Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

That's interesting; that would seem to imply they are going a different route for this launch and they ARE sending evaluation units to the major retailers (and possibly actual reviewers) but have an embargo on releasing info/videos.

So probably once some as-yet-unspecified date comes we will see a flood of info on this wheel

That could be real possibility since they got burnt once with the Abrams. It makes more sense to start production after the wheel have been tested at least by the dealers/distributors, and have received feedback from them. 

 

[rebeuc]

31 minutes ago, techyiam said:

45 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

That's interesting; that would seem to imply they are going a different route for this launch and they ARE sending evaluation units to the major retailers (and possibly actual reviewers) but have an embargo on releasing info/videos.

So probably once some as-yet-unspecified date comes we will see a flood of info on this wheel

That could be real possibility since they got burnt once with the Abrams. It makes more sense to start production after the wheel have been tested at least by the dealers/distributors, and have received feedback from them. 

If so, I wouldn't be surprised if that embargo date ends up being Oct 31 or Nov 1. With the Sherman S due in November according to retailers, it wouldn't make much sense to delay longer than this as not having review units out will definitely hurt their sales.

Also, IIRC Oct 31 is the end date for the v13 early bird pricing based on that one retailer's leak, so also would seem to fit in this sense as well (maybe Inmotion is doing something similar with an embargo on wheel reviews; the usual suspects have been conspicuously quiet about both of these wheels Sherman S and v13)

[DragonFZ]

10 hours ago, techyiam said:

OK, the Abrams had the first batch issues, but look at the V12, S22, and T4. Abrams wasn't worse, and the build quality was good. It may be a big and heavy wheel before it's time though.

I feel what killed the Abrams was the lack of support and solving the issue from the manufacturer. There's only so much a reseller can do.  With the T4, have to wait and see what Begode is going to do with the motor. It has to be a new motor from another motor manufacturer (what Kingsong doing with S22) and they have to eat the replacement cost.

[fbhb]

There does at least seem to be some finished examples at Leaperkim of the Sherman-S, getting prepped and made ready for shipping currently to Hmmmmm????

Video below posted by Wheel Tech Store seller:

Facebook

Edited October 19, 2022 by fbhb

[Planemo]

12 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Someone mentioned two values for the spring rates, probably earlier in this thread. They were surprisingly small numbers tough, something like 57 and 62. But since they are not behind a link mechanism, it makes sense that together they are about a third of what's on the S22. So about a sixth per spring.

Good spot!

That possibly makes sense that they may be 57lb and 62lb. Single coils for MTB forks average between 30lb and 60lb so given an MTB shares the total weight between front and rear, around 60lb+ may be about right for EUC use. Also, MTB springs usually step in 5lb increments so that may be why Veteran went for the same, but really we may need to be doubling the steps for EUC use (10lb) given we are loading the single spring only and don't have any 'rear' suspension to help.

Hopefully once we get full dimensions of the Sherman spring, I may look into seeing if I can supply various poundage springs to enable riders to get their wheels just right. For sure, just having a 57 and 62 available isn't going to work for a lot of riders. I think we'd need a spread of say 50lb to 110lb in at least 10lb increments, 5lb even better.

Once we get a bit of feedback on how the stock Sherman springs work with a few different rider weights we'll know whereabouts we are going.

[mrelwood]

22 minutes ago, Planemo said:

given we are loading the single spring only

I would think that it has springs on both tubes. I know MTB forks usually don't, but on an EUC it would make more sense to have a balanced system since the twisting forces are larger.

[DragonFZ]

I've pre-order deposit on the V13. Because I like the specs: 18650 cells, BMS configuration, injection battery protection, 55 mph and V11/V12 Beta Testing. I'm cautious because I pre-order deposit on the S22 and have not taken delivery/final payment with the many issues. That last batch of "new" wheels was a disappointment with so many problems. It also got me thinking that this new generation of wheels are exponentially more complicated than the toy performance (20-30 mph, 40 miles range) of previous wheels. Yeah, Begode keeps pushing the performance envelope but at the cost of proper development in battery protection and materials used.

[Planemo]

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I would think that it has springs on both tubes.

Yeah I think you may well be right, given there appears to be pre-load adjusters on both tubes.

We'll still need a range of springs though. But yeah, setup is more like an MC than an MTB.

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, fbhb said:

Video below posted by Wheel Tech Store seller:

Facebook

Potentially bad news. Too bad these are not the wheels destined to the dealers for testing. Wheel Tech is a store on Aliexpress.com, implying production has already begun. And to get good prices on parts to build them, Leaper Kim would have to order a minimum batch size to get the pricing. Same old, same old. 

