Quackery

[Paul A]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/lucknow-news/uttar-pradesh-allows-weddings-other-events-to-be-held-in-open-spaces-101632834489071.html

Hindustan Times

September 28, 2021

 

Furthermore, Uttar Pradesh also leads in the nationwide vaccination drive, having inoculated Covid-19 shots to 10,39,43,392 beneficiaries till 7am on Tuesday. Notably, India on Monday achieved the feat of vaccinating more than 1 crore people for a record fifth time in a month.

 

Uttar Pradesh is the first state to have crossed the cumulative vaccination coverage of 10-crore-mark, with over 50% of its population jabbed with at least the first dose of Covid-19 vaccine.

 

*A crore denotes ten million in the South Asian numbering system.

[KiwiMark]

6 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You are also not free to withdrawl from society. Even on ShanesPlanet, I am forced to pay taxes on things I will never and have never used. 

If you earn any income then you have NOT withdrawn from society.  The very notion of money requires society.  It sounds like you want to be part of society, but not have any societal obligations.  You also seem to think that you have rights to use services, but not be under any conditions that you don't personally agree with.

I live in a country where certain things are protected.  You can't be discriminated against on the grounds of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or gender identification - but the law doesn't say anything about protecting people from being discriminated against on the grounds of vaccination status.  What this means is that the Government has no right to step in if a private individual or a company refuses service to anyone that can't (or won't) prove they are vaccinated.  The Government can't make a restaurant provide service to unvaccinated people, for example.

There is no issue with medical privacy.  You can show proof of vaccination status and be allowed entry or you can choose not to and go away.

[RockyTop]

 Property tax…. You can’t opt out. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by RockyTop

[Planemo]

8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I am forced to pay taxes on things I will never and have never used.

Part and parcel of being in a 'society'. I have no problems with off-gridders or those who choose a nomadic/tribal lifestyle, but in doing so you should be 100% alone to fend for yourself. That means no taxes etc but it also means no healthcare, unemployment benefits, food tokens or any number of other handouts that being in a society gets them. The problem with the system as I see it is that too many people expect, want (and get) services/money which they rarely, if ever pay into.

It irks me immensely that I have paid £££ in taxes for things I have never used (unemployment benefit for example) but the only option is to totally withdraw myself from society - virtually impossible once you are already in the system. So despite my anger at benefits cheats, and with 2 kids, I would rather the safety net of 'free' healthcare and put up with being just another prole.

8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

How long until walking paths and travel lanes for pedestrians also include a stop and ID/medical check? 

As Draconian as it sounds, I would actually have no problem being forced to show ID on a random basis. An awful lot of scumbags would be caught by doing this. But then I also have no issue with everyone having a DNA sample taken at birth. Hugely controversial I know, but as ex LE I know just how many cases it would solve, and how many potential offences it would prevent, most of them very serious ones. In the same light, I have no issue with my mug being on hundreds of CCTV cameras should I wish to visit London.

I know my views are a bit '1984' and don't expect many to agree with me

[Tawpie]

59 minutes ago, Planemo said:

you should be 100% alone to fend for yourself

this being true, one could feel 'comfortable' buying a wheel from AliExpress.

Something about checking papers and surveillance that gets my panties in a knot is that I consider it beneficial when it's used to identify and 'catch' those I disagree with. But how will I feel when public sentiment turns against me and those like me? Being hunted down for having publicly declared my opinion of an alleycat race in an EUC forum isn't a future I'd welcome. At this time in history, we as a society are feeling for the balance—which is there somewhere between totalitarianism and the wild wild west. I have no idea where balance is, the pendulum will need to keep swinging back and forth between too much and too little before we find "that spot". Just keep the pendulum moving, because the balance point will be moving forever.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tawpie

[Planemo]

12 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

this being true, one could feel 'comfortable' buying a wheel from AliExpress.

TBF, AliExpress requires a credit card, therefore a bank account, which you can only have if in the 'system' (need passport/ID/utility statement etc) so no, unless you go to a vendor with cash notes that you got from your cash-in-hand job then no wheels for you!

12 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Being hunted down for having publicly declared my opinion of an alleycat race in an EUC forum isn't a future I'd welcome.

Having an opinion on an alleycat race isn't a criminal offence so you have no worries

 

[Tawpie]

43 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Having an opinion on an alleycat race isn't a criminal offence so you have no worries

Phew!

There are places where I'm literally placed under house arrest because my phone had been in the vicinity of a phone that belonged to a person who tested positive for Covid. Or because I crossed the border in an automobile instead of an airplane (this distinction may have gone away by now). Commission of a 'crime' is not a requirement.

And a cursory look at the numbers indicate that this is an effective measure.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tawpie

[.....]

