Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[MrMonoWheel]

I'm waiting for reviews before I decide v13 or Sherman S. I like the grab handle/cage and higher voltage of the v13, but the Sherman's suspension seems to be better and I like the design much more. However it does cost more as well. 

[The Brahan Seer]

@Paul g @Daniel Clopton You guys need to read my statement properly. I said COMPARED to motorcycles et all they are toys and that the manufacturers are making them as toys but WE want and use them as much more. 

Come on if you compare the two: the build quality robustness, specifications and reliability do not compare.

So yes @Paul g Toys can cost any amount of money, and the manufacturers they don't need to realise anything. They make toys, you spend lots of money on them and use them beyond what the manufacturers intend and thats OK!

@Daniel Clopton Yes you can use an EUC in anyway you like and to you it is not a toy. Thats fine, no one said it wasn't. But to the manufacturer it is still a Toy. Now hopefully that will change and they will make decent EUC's that are a viable form of transport because at the moment they fall far short of any motorcycle or standard scooter quality wise. 

I hope you guys have a nice day, and enjoy your EUC's as much as I do. Peace out and back to the topic at hand.

 

[Paul g]

1 minute ago, The Brahan Seer said:

@Paul g @Daniel Clopton You guys need to read my statement properly. I said COMPARED to motorcycles et all they are toys and that the manufacturers are making them as toys but WE want and use them as much more. 

Come on if you compare the two: the build quality robustness, specifications and reliability do not compare.

So yes @Paul g Toys can cost any amount of money, and the manufacturers they don't need to realise anything. They make toys, you spend lots of money on them and use them beyond what the manufacturers intend and thats OK!

@Daniel Clopton Yes you can use an EUC in anyway you like and to you it is not a toy. Thats fine, no one said it wasn't. But to the manufacturer it is still a Toy. Now hopefully that will change and they will make decent EUC's that are a viable form of transport because at the moment they fall far short of any motorcycle or standard scooter quality wise. 

I hope you guys have a nice day, and enjoy your EUC's as much as I do. Peace out and back to the topic at hand.

 

Sorry if I miss understood you about this aspect.

I think I miss understood you also for the fact that you kind of try to play their advocate and finding pretexts for them being irresponsible, but any way, sorry for that.

[mrelwood]

 

On 9/29/2022 at 9:25 PM, Jon Wall said:

I have 7 euc's here now and none of them have acceptable lights .

I have only one working EUC, and it does have acceptable lights. Though I agree with you on that none of the other models seem to.

When I got my V11, I thought that from that day forward no new EUC would have crappy lights anymore since they could just copy the V11. Oh how naive and wrong I was. Turns out that they don't copy, mimick or even compete with safety and usability features like that, they only do it with performance specs.

On 9/29/2022 at 11:15 PM, Paul g said:

These are a mode of transportation, they go on the road and they need to be safe.

I kind of agree. But as you have deducted, the current EUCs are not necessarily safe to be used in road traffic. Which is why many countries have tough rules and limits for them, and some countries outright ban them. Maybe EUCs simply aren't mature enough to be used in road traffic.

On 9/29/2022 at 11:15 PM, Paul g said:

The laws require some minimum standards for light and that is for everyone’s safety.

 

On 9/29/2022 at 11:15 PM, Paul g said:

There is a standard for all types of transportation, according with their weight, speed and dimensions.

If there is, wouldn't that mean that EUCs are not a form of transportation? Because there aren't any lighting standards for EUCs.

No country has approved (modern) EUCs as legal road vehicles. The only reason we can keep using them is that the law is not being either monitored or followed.

[Paul g]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

If there is, wouldn't that mean that EUCs are not a form of transportation? 

 Once I’ve figured out how they work, my knitting noodles experience has changed… forever. 

[Daniel Clopton]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

@Paul g @Daniel Clopton You guys need to read my statement properly. I said COMPARED to motorcycles et all they are toys and that the manufacturers are making them as toys but WE want and use them as much more. 

Come on if you compare the two: the build quality robustness, specifications and reliability do not compare.

So yes @Paul g Toys can cost any amount of money, and the manufacturers they don't need to realise anything. They make toys, you spend lots of money on them and use them beyond what the manufacturers intend and thats OK!

@Daniel Clopton Yes you can use an EUC in anyway you like and to you it is not a toy. Thats fine, no one said it wasn't. But to the manufacturer it is still a Toy. Now hopefully that will change and they will make decent EUC's that are a viable form of transport because at the moment they fall far short of any motorcycle or standard scooter quality wise. 

I hope you guys have a nice day, and enjoy your EUC's as much as I do. Peace out and back to the topic at hand.

 

Okay, all these EUCs are made in China. You obviously aren't comparing them to Chinese made motorcycles. If you were then you'd be calling all Chinese vehicles toys. If you want better quality then we need some US or German made wheels. Unfortunately, they are banned in Germany, and would likely be limited to under 15mph if made in the US.

Now, how about we get back to the Sherman S. Any fresh news?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Daniel Clopton

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, Daniel Clopton said:

would likely be limited to under 15mph if made in the US.

