Mten4 announced!

[BKW]

9 hours ago, Tawpie said:

huh. I guess I'm not terribly surprised.

I know what you mean, but in a couple videos he mentioned how he did not think he'd be liking it or riding it much, but was shocked at how much he loved riding it. Call me a marketing sucker, but I believe him.

(time stamped at 2:32):

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by BKW

[alexbrunoeuc]

He (Chooch Tech) makes me think that these thin side panels may be durable enough and that the bent one from Russia was bad luck. 

Still trying to keep myself together and wait to see if there will be any additional upgrades to it with the newer batch. 

• fixed motor cable clip
• reinforced chassis 
• different spikes on the pedals (seen a V3 T4 using mten4 pedals with new spikes) 

[joeboots]

Re: NYC riding, I ride mostly in the bike lanes where available, but also feel totally comfortable on it on most roads. I've worked my way up to feeling stable at up to about 18/19 mph, which is as fast as most street traffic anyway. Just gotta be aggressive and take the lane when there's not enough space for a car to safely overtake. Some will anyways, then you just glide calmly past them at the next light. I've been biking in the city for 20 years though so I'm already more comfortable than most probably in traffic.

It's also small enough and nimble enough that I feel totally comfortable riding on most sidewalks as long as there aren't many pedestrians around.

I bought it mostly as a replacement for my xiomi365 scooter for around-the-neighborhood errands and such, but it's so much fun that I've been using it to commute into Manhattan from Queens.

 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, alexbrunoeuc said:

He (Chooch Tech) makes me think that these thin side panels may be durable enough and that the bent one from Russia was bad luck. 

Or have they strengthened the panels since the test batch does anyone know ? Chooch is quite a light rider, and quite light on his feet and athletic on his wheels, but if they haven't beefed up the rigidity of those side panels I'd still be worrying about sideways twist and torque forces for heavier riders.

[novazeus]

i moved my deposit from the mten4 to the inmotion challenger v13 because of these two videos. i'm no electronics engineers but i have built computers and rc helis and i am a state certified residential contractor, mostly all high end custom homes, so i know shoddy workmanship when i see it. ur opinions might be different. 

esp the second one where wrongway is reading from the mten4 manual at 2:15

i already burned down one house in 2021. please Lord, no more fires.

 

 

[UPONIT]

5 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Or have they strengthened the panels since the test batch does anyone know ? Chooch is quite a light rider, and quite light on his feet and athletic on his wheels, but if they haven't beefed up the rigidity of those side panels I'd still be worrying about sideways twist and torque forces for heavier riders.

That bent frame picture has been given too much attention maybe? It can't be a common occurrence, or there would be more cases, That was probably the result of a freak accident or extremely hard use.

Everything has a breaking point if you try hard enough. It isn't made of adamantium.

.02

[BKW]

If I had burnt down a house before I most definitely would also have the same concern with these wheels, so I don't blame you @novazeus. This will be my first begode wheel. I live in a apartment complex with lots of people. I should buy myself a fire blanket or something to keep these wheels, especially the more I get it would be the smart thing to do

Edited January 2, 2023 by BKW

[UPONIT]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

i moved my deposit from the mten4 to the inmotion challenger v13 because of these two videos. i'm no electronics engineers but i have built computers and rc helis and i am a state certified residential contractor, mostly all high end custom homes, so i know shoddy workmanship when i see it. ur opinions might be different. 

esp the second one where wrongway is reading from the mten4 manual at 2:15

i already burned down one house in 2021. please Lord, no more fires.

I respect your opinion about workmanship. I'm sorry to hear about your house. Fires are more devastating than people can imagine.

I wouldn't call it shoddy workmanship. It's meant to be a Jeep, not an Audi, IMO.

People who have a problem with a product are way more likely to report it than people who love a product. How many Mten4s are out there? Thousands? And how many reported fires or other incidents have there been? One bent frame photo and the potential loose connector issue. Even Joeboots' experience seems favorable: left out in the rain and the motherboard WASN'T damaged?

