a few people upset. 

 

In the end, we want to support manufacturers who are pushing QC and build quality. It's our mission to make these things more mainstream and it's not going to happen with subpar products. 

 

[Paul A]

The distributor is burdened with all the costs of time, labour, aggravation etc, of repairs, inventory/sourcing correct parts, liability, customer service.......the list goes on.

 

Because a manufacturer makes poor quality wheels.  

History and reputation that does not change.

[GHOSTTE]

12 minutes ago, Paul A said:

The distributor is burdened with all the costs of time, labour, aggravation etc, of repairs, inventory/sourcing correct parts, liability, customer service.......the list goes on.

 

Because a manufacturer makes poor quality wheels.  

History and reputation that does not change.

I'm more willing to recommend a distributor if they are willing to take that risk and at the same time work to resolve issues for their customers through the manufacturer, to me that means more and builds a better reputation like Alien Rides trying to figure out what's going on with the Master fires here and sending out replacement parts.

I also understand @eevees's position and respect it, I know eWheels has also asked Begode/EB to make changes to the Commander Pro with some things they are wary about too

Edited January 27, 2023 by oktothorpe

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, oktothorpe said:

I know eWheels has also asked Begode/EB to make changes to the Commander Pro with some things they are wary about too

If you could, what things is Jason wary about on the Commander Pro that need change? 

[GHOSTTE]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

If you could, what things is Jason wary about on the Commander Pro that need change? 

An email with @Jason McNeil @ eWheels

Quote

There's a list of half-a-dozen improvements that we're trying to have pushed through, like a better fender/mud-guard, proper charge-port connectors, handle modification, etc.

 

About 20x of these machines are currently underway now, if getting one of these prerelease Wheels, we'll send out the upgrade package on arrival

What I gather from this email is Jason states if there are any things that are changed in the future eWheels will assist with the necessary upgrades for those getting the early batches

Edit: I'm still waiting to hear back on more information with the GX16-5 ports in the first batch, Jason hasn't heard anything because it's Chinese New Year right now and China essentially shuts down

Edited January 27, 2023 by oktothorpe

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, oktothorpe said:

An email with @Jason McNeil @ eWheels

Thank you.

Actually, although they are not major things, it does make the wheel more complete. I am glad the distributors are making these requests. 

[GHOSTTE]

Just now, techyiam said:

Thank you.

Actually, although they are not major things, it does make the wheel more complete. I am glad the distributors are making these requests. 

We already know the later batches will be getting the unofficial "standard" GX20-4 ports for 134v, the first batches are using the GX16-5 because the wheel was originally designed as a 100v. I'm not sure what will happen with that or if there will be an "upgrade" for the pre-release models. To me it doesn't really matter unless the GX16-5 isn't able to fast charge or cannot handle the same amperage as the GX20-4 -- this comes down to the specifications of the design of the ports though because it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, oktothorpe said:

We already know the later batches will be getting the unofficial "standard" GX20-4 ports for 134v, the first batches are using the GX16-5 because the wheel was originally designed as a 100v. I'm not sure what will happen with that or if there will be an "upgrade" for the pre-release models. To me it doesn't really matter unless the GX16-5 isn't able to fast charge or cannot handle the same amperage as the GX20-4 -- this comes down to the specifications of the design of the ports though because it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer

I was thinking more along the fender and mud flap. I already like the trolley handle. It looked sturdy and not too high. And I am fine with the charging adaptor pigtail.