Btw, what happened to the US made large (22" - 24") EUC from a few years back? The one that had a tire with white sidewalls. I think it did have a decent top speed for it's time, so it's possible it got buried under red tape or something.

[Daniel Clopton]

26 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Btw, what happened to the US made large (22" - 24") EUC from a few years back? The one that had a tire with white sidewalls. I think it did have a decent top speed for it's time, so it's possible it got buried under red tape or something.

Anyone can design a high speed EUC in the US, and make a one off in their garage. Passing regulations for mass production is a different story.

[enaon]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

No country has approved

One has to love the Greek lawmaker, I loosely translate:

(on pevs)
"One has to keep both hands on the steering wheel or handlebar, if a steering wheel or handlebar exists, unless he is signaling a change of course"

Edited October 1, 2022 by enaon

[Jon Wall]

32 minutes ago, enaon said:

One has to love the Greek lawmaker, I loosely translate:

(on pevs)
"One has to keep both hands on the steering wheel or handlebar, if a steering wheel or handlebar exists, unless he is signaling a change of course"

Does the Sherman front hoop handle count? One hand occasionally touching. I wonder how long we have to ride these before legislation ruins it? I'm fortunate to live in a rural mountain area with lots of options, but what about those in more populated/ regulated parts?

[enaon]

1 hour ago, Jon Wall said:

Does the Sherman front hoop handle count? One hand occasionally touching. I wonder how long we have to ride these before legislation ruins it? I'm fortunate to live in a rural mountain area with lots of options, but what about those in more populated/ regulated parts?

Maybe i got you confused, the Greek law maker acknowledges electric unicycles, I just like the way he excuse us from having to touch the steering wheel with both hands, this only applies if a steering wheel exists :)

Edited October 1, 2022 by enaon

[InfiniteWheelie]

This seems like the endgame for EUC suspension. Two large diameter, fully adjustable, center mounted, upside down forks...

Pros = fully adjustable, very rigid/strong, no guide rails, non-exposed, internally lubricated, absolute minimum unspring weight, and extremely simple/compact.

It's clearly better than those rear mounted single shock designs, or whatever mess the V13 is using with those two tiny pistons per side.

Edited October 1, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[MrMonoWheel]

3 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

This seems like the endgame for EUC suspension. Two large diameter, fully adjustable, center mounted, upside down forks...

Pros = fully adjustable, very rigid/strong, no guide rails, non-exposed, internally lubricated, absolute minimum unspring weight, and extremely simple/compact.

It's clearly better than those rear mounted single shock designs, or whatever mess the V13 is using with those two tiny pistons per side.

Yeah I agree. Nothing beats having a motorcycle style fork system. Only concern is the width it may add, but I'm sure it's negligible. As you said, this style of suspension is the best due to it's simplicity, tunability, and reliability. I just wish either the v13 was using this or I wish the Sherman S could compete with the 55mph wheels in terms of speed. I don't plan to be cruising at 55mph, more around 45. However I feel a lot safer utilizing 80% of a faster wheel vs 100% of the Sherman. Take into account the free spin speed of the v13 and it's even more of a difference.

[Planemo]

3 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

This seems like the endgame for EUC suspension. Two large diameter, fully adjustable, center mounted, upside down forks...

Pros = fully adjustable, very rigid/strong, no guide rails, non-exposed, internally lubricated, absolute minimum unspring weight, and extremely simple/compact.

It's clearly better than those rear mounted single shock designs, or whatever mess the V13 is using with those two tiny pistons per side.

Agreed. It's just takes someone to get the quality right. Hopefully the Sherman S does it. We can only hope the components are sufficient. I nearly wept when I saw another wheel (can't remember which one it was) using bronze(?) dry bushings for the stanchions. The murmurs were that there was a little bit of play (no surprise) and that this was required to allow free movement. LOL. And the stanchions were already showing signs of scoring etc (surprise again).

All the decent fork manufacturers manage to get virtually frictionless movement with ZERO play, using properly honed PTFE lined bushings which of course, being well hidden away from the elements, also last forever. My old RockShox Rebas were 10 years old at the time I sold the bike and there was still zero play in the forks. As long as the outer wipers and internal oil sponges are serviced properly and the lowers are cleaned and re-greased at the same time, the PTFE bushings themselves simply never need maintenance as nothing nasty ever gets anywhere near them and as a result wear is absolutely minimal.

But...it all rests on how accurately the stanchions have been produced (and they MUST be coated with something decent, usually a Ti-Nitride of some sort), how strong they are and how well the bushings have been sized to them at the factory. If Veteran/FastAce gets that right, it'll be golden.

[enaon]

45 minutes ago, Unicycle Santa said:

Take into account the free spin speed of the v13

I think no one should take this into account, till it is verified they did not inflate it by 20-30 kph, by mistake of course. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by enaon

[MrMonoWheel]

1 hour ago, enaon said:

I think no one should take this into account, till it is verified they did not inflate it by 20-30 kph, by mistake of course. 

You mean this? 

 

139-140km/h exactly as advertised.

 

 

[InfiniteWheelie]

 

4 hours ago, Unicycle Santa said:

I just wish either the v13 was using this or I wish the Sherman S could compete with the 55mph wheels in terms of speed. I don't plan to be cruising at 55mph, more around 45.