Not trying to change your opinion, just putting it out there...

Edited January 2, 2023 by UPONIT

[Paul A]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

fires

 

Birthday Cruise and EUC News from Stockholm - MSP HT Fires

isthereanyfood

3.09K subscribers

Nov 8, 2021

 

 

 

[novazeus]

it's begode's own admission of shoddy workmanship.

"don't store or charge this wheel in ur house".

i'm not rewarding a company that has that little faith in their product. puts the liability on me, if a fire from their product burns down a house or an apt complex.

and i'm not talking about mechanics, more their wiring. 

i'm not crazy about having any of these wheels inside with me, but i know king song and inmotion are trying.

plus, the mten4 is for fun. i'm into car replacement. it's either this, or i'm walking. 

my new years resolution is to get as good as i can practicing daily on my road. like i did when i quit 4 years ago. not that i got any good. plus, i'll never own another non-suspension wheel. the mten4 with chooch riding it, deflating the tire to 35 psi, gives him some pretty good suspension. i was gonna get the street tire, and if i hit this patch of leaves, the mten4 would have squirted out. i'll have three "hyper" wheels,(anything over 30mph is hyper to me) so i won't have the time to play with it anyway. it looks like great fun but i haven't bought a gotway/begode yet, and i probably never will. makes life easier just choosing between kingsong and inmotion. 

my jeep is better built than the mten4. i'm not an electrician, but anybody could tell the difference between my electrician's panel wiring, and another. sloppy wiring still works, just hard to troubleshoot. 

and i'm not trying to change anyone's opinion either. i probably should get a fire extinguisher, but haha, after witnessing what 3 unicycles side by side on fire, it's like a blow torch. u couldn't get close enough. maybe throw it at it. all u can do is get away from it.

i don't abuse my jeep, my tractor or my backhoe loader, because ain't nobody around here 'cept me to fix it. i don't need anymore shit to work on. 

so i'm real careful with my wheels. less abuse, less chance of something breaking. course the s22 is gonna be the ranch wheel and it will get challenge. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by novazeus
typo

[joeboots]

An update: Before cancelling my motherboard order, I thought I'd check my theory that the board was still good by reattaching everything but the charging port. (As a reminder, the day after the rain damage the wheel seemed to work fine, even after the smoking charging port.) Unfortunately either there was latent damage to the board, or I caused more when I was removing and reinstalling it, because after I reassembled the wheel it appears to be kaput. It powers on but the display doesn't light, and the unit beeps constantly in what must be an error code. (Long short repeated)

After spending some time with the insides of this machine, I'm beginning to agree with the build quality concerns. I was surprised to realize that the battery is just held in place by the motherboard. Not only is there room for the battery to jostle around in there a bit, but it also seems to put a lot of stress on the back of the board. Check out the wear pattern on the battery protection, along with the corresponding bits on the back of the board. That can't be good!

Oh also the board made a big spark when I set it down on my steel top work bench, I'm guessing from causing a short in one of the capacitors? Lol probably should set down something non-metallic on that before working on it.

The inside of the box was noticably dirty, and the face of the motherboard had plenty of dust on it. When my new board arrives, I'm planning to add some rubber around the battery to prevent any jostling, and potting the back of the motherboard with some kind of silicone to protect it and keep the battery in place. Then I'll do my best to create a continuous gasket around the top opening of the box, and pot the backside of the charging port and power button (which, as shipped, are just entirely exposed and unprotected). Product recommendations for all this sealing and potting would be welcomed! I don't have any experience with this stuff.

I'm really hoping all that's enough to compensate for the mten4's issues, as I've come to love riding it and I don't really have any interest in a larger wheel. The mten4 is the first and only euc I've ever liked the looks of, and anything bigger just wouldn't be very practical for the way I use it. Being able to backpack it or pop it into a shop/restaurant/office is crucial, but I gotta be able to have confidence that it won't suddenly turn into an inextinguishable fireball.

(When I first got mine, I thought the user manual's exhortations not to ride it on streets, at night, in the rain etc we're standard euc disclaimers. I guess that's not the case?)

