V12 Cutout tracking

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, spitfire1337 said:

If you don't know what EE is then your surely not qualified to make those kind of decisions... just my 2cents

Except when he has the info from an actual EE  🤓 🤓

[Tawpie]

9 hours ago, daniel1234 said:

There are just 3 things you need to check replacement mosfet (all written in datasheet - don't believe people in internet :D)

Because the MOSFET's various performance characteristics are so key to everything else, it's traditional to start by choosing a MOSFET, then design the drive circuit and heat management around that specific part. There will be some wiggle room for substitution, but to be thorough you must know the details about everything around your MOSFET so you can be more certain you're not causing other problems in the system.

Just because an Isuzu Trooper is the same color, has 4 wheel drive and fits in the same garage it isn't automatically qualified as a suitable replacement for a Land Rover. It might be fine. But the devil is always in the details.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[daniel1234]

21 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Because the MOSFET's various performance characteristics are so key to everything else, it's traditional to start by choosing a MOSFET, then design the drive circuit and heat management around that specific part. There will be some wiggle room for substitution, but to be thorough you must know the details about everything around your MOSFET so you can be more certain you're not causing other problems in the system.

Just because an Isuzu Trooper is the same color, has 4 wheel drive and fits in the same garage it isn't automatically qualified as a suitable replacement for a Land Rover. It might be fine. But the devil is always in the details.

There is theory and commercial practice. So give me model number of mosfet driver if you wanna prove me wrong  - we can check datasheet. We change normally FETs at industrial drives according market availability. Usually part what was chosen at design stage are out of stock when production starts.

Just saying I am surprised that so many of you are waiting for immotion - TO220 are easy to replace if they are busted. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by daniel1234

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Just saying I am surprised that so many of you are waiting for immotion - TO220 are easy to replace if they are busted. 

Well, back when Inmotion acknowledged the defect, and offered a fix, they did offer to send the new updated mosfets to the dealers and distributors, which in turn would send to their customers. They even made a How-To video. However, that didn't happen. The dealers and distributors didn't like that solution.

Edited July 20, 2022 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

"Please start soldering" is not an acceptable solution

Does anybody know if the V12 HS is supposed to be getting the TO-247 board (of the V12 HT)? What is the latest, most up-to-date board that the V12 HS has or will have? Just the "replacement board", or is there something new in the works?

Edited July 20, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[techyiam]

34 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Does anybody know if the V12 HS is supposed to be getting the TO-247 board (of the V12 HT)? What is the latest, most up-to-date board that the V12 HS has or will have?

The latest info I have is from @pico post:

 

[Cress]

I sent the following request to @Jason McNeil, eWheels a couple of days ago:

 

Jason;

I expect Inmotion designed the current-version V12 HS heat-sink to fit a new HS motor-control board AND mount the original
mother-board. A batch 1 or 2 wheel should convert to current version V12 HS wheel by replacing heat-sink + control-board, using original mother-board.

I'm making assumptions that 1) current version heat-sink is a drop-in installation in an original-version wheel, and 2) current-
version heat-sink mounts original-version mother-board.  

Can you check my above assumptions about the physical configuration?  

 

Jason hasn't responded yet.  Any  Distributor could answer the question - and if the answer is 'Yes,' then an original V12 HS is an easy up-grade to current versions of Mother-board and Driver-board.

I plan to install and use the Hunteck replacement board + original heat sink on one V12, maintain a 2nd V12 with current hardware.  My understanding of the V12 is that it's a good design, good build quality, good value at its' price and likely to be supported and in production at Inmotion for several years. 

I'd like to find out how and why Inmotion made their original stupid choice on the original Motor-Controller. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Cress
/ /

[Paul g]

4 hours ago, Cress said:

1) current-version heat-sink mounts original-version mother-board

No. The motherboard doesn’t go on the heatsink, the motor control board goes there. The motherboard is the smaller board that sits on top of the drive board, in the plastic top case. He is saying that the motherboard doesn’t need change, only the heatsink and the drive board need to because the heatsink depends on drive board shape.

[Cress]

34 minutes ago, Paul g said:

No. The motherboard doesn’t go on the heatsink, the motor control board goes there. The motherboard is the smaller board that sits on top of the drive board, in the plastic top case. He is saying that the motherboard doesn’t need change, only the heatsink and the drive board need to because the heatsink depends on drive board shape.

Confirmation that both mother-board and motor-controller are compatible with the heat-sink is helpful, mounting hardware attaches to the heat-sink, physical clearances are a consideration.   If a Distributor says 'it fits' I'll order parts right away. 

Unless an issue is uncovered, batch 1+2 V12s have different heat-sink and motor controller compared to the current version V12 HS, no other differences.   My V12 isn't going on Craig's List this year.  