[rebeuc]

Per the recent Hsiang video Eevees in Vancouver is getting a Sherman-S in soon

Timestamped video:

 

[Slartibartfast]

7 hours ago, fbhb said:

There does at least seem to be some finished examples at Leaperkim of the Sherman-S, getting prepped and made ready for shipping currently to Hmmmmm????

Video below posted by Wheel Tech Store seller:

Facebook

While there isn't much that can be gleamed from that footage it does at lease show that the tops of the stanchion are different colours, possibly indicating that the adjustment knobs do different things:

ie. that the left and right forks do serve different functions like the mountain bike forks they produce:

[Planemo]

I suspect that one leg will deal with rebound damping adjustment, the other compression. Blue is usually compression, red usually rebound.

We were discussing the usual MTB method of having one leg deal solely with the coil spring (or air spring) and the other leg deal with all the damping adjustments but this doesn't seem to be the case with the Sherman which is more like an MC setup.

[Rawnei]

8 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

V11/V12 Beta Testing. I'm cautious because I pre-order deposit on the S22 and have not taken delivery/final payment with the many issues. That last batch of "new" wheels was a disappointment with so many problems.

V13 is not an iteration of either of these two wheels, it's a brand new design so whatever flaws they fixed in those wheels have no bearing on the V13, you should be cautious of any new design.

[MrMonoWheel]

10 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

I've pre-order deposit on the V13. Because I like the specs: 18650 cells, BMS configuration, injection battery protection, 55 mph and V11/V12 Beta Testing. I'm cautious because I pre-order deposit on the S22 and have not taken delivery/final payment with the many issues. That last batch of "new" wheels was a disappointment with so many problems. It also got me thinking that this new generation of wheels are exponentially more complicated than the toy performance (20-30 mph, 40 miles range) of previous wheels. Yeah, Begode keeps pushing the performance envelope but at the cost of proper development in battery protection and materials used.

Same here. So far I still have my pre order in for the v13. The massive speed headroom is comforting.

[techyiam]

S22 vs Sherman-S    An interesting short comparison.

May have to try different playback speeds to catch more details. 

Note also that the weight of the S22 is 77 lbs.

Whereas, the Sherman-S weight is 97 lbs.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by techyiam

[RagingGrandpa]

On 9/16/2022 at 11:27 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

I think surface-mount is a welcome trend, versus through-hole, because:

• Avoids through-hole soldering, which was performed manually with terrible variation for these backside-mount components.
• Fewer components (no screws; no goop; no SIL pad) means decreased cost and also increased manufacturing repeatability. 
• Avoids leg-stress from bolting components to a planar heatsink (improves durability).
• Potential for even better heat transfer out of the IC's, especially when used with an aluminum-substrate PCB. 

Those cheap chunky TO-247 HY5012's from the MSX era had rather unimpressive ratings, and were problem prone (lots of dead-on-arrival or early-failing controllers because of manufacturing defects). I'm glad to see progress here.

 @U-Stride's old EX.N controller is a great example of why SMT is better than through-hole: manual soldering is often terrible!

Ignore red circle... so many dry pads here

[fbhb]

Back on Topic.

Wheel Tech Store have uploaded a YouTube Video of what I would imagine is the First unboxing of the Sherman-S. This particular model is a 58lbs spring version:

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Torque fight has been split off.

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

the First unboxing of the Sherman-S

Looks sexy!... :-)

[Planemo]

I must admit thats a very interesting wheel...!

[mrelwood]

I was expecting a bit more modern UI system by now. That traditional Sherman interface is so 80's.

[Planemo]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I was expecting a bit more modern UI system by now. That traditional Sherman interface is so 80's.

Well I guess it would be nice to have a fancy colour touch screen but I can live with an 80's display if the rest of the wheel is as reliable as the old Shermie.

Plus if it was a touch UI then people would moan they can't work it with gloves

 

[MrMonoWheel]

Im in class so I cant see the video yet but I agree with the screen thing. In the winter I wear gloves so not having a touchscreen is nice!

[fbhb]

6 hours ago, Planemo said:

I can live with an 80's display if the rest of the wheel is as reliable as the old Shermie.

Actually, I could even live Without an 80's display if the rest of the wheel is as reliable as my current Shermie, so a touchscreen has Zero appeal to me!

I now have the display permanently obscured by a Sur-ron seat anyways but have Always preferred a quick glance at my EUC World enabled smartwatch from a safety point of view. 

[MrMonoWheel]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

Actually, I could even live Without an 80's display if the rest of the wheel is as reliable as my current Shermie, so a touchscreen has Zero appeal to me!

I now have the display permanently obscured by a Sur-ron seat anyways but have Always preferred a quick glance at my EUC World enabled smartwatch from a safety point of view. 

While we are talking about safety and reliability, how does the Sherman lineup handle overpowering the wheel? For example, with my v11 if I push it too hard or fast it tilts me back to keep me from going any further.