4 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

If you earn any income then you have NOT withdrawn from society.  The very notion of money requires society.  It sounds like you want to be part of society, but not have any societal obligations.  You also seem to think that you have rights to use services, but not be under any conditions that you don't personally agree with.

I live in a country where certain things are protected.  You can't be discriminated against on the grounds of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or gender identification - but the law doesn't say anything about protecting people from being discriminated against on the grounds of vaccination status.  What this means is that the Government has no right to step in if a private individual or a company refuses service to anyone that can't (or won't) prove they are vaccinated.  The Government can't make a restaurant provide service to unvaccinated people, for example.

There is no issue with medical privacy.  You can show proof of vaccination status and be allowed entry or you can choose not to and go away.

So race, gender, sexual oreintation and others are NOT okay to discriminate against, but vax status is? So who gets to decide and why? How come my freedom as a business owner, doesnt include refusal of service to gays and people with disabiIities? am aware of societal obligations, I just get very nervous when the obligations keep increasing but my use of them does not. I pay lots of taxes and have yet to use a single dollar of handouts or welfare or ANY other public funded health systems. In fact, Im watching my tax money be given away as reward for not working. Yeah, it irks me a bit, but I still pay them.

Maybe YOU don't see any issue with medical privacy, that doesnt mean there isnt one. Having to prove if you've been sick or vaccinated IS a privacy concern for some. Notice, I havent mentioned my personal medical status even once. Im betting everyone assumes I havent been vaccinated, as soon as I mention I dont trust the system or the forcing of it.

Don't worry, it will eventually come to light that everyone is being forced to do what the govt decides, everyone will be watched everywhere. Everyone will be awarded a points system and there will only be the rich and poor. Hell, who needs personal freedom at all? Catching crooks and maybe delaying death is worth giving up EVERYTHING isnt it? Next up, cholesterol cards, diabetic cards, forced diets and workout. You know, becuase everyone else's health is my problem, since we all pay into a health care system. Maybe we should have the right to simply eliminate EVERYONE who has been sick or is sick, as it COULD endanger those that arent. Who do we trust to watch us? Who watches the people watching us? Careful of giving out excessive power to control humans, to humans.  I havent had covid yet, I think all of those that have, are endangering me and need be tossed out to an island somewhere. You know, just to be safe.

I've said enough I'm sure. I can be deemed a 'quack', I'm okay with that. Its obvious that I prefer rights over protection. Its also obvious that Im in the minority. Too bad for me, I'll eventually find myself in a society that watches everything I do and judges me accordingly. Here's the kicker... in the end, we all end up returning to dust no matter how much we fear it or try not to. Human life is only as important as the quality of it imho.

I'm off to go endanger myself on a bedsheet plane. Watch for falling objects as YES, the public is endangered a tiny bit from my activities. Hmm, kinda like how it endangers people when we drive cars or ride an euc. Who knows, maybe i wont make it to the airport, as cell phone drivers are still common and they pose a serious health concern. Resistance is futile, you will be assimillated. You know, for the greater good and all.

Edited October 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Planemo]

8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

So race, gender, sexual oreintation and others are NOT okay to discriminate against, but vax status is?

The difference is that theres no risk (nor choice if I'm honest) to others involved in the former, there is with the latter. If one chooses not to get vaxxed, one has to accept that you may not get invited or welcomed. All the anti-vaxxers kicking up a fuss about being discriminated against all seem to forget that it is not a given right to enter an airplane/shop/club etc. You are there by implied invitation and the owners hold the cards as to who they want there. Presumably because they would consider you a 'risk', just as someone holding a hammer might be. 

8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Having to prove if you've been sick or vaccinated IS a privacy concern for some.

No one is saying you have to prove it, you can choose whether to do so. But as above, your invitation may be declined if you don't.

8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Catching crooks and maybe delaying death is worth giving up EVERYTHING isnt it?

I wouldn't say having to have certain vaccinations to get into certain places and a random ID check every now and then is the same as 'giving up everything' IMO.

8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its obvious that I prefer rights over protection.

Then I will refer you to my previous post - you can have all the rights you want if you wish to live tribally in the confines of like-minded individuals. Once you enter the larger society, certain rights have to be withdrawn - such as riding an EUC at 40mph on the pavement etc etc. As quack as you are Shane, I am sure you could see the utter mayhem we would be in without any rules in our bigger societies.

8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its also obvious that Im in the minority.

I don't think you are tbh. Theres a lot of people out there who have the same views as yourself. In any event, whether you are vaxxed or not, I would still have a beer with you 

One question - do you think it's fair that care home workers/surgeons are required to have Covid vaccinations?

[The Brahan Seer]

33 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

So race, gender, sexual oreintation and others are NOT okay to discriminate against, but vax status is? So who gets to decide and why?

It probably comes down to how much risk is associated with each, race gender etc has no risk to you or anyone else but vaccine status might.