Edited July 20, 2022 by Cress
/

[adrianqbs]

On 6/22/2022 at 1:04 PM, adrianqbs said:

Hi all,

Here's an update on the third board burnout. Inmotion had given the greenlight to open up the wheel to assess the damage and this is what we found. Waiting for feedback now to see how it goes. Most likely will send them all the damaged driver (2) and control (3) boards for them to investigate and try to figure out what has happened. Hopefully, will be able to send them the entire heatsink and board cover aseembly, get them to install and test the entire unit before sending it back to us.

On the other hand, got a nice nice Begode RS HT to tide me over in the meantime. The highlight would surely be the speakers, makes the rides just that much more entertaining.

 

 

Hey All,

 

THE SAGA CONTINUES

After sending all the boards back, Inmotion sent over a control board with pre-installed to the heatsink with the clear top cover.

UNFORTUNATELY, it would seem that the motherboards are not in stock and will have to be sent over later, at a date yet uncertain. This is looking like it will take a very very long time to resolve.

[techyiam]

2 minutes ago, adrianqbs said:

UNFORTUNATELY, it would seem that the motherboards are not in stock and will have to be sent over later, at a date yet uncertain. This is looking like it will take a very very long time to resolve.

Thank you for the update. Sorry to hear that.

[Staysrunning]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:26 AM, adrianqbs said:

 

Hey All,

 

THE SAGA CONTINUES

After sending all the boards back, Inmotion sent over a control board with pre-installed to the heatsink with the clear top cover.

UNFORTUNATELY, it would seem that the motherboards are not in stock and will have to be sent over later, at a date yet uncertain. This is looking like it will take a very very long time to resolve.

Hey all, I'm finally contemplating the purchase of an euc, though I've been interested for years. There is a good looking V12 for sale with a 1.5 year warranty from Alien Rides, and a replacement control board enroute to be installed. I very much dislike the the idea of a cutout, but if I got a wheel, I would want to commute at 30mph and push it to full speed at times.

What do y'all think? According to the past and current events, can I expect these cutouts to be resolved soon? If not, from a cutout occurrence POV, what are the other comparable EUCs that are safer than the V12?

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, Staysrunning said:

Hey all, I'm finally contemplating the purchase of an euc, though I've been interested for years. There is a good looking V12 for sale with a 1.5 year warranty from Alien Rides, and a replacement control board enroute to be installed. I very much dislike the the idea of a cutout, but if I got a wheel, I would want to commute at 30mph and push it to full speed at times.

What do y'all think? According to the past and current events, can I expect these cutouts to be resolved soon? If not, from a cutout occurrence POV, what are the other comparable EUCs that are safer than the V12?

Since you are new to the euc world, there are things you need to learn and understand first.

There many unexpected ways to get hurt on an euc. There are different ways for an euc to cut out. 

Inmotion V12 is not a learner's wheel (64 lbs). For the average learner, it can take a much longer time to learn on. Learner wheels are usually under 50 lbs.

Unlike an e-bike, you just don't go fast and brake hard right away. There is a long learning curve. Don't be surprised if your mind changed along the way when you are learning. 

I like the V12, and would recommend to anyone who already knows how to ride. I have never had a cut out on my V12, but there have been people who have. My V12 is not the high torque version. With the new warranty replacement driver board, and 1.6.19 firmware update, I feel the probability of it cutting out is low, not higher than other euc's. But be aware that it is possible to cause an cutout on any euc. Wearing protective gear is a must on an euc. You need to understand what not to do. But, during the early learning phase, cutouts usually are not a concern.

If you insist, it is possible to learn on a V12, and some of those who have are members of this forum.

Edited July 25, 2022 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

You can learn on any wheel if it's the wheel you want! People have learned on Monsters.

The V12 HT seems to be good. The V12 HS with the replacement board... make sure the board is ok and installed properly.

[Staysrunning]

Thanks for the responses guys. I recognize that I am not looking at beginner wheels as my first wheel, I plan to wear full safety gear, and I don't expect to be riding 30mph in my first week. That said, I am familiar with downhill long boarding and using relaxed weight shift  to calm speed wobbles. I expect some of those behaviors will ease my learning process. 

I know that all wheels can have cutouts. But I don't want to be scared of my wheel cutting out when I am not even pushing the limits. I saw in an above post that replacement motherboards were intended to be sent out but had been delayed. Until reading that post, I thought the issue was simply in the control board. How many of these cutouts were due to failures in the motherboard?

However appealing the nimbleness and aesthetics of the V12 are, I may instead look for a Begode, if there is a lower chance of it dumping me during routine use due to machine error.