 

[Tawpie]

16 minutes ago, joeboots said:

Oh also the board made a big spark when I set it down on my steel top work bench

To avoid this in the future, after disconnecting the battery be sure to turn the wheel on a couple three times. That will discharge the caps.

It’s more than a bit worrying to see that wear in the battery separator (?). That looks like FR4 Fiberglas (bare circuit board material) and that stuff is pretty durable. Not only is the battery at risk from the motherboard leads, but you’re whacking the motherboard with a 6 lb brick. I can’t think of any scenario where that would be a good idea.

[Cerbera]

Lordy, smoke out of the charge ports and big sparks both there and from the main board when contacted with a metal surface.

I think there is a reasonable chance that the charge board, the main board (or components on it) AND the charger may ALL have taken damage because of these things.

Not sure I would trust any of these components again until rigorously checked or replaced.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Cerbera

[joeboots]

Yeah, I'm replacing the charge port and the main board.

[alexbrunoeuc]

Isn't that stuff under the yellow foil one of the plastic plates which are glued around the battery? At least it looks like that in the russian tear down video... 

Motherboard rubbing on plastic plate sound better than on battery... IMO

---

Talking bout the manual... I think they just want to make sure no one can sue them. 

[BKW]

8 minutes ago, alexbrunoeuc said:

Talking bout the manual... I think they just want to make sure no one can sue them. 

I think you're right, but Begode has a bad history as others have pointed out, so might as well take the manual "don't charge indoors" seriously.

I think the ultimate test is to see how many of these wheels actually do have fire issues, if any. Unfortunately, being a new wheel, buying it now from a company like Begode is always a chance and you're probably best to charge it outside for a while until its proven itself a little bit, or just keep doing it indefinitely. In my case, I don't have a place outside to charge it where I live so I should buy something to keep it inside safely. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by BKW

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, BKW said:

I think you're right, but Begode has a bad history as others have pointed out, so might as well take the manual "don't charge indoors" seriously.

In the case of your specific wheel @joeboots, after all that servicing and parts problems, charging outside the first couple of times makes some sense, basically to make sure it can. Once that is proved however, I would move it indoors, and keep and charge it there where it is a) not susceptible to damp and weather and b) where you can keep an eye (or a smoke alarm) on it. That wheel is, after all, very easy to pick up and carry outside if it starts going off on you.

People make a lot out of Begode's fire history, but when we take into account the relative amount of fires to the amount of Begodes in the userbase it's not as bad a ratio as it seems, and those problems were mainly confined to couple of models and battery packs a few years back - it would certainly be wrong to assume that ALL Gotway / Begode wheels since are fires just waiting to happen (moreso than any of them are), especially if they are looked after, not thrown in rivers, not ridden to their maximums everyday, not accelerated to death, and not regularly charged at 5 times the rate their batteries appreciate.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Cerbera

[UPONIT]

Meanwhile...

Marty has posted a video about Roger's 100V, 1800Wh Mten4-on-steroids mod.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by UPONIT
link correction, typo, eff ups, etc.

[BKW]

^^ I saw that, but it freaks me out. Wouldn't want to take a chance messing with that stuff. But that is cool

[alexbrunoeuc]

5 hours ago, BKW said:

I think you're right, but Begode has a bad history as others have pointed out, so might as well take the manual "don't charge indoors" seriously.

I think the ultimate test is to see how many of these wheels actually do have fire issues, if any. Unfortunately, being a new wheel, buying it now from a company like Begode is always a chance and you're probably best to charge it outside for a while until its proven itself a little bit, or just keep doing it indefinitely. In my case, I don't have a place outside to charge it where I live so I should buy something to keep it inside safely. 

I need to admit that I charge my wheel under a fire detector next to a fire blanket and the shortest way to get it out. Just in case😅

Also just charge when I'm home. 

[UPONIT]

8 hours ago, joeboots said:

I caused more when I was removing and reinstalling it,

Oh also the board made a big spark when I set it down on my steel top work bench, I'm guessing from causing a short in one of the capacitors? Lol probably should set down something non-metallic on that before working on it.