35 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 I pay lots of taxes and have yet to use a single dollar of handouts or welfare or ANY other public funded health systems. In fact, Im watching my tax money be given away as reward for not working. Yeah, it irks me a bit, but I still pay them.

 

You are one of the rare ones, most people/companies in the UK has taken furlough or had government assistance during the pandemic. 

 

38 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 

Maybe YOU don't see any issue with medical privacy, that doesnt mean there isnt one. Having to prove if you've been sick or vaccinated IS a privacy concern for some. Notice, I havent mentioned my personal medical status even once. Im betting everyone assumes I havent been vaccinated, as soon as I mention I dont trust the system or the forcing of it.

 

At the moment I don't agree with mandatory vaccinations but if the virus was say as deadly as MERS or Ebola eg 20% death rate my opinion might change. Then again maybe antivaxers would suddenly see the light.

 

41 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 

I've said enough I'm sure. I can be deemed a 'quack', I'm okay with that. Its obvious that I prefer rights over protection. Its also obvious that Im in the minority. Too bad for me, I'll eventually find myself in a society that watches everything I do and judges me accordingly. Here's the kicker... in the end, we all end up returning to dust no matter how much we fear it or try not to. Human life is only as important as the quality of it imho.

 

Its good to question and look at the big picture, and having different viewpoints is what makes us all human and makes life interesting. Some of us will live longer than others but ultimately none of us is getting out of here alive. I enjoy your viewpoints. Keep safe.

[Freeforester]

It would be most illuminating to determine just how many of those vaccinated go on to have the delta variant (eg in Israel it is reckoned that close to 40% of cases by now are among those double vaccinated, which suggests the benefit of the vaccine in terms of protection against catching the virus is somewhat overstated), the variant type which is accepted now as being the preeminent viral type worldwide, and in many places more or less the only variant at play; this might give some pause to consider the relative worth of said vaccines, given that the delta variant is at once both the most prevalent and infectious variant.      It is interesting to note therefore, that in Uttar Pradesh there is somehow either a) little to no post-vaccination infection, quite unlike the experience of most other countries around the world, or b) that the use of ivermectin as a most effective preventative means of viral reproduction is the main determining factor in its elimination from said land.    Given that the vaccines are not antiviral per se, in that they do not prevent either reinfection nor (according to the reports) reduce the viral load in those who get infected despite being vaccinated, and the experiences of most other countries worldwide where post-vaccinated populations nonetheless go on to become infected/reinfected at significant levels, it appears clear to my mind where the relative ‘benefits’ of either treatment lie relative to one another, though of course views may and indeed do vary…

Edited October 4, 2021 by Freeforester

[Paul A]

Uttar Pradesh has been highly vaccinated, see previous posts.

Ivermectin is not the reason why Uttar Pradesh has been succeeding in its fight against Covid.

Claims of Israel 40% cases among double vaccinated need to be fact checked.

[Paul A]

Every Covid patient that has required ICU was un-vaccinated.

Not one vaccinated person has required ICU.

 

Video uploaded Oct 3, 2021.

 

 

[Freeforester]

I note they are some way behind US levels of vaccination by population.

For every unvaccinated person who has died in the last six months over here in the UK, five deaths among doubly vaccinated people occurred (Government technical paper released here, link back up the thread), though for every vaccinated person reaching ICU, three unvaccinated were also admitted.

 

08:10:

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Freeforester
Additional information

[Paul A]

Professor Tim Spector is a credible expert on Covid.

He is a Professor of Epidemiology, with an OBE awarded in 2020 for services to the Covid response.

He is stating that UK were vaccinating the population earlier than other countries.

Even double vaccinated people are liable to be infected as vaccine protection wanes over time.

Booster shots may be required to maintain efficacy.

 

"For every unvaccinated person who has died in the last six months over here in the UK, five deaths among doubly vaccinated people occurred (Government technical paper released here, link back up the thread), though for every vaccinated person reaching ICU, three unvaccinated were also admitted. "

Claims need to be fact checked, citing sources, citing evidence.

____________________________

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00460-6/fulltext

British medical journal "The Lancet".

September 1, 2021

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study

____________________________

[Paul A]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext

 

British medical journal "The Lancet".

October 4, 2021.

Effectiveness of mRNA BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine up to 6 months in a large integrated health system in the USA: a retrospective cohort study

*The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

It follows 3.4 million people who have been fully vaccinated with Pfizer’s jab.

The biggest data source comes from Israel, which began its mass vaccination campaign with Pfizer in December 2020.

 

[mrelwood]

On 10/4/2021 at 9:17 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

I am forced to pay taxes on things I will never and have never used.

Paying taxes is different from donations in that the payer doesn’t get to choose how the money is spent. I think this is the only possible way to have a functioning and (somewhat) fair society.