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, Staysrunning said:

Thanks for the responses guys. I recognize that I am not looking at beginner wheels as my first wheel, I plan to wear full safety gear, and I don't expect to be riding 30mph in my first week. That said, I am familiar with downhill long boarding and using relaxed weight shift  to calm speed wobbles. I expect some of those behaviors will ease my learning process. 

I know that all wheels can have cutouts. But I don't want to be scared of my wheel cutting out when I am not even pushing the limits. I saw in an above post that replacement motherboards were intended to be sent out but had been delayed. Until reading that post, I thought the issue was simply in the control board. How many of these cutouts were due to failures in the motherboard?

However appealing the nimbleness and aesthetics of the V12 are, I may instead look for a Begode, if there is a lower chance of it dumping me during routine use due to machine error.

Any V12 bought from a serious reseller will have the updated board already installed.

If there's any delaysn announced by Inmotion (I haven't seen this) it's for additional batches i.e. production can't keep up, and with that said many V12 owners already got their replacement boards (I'm one of them).

[Staysrunning]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Any V12 bought from a serious reseller will have the updated board already installed.

If there's any delaysn announced by Inmotion (I haven't seen this) it's for additional batches i.e. production can't keep up, and with that said many V12 owners already got their replacement boards (I'm one of them).

 

On 7/21/2022 at 2:26 AM, adrianqbs said:

 

Hey All,

 

THE SAGA CONTINUES

After sending all the boards back, Inmotion sent over a control board with pre-installed to the heatsink with the clear top cover.

UNFORTUNATELY, it would seem that the motherboards are not in stock and will have to be sent over later, at a date yet uncertain. This is looking like it will take a very very long time to resolve.

Rawnei, I was referencing this earlier post by adrianqbs, in which he implied that motherboards are another replacement issue in addition to the control board. Do you not believe this to be the case?

[techyiam]

51 minutes ago, Staysrunning said:

he implied that motherboards are another replacement issue in addition to the control board.

You need to read his original post regarding the main controller boad. There are no known issues with the V12 main controller board. Note that the main controller board had no issues until he and his dealer worked on his V12.
 

 

 

[Staysrunning]

15 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You need to read his original post regarding the main controller boad. There are no known issues with the V12 main controller board. Note that the main controller board had no issues until he and his dealer worked on his V12.
 

 

 

Thank you for clarifying. So to clarify, the V12 has three control boards? One blue, one black, and a "main control board". Adrian had cutouts on the blue and the black control boards, but not on the "main control board." And functional replacements have already been sent out/are being sent out for these blue and black boards. If my understanding so far is correct, then in Adrienne's last post, where he mentioned control boards and motherboards, he was talking about the same boards, and that some people may have to wait a while to get their replacement boards. Is my understanding correct?

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Staysrunning said:

Thank you for clarifying. So to clarify, the V12 has three control boards? One blue, one black, and a "main control board". Adrian had cutouts on the blue and the black control boards, but not on the "main control board." And functional replacements have already been sent out/are being sent out for these blue and black boards. If my understanding so far is correct, then in Adrienne's last post, where he mentioned control boards and motherboards, he was talking about the same boards, and that some people may have to wait a while to get their replacement boards. Is my understanding correct?

The V12 has only two boards.

(1) Main controller board.

(2) Driver board.

The main controller board is never talked about except for Adrian.

The original driver board has a blue colored circuit board. This is the board that has the under spec'd mosfets, and is being replaced. 

The new warranty replacement driver board that every V12 owner (with the blue driver board) is getting is black in color. The only time that a black driver board needs to be replaced is when something was done wrong during installation. It is not straight forward to get everything done properly. Shorting of the mosfets, and hot running issues can arise if the new driver board not installed properly. 

For someone buying a new V12 High Speed version from a dealer, communicate with them to make sure that the unit has the new black driver board. Like others have said, new V12's from reputable dealers would mostly have the black driver board already. Reputable dealers would not send out new V12's with the blue boards because shipping is very expensive. And reputable dealers will honor warranty claims. And hence, shipping out new V12's with the defective driver board would be plainly dumb.

Edited July 26, 2022 by techyiam

[Staysrunning]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

The V12 has only two boards.

(1) Main controller board.

(2) Driver board.

The main controller board is never talked about except for Adrian.

The original driver board has a blue colored circuit board. This is the board that has the under spec'd mosfets, and is being replaced. 

The new warranty replacement driver board that every V12 owner (with the blue driver board) is getting is black in color. The only time that a black driver board needs to be replaced is when something is amiss during installation. It is not a straight forward installation to do it properly. There are shorting and running hot issues if not installed properly. 

