Begode Master Pro 22” 4800wh 134v

[Denny Paul]

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

No question. But the polls and EUCW tour data suggest that 60+ kmh riders are a minuscule minority. Yet 67% of the new wheels are aimed at less than 10% of the riders.

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse here. Perhaps the data reflects that because people don’t feel comfortable going that fast on todays wheels. When we have bigger and badder wheels, then the average speed is likely to increase. In 2016, people couldn’t fathom 30mph wheels, and the averages then likely would have been 10mph.

Pattern always seems to be:

1) new cutting tech for extreme users who don’t mind crashing as much

2) refinement of tech

3) adoption by average users

i think we’re seeing step 2 now with the v13 and the master pro. This is when I get the most excited and tend to spend money.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Denny Paul

[Paradox]

Preorders open.

https://www.ewheels.com/product/begode-masterpro-1000-deposit/

[Nick McCutcheon]

Yes!!! This is the wheel I've been waiting for, a portable motorcycle. And now the wait begins.

[techyiam]

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Well, it's going to stop at some point. There were numerous riders waiting to preorder the V13 but backed out when they heard the weight and tire diameter. Me included.

Fair enough.

Begode seem to have the major bases covered though. For 2023, they will have their new generation of suspended metal chassis line up completed: T4, Master, and Master Pro.

When the Sherman first came out, didn't the euc community balked at the price and weight. It took some time for the pioneers to appreciate the compromise between improved performance, and lost of agility, increase in effort and price.

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Top speed stability comes at huge costs, so wheels stable at top speed are an unattractive option for the vast majority of riders. They are too heavy to lift, feel like a large hog between your legs, they're not at all agile at slow to slowish speeds, they require hugely more effort to brake, accelerate and climb a hill, they cost twice what used to be a normal price just a year ago, and so on. All of this so that it would be more stable at 90km/h, a speed that only a handful of riders will ever reach. That doesn't sound right.

Wasn't the same line of reasoning used against the Veteran Sherman too, when it was released?

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

But the polls and EUCW tour data suggest that 60+ kmh riders are a minuscule minority.

Chicken and egg paradox. Faulty logic. When the Sherman was released, you can say the exact same thing except the speed was lower. The status quo data is not proof that the new market segment cannot develop successfully. 

 

I am certainly glad that the manufacturers are willing to put in the money and effort to help develop this market segment. Right now it is too early to tell which way it will go.

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

Yes!!! This is the wheel I've been waiting for, a portable motorcycle. And now the wait begins.

It certainly looks like all the critical pieces have come together. 

It has the weight, and gyro effects to help fight against the wind destabilizing effects.

It has the tire, gyro effects, weight, and suspension to make the wheel feel stable, planted, and comfortable. 

It has the motor performance. 

It has the battery capacity and discharge rate.

It has the free spin speed to support high speed motoring with good safety margin. 

It supports seated riding.

 

[wstuart]

 

 

......applies to Inmotion too....

Edited August 13, 2022 by wstuart

[chanman]

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, bigger wheel and doubling up on packs was a pretty logical extension of the master if they wanted to compete in that segment. I wonder what we'll see for the motor, still C38 but on a bigger rim, or something new?

[wstuart]

10 minutes ago, chanman said:

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, bigger wheel and doubling up on packs was a pretty logical extension of the master if they wanted to compete in that segment. I wonder what we'll see for the motor, still C38 but on a bigger rim, or something new?

4000w would be a c40 I think........ Ex and Monster motor

 

..... I was hoping for a 134v Monster pro..... I guess that's what this is.

Edited August 14, 2022 by wstuart

[mrelwood]

I'm sorry I sound like a broken record, but I guess that's what I am.

Zen Lee mentioned on his video on the Master Pro introduction that after the last ride he had 3 bars of battery left on his Master, so it has "battery to spare". Then he goes on comparing the Master Pro to the V13, and says that he's more interested in the Master Pro because it has a bigger battery. Like... huh?

6 of the 19 comments on the video would prefer lighter wheels, and one even commented about Begode just pushing numbers. And I fully agree. I just don't get why some people are so blind to that. Nobody buys a car purely because of a few separate higher specs, do they?