Yeah I wish the there was a wheel with the features of the V13 (size, power, redundancy) and the suspension of the Sherman S. I'll just have to wait for a future wheel that combines all those things. With how quickly things seem to be moving lately, it may not be too long.

 

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

Agreed. It's just takes someone to get the quality right. Hopefully the Sherman S does it. We can only hope the components are sufficient. I nearly wept when I saw another wheel (can't remember which one it was) using bronze(?) dry bushings for the stanchions. The murmurs were that there was a little bit of play (no surprise) and that this was required to allow free movement. LOL. And the stanchions were already showing signs of scoring etc (surprise again).

All the decent fork manufacturers manage to get virtually frictionless movement with ZERO play, using properly honed PTFE lined bushings which of course, being well hidden away from the elements, also last forever. My old RockShox Rebas were 10 years old at the time I sold the bike and there was still zero play in the forks. As long as the outer wipers and internal oil sponges are serviced properly and the lowers are cleaned and re-greased at the same time, the PTFE bushings themselves simply never need maintenance as nothing nasty ever gets anywhere near them and as a result wear is absolutely minimal.

But...it all rests on how accurately the stanchions have been produced (and they MUST be coated with something decent, usually a Ti-Nitride of some sort), how strong they are and how well the bushings have been sized to them at the factory. If Veteran/FastAce gets that right, it'll be golden.

Yeah by end game I just mean this style of suspension. You're right the quality and adjustability has the be there. 

In fact maybe these could last even longer than on mountain bikes or motorcycles, since they're sealed away from dirt and water inside the battery case.

Edited October 2, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

In fact maybe these could last even longer than on mountain bikes or motorcycles, since they're sealed away from dirt and water inside the battery case.

In theory yes... but I'll reserve judgement on that for the mo...an EUC will subject the forks to far more front/back stresses than an MTB imo. Just as importantly, MTB's run very slack rake, around 60 odd degrees which takes a lot of the stress out seen by the the bushes under braking. With EUC's running bolt upright forks, thats a hella lotta stress running perpendicular to the action.

Won't be a problem if they run big enough diameters, but I'm out on that as well at the moment, as I mentioned previously - I'm not convinced that the Shermans are big enough. I appreciate that the travel is a lot less than on MTBs and a shorter stanchion can afford to be slimmer in terms of strength but theres still a lot of sideways stress being applied to those bushings and the skinnier they are the less surface area they have to deal with it.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Planemo

[InfiniteWheelie]

10 minutes ago, Planemo said:

In theory yes... but I'll reserve judgement on that for the mo...an EUC will subject the forks to far more front/back stresses than an MTB imo, especially given an MTB hardly gives any stress applied from the rear. Just as importantly, MTB's run very slack rake, around 60 odd degrees which takes a lot of the stress out seen by the the bushes under braking. With EUC's running bolt upright forks, thats a hella lotta stress running perpendicular to the action.

Won't be a problem if they run big enough diameters, but I'm out on that as well at the moment, as I mentioned previously - I'm not convinced that the Shermans are big enough. I appreciate that the travel is a lot less than on MTBs and a shorter stanchion can afford to be slimmer in terms of strength but theres still a lot of sideways stress being applied to those bushings and the skinnier they are the less surface area they have to deal with it.

Those are good points. More stress at high lean, but much shorter length which helps to counteract that. Perhaps the Sherman S forks could be made even beefier, but time will tell how they hold up.

Edited October 2, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[enaon]

4 hours ago, Unicycle Santa said:

139-140km/h exactly as advertised.

 

I am not so sure, I do not disagree that the number reads 140 if this is what you understood

inmotion was never as advertised, a 10% off is standard, maybe they went for 20% this time. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon

[techyiam]

42 minutes ago, enaon said:

inmotion was never as advertised, a 10% off is standard, maybe they went for 20% this time. 

Can you give past example wheels where they were inflated by 10%? Was the V12 falsely advertised too?

[enaon]

10 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Can you give past example wheels where they were inflated by 10%? Was the V12 falsely advertised too?

I am not sure, but see no reason not to be, no one really cared the v11 was off by ~10%. This is not an inmotion only thing, till some time ago kingsong was off by more than 10%, closer to 15%.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon

[fbhb]

6 minutes ago, enaon said:

This is not an inmotion only thing

I can confirm that the Sherman has always been 6% overstated with the knobby fitted and for me now with the Michelin City Pro 8% out. ALL wheels/brands are usually way over-reporting their speeds!

Fortunately, we have EUC World to add the necessary correction for both speed and distance via @Seba's wonderful app.

Edited October 2, 2022 by fbhb

[enaon]

true on the sherman, recent gotway firmwares seems to be doing better on this, some say they are spot on.

but in any case, the v13 having a HT motor and a free spin of 140 at 126volt system makes little sense, I would not take it too serious.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon

[enaon]

14 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Fortunately, we have

the s18 with the GS-45F is spot on too, this makes it 1kph faster that the v11 on fancy mode 

Edited October 2, 2022 by enaon