For someone buying a new V12 High Speed version from a dealer, communicate with them to make sure that the unit has the new black driver board. Like others have said, new V12's from reputable dealers would mostly have the black driver board already. Reputable dealers would not send out new V12's with the blue boards because shipping is very expensive. And they will honor the warranty claims. Shipping out new V12's with the defective driver board would be plainly dumb.

Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate your help.

[adrianqbs]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:49 AM, Staysrunning said:

Thank you for clarifying. So to clarify, the V12 has three control boards? One blue, one black, and a "main control board". Adrian had cutouts on the blue and the black control boards, but not on the "main control board." And functional replacements have already been sent out/are being sent out for these blue and black boards. If my understanding so far is correct, then in Adrienne's last post, where he mentioned control boards and motherboards, he was talking about the same boards, and that some people may have to wait a while to get their replacement boards. Is my understanding correct?

Hi there @Staysrunning,

Just to answer your question, the reason my motherboard (main control board) needed to be changed, on the second cutout after the replacement of the driver board, was because it was damaged during the cutout. You can see the burn marks etc attached in my post about the second cutout.

On the third cutout, there was no visible damage to the motherboard.

However, all boards, were sent back to Inmotion per their request.

i. original blue driver board

ii. 1st replacement black driver board (burnt) + original motherboard (burnt)

iii. 2nd replacement black driver board (burnt) + replacement motherboard (no visible damage)

Inmotion is sending out driver boards very quickly to all affected owners/dealers and even sending replacements to units yet unsold so the dealers can replace them prior to sale. Inmotion doesn't yet seem to have stock of motherboards and have not sent a replacement out.

I think I am one of the very few people that have had a cutoff on the new black driver boards, and twice. Other than myself, the replacement boards don't seem to have any issues reported here. I do believe that you will find this wheel very nice to own, I did enjoy my time with it while it was running.

In the meantime, to tide me over, have gotten myself a Begode RS19 HT with a brand new Kenda 262 and an MCM5 v2 (which is fast becoming my favourite wheel). 

[Staysrunning]

13 hours ago, adrianqbs said:

Hi there @Staysrunning,

Just to answer your question, the reason my motherboard (main control board) needed to be changed, on the second cutout after the replacement of the driver board, was because it was damaged during the cutout. You can see the burn marks etc attached in my post about the second cutout.

On the third cutout, there was no visible damage to the motherboard.

However, all boards, were sent back to Inmotion per their request.

i. original blue driver board

ii. 1st replacement black driver board (burnt) + original motherboard (burnt)

iii. 2nd replacement black driver board (burnt) + replacement motherboard (no visible damage)

Inmotion is sending out driver boards very quickly to all affected owners/dealers and even sending replacements to units yet unsold so the dealers can replace them prior to sale. Inmotion doesn't yet seem to have stock of motherboards and have not sent a replacement out.

I think I am one of the very few people that have had a cutoff on the new black driver boards, and twice. Other than myself, the replacement boards don't seem to have any issues reported here. I do believe that you will find this wheel very nice to own, I did enjoy my time with it while it was running.

In the meantime, to tide me over, have gotten myself a Begode RS19 HT with a brand new Kenda 262 and an MCM5 v2 (which is fast becoming my favourite wheel). 

Thanks Adrian and all others for your input. I ended up taking a deal on a Begode EX that was not significantly more expensive than the V12 I was looking at. In the future, I hope inmotion makes a suspension 16" wheel like the V12 HT. 

[James M]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you know and confirm that the V12HS even with the updated board cuts out. I drive extremely modestly on commuter mode not going faster than 30 kph and I just ate it. To make matters worse, it was at 92% battery. There is a one second beep and then it completely cut out. I have the English language pack added so I would have expected more all of a sudden. I was just on the ground. If you guys think this is a safe wheel, you guys are out of your mind. While many of us want to believe that this is a safe wheel, we are simply lying to ourselves with all of the strong data suggesting that it's not even with the updated board. I don't know about you but I work for a living and if I'm in a wheelchair or hospital I won't be able to provide for my family. This wheel has absolutely turned me off. This is really frustrating as just earlier today I bought a seat and some new pedals and and the type of person who follows all of the guys on YouTube and gets excited every time there's a new video out. I'm extremely disappointed that this happened and I just want to warn you all that even with an updated board, it doesn't mean a thing. If you guys have any questions at all, please feel free to ask.

[Tawpie]

Oh man, that's really bad news. Hopefully you weren't badly injured?

Understandably it will be a while until confidence riding a wheel can be restored—they're not supposed to just drop you like that. Thank you for the reminder that this is an inherently unsafe activity and that bad things can happen. We all need to ride with that in mind.