 

[UtahRider]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I'm sorry I sound like a broken record, but I guess that's what I am.

Zen Lee mentioned on his video on the Master Pro introduction that after the last ride he had 3 bars of battery left on his Master, so it has "battery to spare". Then he goes on comparing the Master Pro to the V13, and says that he's more interested in the Master Pro because it has a bigger battery. Like... huh?

6 of the 19 comments on the video would prefer lighter wheels, and one even commented about Begode just pushing numbers. And I fully agree. I just don't get why some people are so blind to that. Nobody buys a car purely because of a few separate higher specs, do they?

 

I can only assume your bias against these large, fast wheels is because of where you live. If you ride the fast, large, open roads we do in the states, I’m sure you’d see the light. These bigger EUCs just fit in better with the type of roads and traffic we  experience here.

[techyiam]

38 minutes ago, UtahRider said:

If you ride the fast, large, open roads we do in the states, I’m sure you’d see the light. These bigger EUCs just fit in better with the type of roads and traffic we  experience here.

And with an acclimated, skilled rider, the risk exposure should be very similar to that of a rider on a small displacement motorcycle.

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam

[Whalesmash]

At the weight and price that this thing comes in at, it's hardly the wheel for me. It almost weighs as much as I do. That being said, it should be the undisputed range/sustained speed king. 4800WH is no joke, 25% more than the current highest capacity wheel. We can say what we will about Begode and their track record, but once again, it is them pushing EUCs to a whole new level.

[techyiam]

If we look at how eucgirl can ride wheels that are so much heavier than her, I believe it should be possible for many to learn to ride 110 lbs wheels.

But it only make sense if it fits your use case, and you can manage to get it in and out of your dwelling.

For me, I already know it will be a tall order. Coming from a V12, it will be a huge jump. When I was on the Abrams, I experienced the weight and bulk of a 100 lbs wheel first hand. But that didn't turned me off. It still felt well balanced.

If I can learn to ride on a V13 or a Master Pro, it will be worth the investment, since I will be on a whole different level.

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, UtahRider said:

I can only assume your bias against these large, fast wheels is because of where you live. If you ride the fast, large, open roads we do in the states, I’m sure you’d see the light. These bigger EUCs just fit in better with the type of roads and traffic we  experience here.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I do think that the behemoths do have a place in the markets. But I see zero point in every single manufacturer concentrating in making the behemoths for several years while the larger segments get nothing.

2 hours ago, Whalesmash said:

once again, it is them pushing EUCs to a whole new level.

They launch more models than all other manufacturers combined. It's no surprise that it makes sense for them to span the product range further than the rest. Although, even with them the Monster, Monster Pro, Master Pro, and EX20S all step on each others' toes, while the T4 is the only new model of what we call a regular size.

Their investment per model is a fraction from the others', so ditching a model that doesn't sell or even really work isn't that big of a deal. To me this looks like a definite bye bye to a few large models.

What they will always lack with this business model though is refinement. I switched from the MSX to a V11 3 years ago, and the increase in refinement, function, practicality, sense, riding enjoyment and owning enjoyment was tremendous at every single square cm of the wheel. And in the firmware and app just as well. Especially the firmware and the riding modes. People who have never owned an Inmotion will never understand any of this, and how it can change the relationship you have with your wheel. The hunt for the next shiny new wheel simply stopped when I already had a wheel I was almost fully satisfied with. New wheels pop up here and there, and I still don't have a reason to "up"grade, after 3 years.

Same happened with my mobile phone back when I got the iPhone 6S. I have since upgraded once because it broke, not because I needed or wanted better or shinier. I think Americans are probably more accustomed to a lease model with upgrades rather than ownership.  For example the early iPhone sale models were very difficult to fit in the Finnish atmosphere.

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

I believe it should be possible for many to learn to ride 110 lbs wheels.

Practically everybody, sure. But why would they, if they would have to give up so many elements, many of which got them hooked into the hobby in the first place?