 If people would only pay taxes for the services they use themselves, disabled people would be fucked. People with mental disorders (including work exhaustion and depression) would be fucked. The list is never ending.

 You take part in society, you pay taxes to the government. They decide what is the best way to distribute the funds. There is simply no other way.

On 10/4/2021 at 9:17 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

Airlines have used govt money many times in the past, so doesnt that constitute some kind of rights to patron as a tax payer?

No it doesn’t. The US makes trade with Finland for electronic products, minerals etc. How much of them do you own by paying taxes to the US?

But I fully agree with you about medical privacy and that discriminating due to not taking a vaccine that has notable common side effects and is only partially effective, is not something that should be possible in our society.

I was on my way to a movie with friends, but they wouldn’t let me in because I’m too tall by .5 inches. On my way home alone I tried to grab something to eat, but they wouldn’t serve me because they have a health conscious BMI limit of 27. I tried to shop away my frustration by buying new elbow pads for riding, but they didn’t sell to people walking with only flip flops. I also tried to buy vitamin C from a health food store, but they wouldn’t sell to people wearing a leather jacket, despite buying mine 2nd hand 20 years ago probably makes it the most organic piece of garment that the shop had seen that week. I went home empty handed to watch Netflix, but they had cancelled my subscription because they had found out that back in 2021 I took the covid vaccine later than average, and deemed me an anarchist.

 Is that something we’re allowing to happen in 10, 20, 50 years? If not, why? And more importantly: How do we prevent it?

[Freeforester]

Apropos death rates:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf

The table is on on pages 18/19

[Paul A]

Professor Tim Spector has outlined the concerns of waning efficacy of the vaccines,

the continuing studies monitoring vaccine efficacy,

the continuing study on the longevity and strength of protection between differing vaccines,

the international comparisons of differing restrictions/control/compliance strategies of social distancing, mask wearing, attitudes, commencement dates of vaccine roll outs etc.

 

Dr John Campbell is a quack. 

Am not going to entertain any analysis/interpretation of data from him.

 

Suggest Professor Tim Spector, recognized scientific/academic journals, and other credible authorities should be the source of medical information.

[Freeforester]

I’m sure the Indians know of neither. Still, good news that they’ve got the virus quacked on the back foot…

[Paul A]

Yes, very good news that Uttar Pradesh seems to be succeeding against Covid because of their incredible vaccination uptake.

Cannot get complacent as there are still threats of waning efficacy, possible emerging strains, poor countries still not vaccinated, misinformation, anti vax hesitancy, fatigue of other necessary ongoing restrictions etc.

Still a very fluid and dynamic pandemic with many variables playing out over time.

[Freeforester]

An uptake of 90million, out of a population of 200 million, so around 45% of the total population. To be clear.

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Dr John Campbell is a quack. 

Am not going to entertain any analysis/interpretation of data from him.

 

Suggest Professor Tim Spector, recognized scientific/academic journals, and other credible authorities should be the source of medical information.

Well considering Tim Spector has been on Dr John's channel I don't think he thinks he's a quack.

Dr John Campbell has been educating everyone using experts to give their advice. I suggest you check out his earlier vlogs especially at the start when he was telling everyone to take this pandemic seriously back in Feb 2020. He does not pretend to be a Doctor of Medicine but he has a Doctorate in teaching nurses which lends very well to informing the general public about what the medical profession is saying. Yes sometimes he makes mistakes and he clearly corrects himself when this occurs. He has also published two books which you can get for free if you want to check that out. I would give him another go, his information is from peer reviewed data mostly and he always gives the links and advises for you to check it out and review it yourself. A quack he certainly isn't.

[Paul A]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/covid-caseload-in-31-up-districts-falls-to-zero/articleshow/86741028.cms

The Times of India

October 4, 2021.

UP (Uttar Pradesh) is also close to administering 11 crore vaccine doses, leading the country's vaccination drive on a war footing.

*A crore denotes ten million in the South Asian numbering system.

ie:  approximately 110 million thus far.

______________

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/lucknow-news/33-districts-in-uttar-pradesh-are-now-covid-free-state-govt-101631267966925.html

Hindustan Times

September 10, 2021

The vaccination coverage in the state has exceeded 8.47 crores, out of which, 12 lakh people have been inoculated in the last 2 hours.

*A lakh is a unit in the Indian numbering system equal to one hundred thousand.

ie:  approximately 1.2 million in two hours.........10k per minute.......not sure how they do it, hope it is accurate reporting.....

 

[Paul A]

Have detailed in previous posts reasons of why Dr John Campbell is a quack.

If his misinformation are genuine mistakes, it is further reasons to disregard him as a credible source of medical information on Covid.

He is not qualified in the subject matter, his disclaimer clearly states that.

 

Not going to furthermore entertain his musings, continuously fact checking/debunking his credibility, it is too time consuming.

Rely on credible sources.