The inside of the box was noticably dirty, and the face of the motherboard had plenty of dust on it.

I'm really hoping all that's enough to compensate for the mten4's issues, as I've come to love riding it

(When I first got mine, I thought the user manual's exhortations not to ride it on streets, at night, in the rain etc we're standard euc disclaimers. I guess that's not the case?)

 

Seems very possible the rain, the sparking, the repeated smoking, the removing and reinstalling might have caused the wear and tear on this copy of the Mten4? Would it be fair to blame Begode if this unit were to catch fire?

All that dirt is EXACTLY what happens if rain runs through a compartment for hours. Like I mentioned earlier: every raindrop requires a "nucleus" of dust to form. And a decent percentage of atmospheric dust is electrically conductive. Multiply by a million drops, and you get a short circuit on the board. Glad you're gonna replace it.

Again, doesn't seem accurate in this case to say "the Mten4's issues."

That's what standard disclaimers ARE. They are there to warn about elevated risk scenarios so no one can sue if they hurt themselves doing things they were told not to do.

All of us are prone to not taking warnings seriously, because most times, there are no consequences. I can't tell you how many fires I saw caused by smart, functional, competent adults leaving their house with candles, incense or stove burners lit.  And every single time there was a complete disconnect between personal cause and effect. I just left for a couple minutes.

I say all that to say this: I could be totally wrong, but you might be underthinking the potential danger of some of the things you are doing? Focusing on Begode QC problems could be creating a blind spot.

Hopefully, everything will be fine and you can just say wtf was he on (and on, and on) about? But the issue of fires hits close to home and I can't help but give a sh*t. But I'll shut up now.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

 

[joeboots]

8 hours ago, alexbrunoeuc said:

Isn't that stuff under the yellow foil one of the plastic plates which are glued around the battery? At least it looks like that in the russian tear down video... 

 

Yes. I don't think it's a problem for the battery, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't a problem for the motherboard. There should be something insulating the board from damage, and there's room in the assembly there for an insulative silicone barrier. At least that's my layperson's assessment.

[Paul A]

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

And a decent percentage of atmospheric dust is electrically conductive

?

Alluding to reason for lightning during thunderstorms?

 

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Multiply by a million drops, and you get a short circuit on the board

A million drops of water might be a large volume. 

Depositing of atmospheric dust by water, might be a lesser concern, than waterproofing.

 

Purified water, free of any atmospheric dust, poured onto the electronics, might be damaging.

[UPONIT]

53 minutes ago, Paul A said:

?

Alluding to reason for lightning during thunderstorms?

 

A million drops of water might be a large volume. 

Depositing of atmospheric dust by water, might be a lesser concern, than waterproofing.

 

Purified water, free of any atmospheric dust, poured onto the electronics, might be damaging.

Look up both facts.

Amount of water that falls in a square foot during a heavy rainstorm. Drops are small. Hours left in the rain. A million might be a slight exaggeration...

Metal dust, carbon particulates, micrometeorites aren't rare, conductive elements in industrial pollution... look it up.

And you are right. Waterproofing is very important (especially if you leave it out in the rain). Although I would worry about cooling if the compartment were made air tight. Which is what seems to be the next step in the plan.

We aren't engineers. When we start making unapproved, untested changes to these machines, we are taking risks. We shouldn't think we are necessarily smarter than the people who designed them. And hopefully we've stopped to think if we know what we're doing. Usually nothing terrible happens. But if it does: it ain't Begode's fault.

I just wanted to put my two cents in, as respectfully as possible, that it seems Joeboots might not be taking the electrical mistakes he's making seriously enough. Hopefully I'm wrong and being over-cautious. I think you are the only one listening anyway... thanks for the discussion.

[Eucner]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Purified water, free of any atmospheric dust, poured onto the electronics, might be damaging.

Only if there is also some contamination. Pure water was very low electrical conductivity. The conductivity is actually one common way to measure water pureness.