If Master Pro & co. was the only EUC size group in existence, they would all be simply amazing, magical, and all that jazz. But we now have a wide selection of other market sectors to compare it to, in which they don't fare at all well. For most riders.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Practically everybody, sure. But why would they, if they would have to give up so many elements, many of which got them hooked into the hobby in the first place?

Maybe, or maybe not, depending on the individual. 

When I first bought my V12, I thought it was heavy, bulky and harder to ride. I really thought that that is the price I have to pay for more stability. But to my surprise, my legs got stronger after a few months. Balancing the wheel with one leg wasn't anymore difficult than with the T3. In fact, the V12 became the norm in every way, except for lifting. Since the V12 is now so much better than the T3, the T3 has become more of a backup wheel. Although the V12 is only 15 lbs heavier, the perceived weight is much heavier for me. I have became stronger though, and have adapted. I no longer consider the T3 to have any significant advantages over my V12. Before, I had to lug the V12 up some steps, but even that is gone. 

I fully expect a 110 lbs wheel to remain a big and heavy wheel. The question is how I will feel about it after a year of ownership.

I own a 600 lbs, a 400 lbs and a 300 lbs motorcycles. There is no question the heavier motorcycle is going to feel heavier. However, I have adapted to each one, and ride each one differently. And I like all three for their intended purposes. I am excited to explore the 110 lbs heavy crusier class to see how I will like them, since I am riding more and more on the road.

Moreover, since 65 lbs to 110 lbs is a big jump, I may get an euc inbetween the V12 and the V13 also.

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam

[Robse]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

If we look at how eucgirl can ride wheels that are so much heavier than her, I believe it should be possible for many to learn to ride 110 lbs wheels.

But it only make sense if it fits your use case, and you can manage to get it in and out of your dwelling.

For me, I already know it will be a tall order. Coming from a V12, it will be a huge jump. When I was on the Abrams, I experienced the weight and bulk of a 100 lbs wheel first hand. But that didn't turned me off. It still felt well balanced.

If I can learn to ride on a V13 or a Master Pro, it will be worth the investment, since I will be on a whole different level.

EUCgirl is a natural talent, respect for that ( i will never ever get that good  ) .  But she is nothing without her father or friends to help handling the wheel.  How many people are able to lift a wheel of +50 Kg?  Whats next; a wheel of 70 Kg?  If such a wheel by accident turns over on its side, a child of 10 - 14 years will not be able to get it upright again.   If you are not able to handle your wheel, and have to call friends to help just getting it into the trunk of a car, then how much fun is that?   My driving instructor (motorcycle license) had a wise word about that: Don't buy a motorcycle that is bigger than you can pick it up yourself if it falls. These heavy wheels a targeting a very small market of riders who have good income, and are not afraid of loosing 4000 - 5000 dollars (thats a lot of money!) in case of a crash or a little bonfire ....

[techyiam]

 

24 minutes ago, Robse said:

How many people are able to lift a wheel of +50 Kg?

Hard to say without first having a chance to look into it. However, I have handled an Abrams before. No question that it’s heavy, but it is not impossible.

With the right technique, look at what some people can do. That is a 500 lbs bike  

 

[Greg X]

very interresting project, true long range cruiser.

1800wh more than v13 in similiar weight and cheaper price

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Robse said:

These heavy wheels a targeting a very small market of riders who have good income, and are not afraid of loosing 4000 - 5000 dollars (thats a lot of money!) in case of a crash or a little bonfire ....

I don't know if you would consider the Sherman, EX.N market big or not. I suspect the Sherman's and the EX.N"s got some riders to leave the bicycle paths and onto the road. I have a hunch that the manufacturers are trying to provide the means for some of those riders to ride safer, and faster. 

Regarding costs, the alternatives are not cheaper, though. If I don't have a Master Pro, or V13 to be able travel further out, I would have driven, or riden a motorcycle instead.

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam

[DavidB]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

....... I bet Mr GW/BG looked at the V13 and decided that they're NOT going to stand second in the heaviest wheel contest!

 

Marty Backe mentioned months ago (on a Duf live stream I think) that he was not going to get a Master as he would wait for the 22" 4800Wh Begode suspension wheel. He obviously has a good source (and he obviously DID get a Master anyway). My point being it seems like Begode were riding around on this thing BEFORE Inmotion mentioned any specs so saying they reacted to Inmotion does not seem to be the case. 

My personal view is Begode operates a bit like a SkunkWorks operation. Marty says he wants range, so they grab another 4 Master battery packs...."Hmm..they stick out in front of the tire. What about if we use that 22" wheel from over there?" "Yeh, that'll work" ... "Hmm the weight and wheel diametre kills the Master motor zip." "Well, HB makes a bigger 4500W motor for not much more. Lets try that"..."If Millie can ride it the Americans will love it."

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What they will always lack with this business model though is refinement. I switched from the MSX to a V11 3 years ago, and the increase in refinement, function, practicality, sense, riding enjoyment and owning enjoyment was tremendous at every single square cm of the wheel.

I think you may be underestimating Begode's new gen metal suspension chassis like the Hero. The Hero has a more refined, premium feel than the V12. The Master felt pretty good too.

[meepmeepmayer]

On 8/13/2022 at 9:35 PM, mrelwood said:

But why do these manufacturers suddenly think that the Monster size class would start selling in any meaningful numbers?

I believe these sell in meaningful numbers. First of all, a meaningful number can be smaller for an expensive wheel, because higher absolute profit per unit. Second, I'm always surprised how many friggin Monsters are around in all these group ride videos. People take them up crazy mountain paths with Marty and whatnot, whereas I literally cut a test ride short because I flat out disliked that awful sluggish thing below my feet too much. People like 'em.

On 8/13/2022 at 9:35 PM, mrelwood said:

EX20S

The EX20S is a 20 incher. Did you add it to the 22 incher group because of the weight?

-

On the Master Pro, while I'm pretty sure I'd hate to ride it (absolutely love the battery, though), here's not only one of the most enjoyable EUC videos I've ever seen, but also a great example for whom the Master Pro will be perfect. Just that Monster Pro guy in the video. Some people just want to go distances on roads.

[widdershins]

14 hours ago, mrelwood said:

But I see zero point in every single manufacturer concentrating in making the behemoths for several years while the larger segments get nothing.

this is a baffling statement to make when the master and T4 literally already exist. sure, it makes a certain kind of sense, if you ignore all the information from a reality that broadly contradicts it.

inmotion still makes all their smaller wheels. kingsong still makes all their smaller wheels. begode does too, and has already announced NEW small wheels (the T4). kingsong's biggest new wheel didn't even enter new territory, it's slower and has a smaller battery than the ex.n.

to me this just sounds awfully similar to hater speak from someone who's mostly just mad that people are hyped up about new products pushing into a market segment that previously had nothing, as their ideal machine that does not exist yet is somewhere in that space.

it cannot be overemphasized everyone in the larger segments you're talking about already have literally everything else, and as the market expands and more people buy into it, it becomes viable to make more products out in the edges. enthusiasts are naturally going to be most interested in the new and exciting things that haven't been seen before.

Edited August 14, 2022 by widdershins

[Gingomx]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I believe these sell in meaningful numbers. First of all, a meaningful number can be smaller for an expensive wheel, because higher absolute profit per unit. Second, I'm always surprised how many friggin Monsters are around in all these group ride videos. People take them up crazy mountain paths with Marty and whatnot, whereas I literally cut a test ride short because I flat out disliked that awful sluggish thing below my feet too much. People like 'em.

The EX20S is a 20 incher. Did you add it to the 22 incher group because of the weight?

-

On the Master Pro, while I'm pretty sure I'd hate to ride it (absolutely love the battery, though), here's not only one of the most enjoyable EUC videos I've ever seen, but also a great example for whom the Master Pro will be perfect. Just that Monster Pro guy in the video. Some people just want to go distances on roads.

You need to ride the monster pro for a good while to see why people love that wheel. It is stable and safe, especially at speed - even 50 mph

[DavidB]

Denis' review of the Monster Pro with Michelin tire almost convinced me

But then I remembered Marty almost having a heart attack pushing it up a trail....

Edited August 15, 2022 by DavidB