EVolution EV "EVO" - The "Made in USA" EUC!

[Tawpie]

I think it’s a “gentleman’s“ design. Not for skate parks. Not for gnarly single track. Not for whitelining traffic downtown. Not for passing the train. It’s for a leisurely Sunday afternoon cruise on the grounds of the country estate. 8000USD. And I’d like to try it! But mostly because I want a fat tire EUC so I can ride guilt free on groomed fat tire bike trails in the snow. Too bad I won’t be able to afford it.

[shellac]

Speaking for myself, I care more about build quality than country of origin per se. I'd be willing to pay a premium for a wheel if they matched or exceeded say Ninebot or Veteran quality. It could be assembled in Greenland for all I care.

I'd agree with @houseofjob that being gung ho about the "made in USA" is a bit of a red flag, as it seems to ignore the realities of the supply chain (though I don't agree with his characterization of the quality of Chinese manufacturing--at least not as being some inherent property unique to China). Also a hard agree with the sentiment about Shane Chen and Inventist or whatever being ready with lawsuits, though I would think they'd try to wait for the wheel to be somewhat successful before going after it. I don't think it benefits them to try to kill the baby in the cradle.

I've said it before, but the Intellectual Property laws in the US are a clusterfuck. It would be nice if we had a Johnny Cochran on an EUC that we could help crowdfund to overturn some of the BS EUC patents, based on prior art. Sort of a community effort to help clear the legal stage for more EUC competition.

[WI_Hedgehog]

Circuit boards beyond 48V are increasingly difficult to make, 84V is probably a realistic goal. 

The US is great at using Open Source code, maybe he figured it out. Making the parts for it though, that's a tough one. 

I can't see a US company getting liability insurance for making wheels, this will most likely be a near impossible hurdle, affording it would be the next. 

[Tawpie]

31 minutes ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

Circuit boards beyond 48V are increasingly difficult to make,

Not really so difficult, just mind your spacing. Used to design boards with a cap that charged to 2kV (from Li primary and later from rechargeables), then did a shaped current discharge at about 80A peak. Standard multilayer FR-4 process.

But new board designs were run inside a blast box until proven that there were no oops’s. Even then we cowered behind heavy, solid things just in case.

[WI_Hedgehog]

I think you're making my point for me... LOL 

There are other considerations with induced current and different voltages/frequencies (noise, harmonics), voltage spikes, feedback, environmental conditions, heat dissipation, etc. 

[houseofjob]

11 hours ago, shellac said:

Also a hard agree with the sentiment about Shane Chen and Inventist or whatever being ready with lawsuits, though I would think they'd try to wait for the wheel to be somewhat successful before going after it. I don't think it benefits them to try to kill the baby in the cradle.

Yup, which is what they will wait and do. AFAIK there hasn’t been a successful EUC US outlet that hasn’t been sued and/or settled.

Same goes for all IP trolling, as in my field of music, copyright lawsuits also only come when there is enough blood money in the waters.

 

11 hours ago, shellac said:

I've said it before, but the Intellectual Property laws in the US are a clusterfuck.

Yup, hence no US EUC companies since the mother of all EUC patent trolls Shane Chen set up shop here.

 

11 hours ago, shellac said:

(though I don't agree with his characterization of the quality of Chinese manufacturing--at least not as being some inherent property unique to China).

Then you don’t know China. Even the Chinese who aren’t CCP shills will tell you this.

China is great at manufacturing and manufacturing quickly, but if there is no accountability, they will half ass it, there is even a common term for it, Chàbùduō 差不多, which I’ve said already.

It’s decades of culture that allows and almost encourages rampant bribery, social mobility only through who you know who can hook you up and not just merit (guanxi 关系), which ultimately resigns the non-connected non-privileged public to act for just themselves rather than a common good / ethic / pride. 

The smarter companies manufacturing in China (Uniqlo, even Chinese company DJI, etc) are pumping out good quality because they have their own people on the ground ensuring quality, this is commonly known and the reason why early companies will plant one of their people to live in China for the first couple of years at least to monitor the manufacturing.

Edited April 12, 2021 by houseofjob

[Planemo]

13 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I think it’s a “gentleman’s“ design. 

Good grief, I think you're right. I can just imagine a whole army of hipsters cruising along on this, desperately trying not to get their skinny jeans and pointy shoes dirty. I wonder how they will cope with flies in their beautifully manicured beards and shapely bouffants (no helmets obvs).

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

China is great at manufacturing and manufacturing quickly, but if there is no accountability, they will half ass it, there is even a common term for it, Chàbùduō 差不多, which I’ve said already.

It’s decades of culture that allows and almost encourages rampant bribery, social mobility only through who you know who can hook you up and not just merit (guanxi 关系), which ultimately resigns the non-connected non-privileged public to act for just themselves rather than a common good / ethic / pride. 

LOL, someone on the site will jump at you for posting this, claiming it will make them uncomfortable with it's undertones of racism.

(which it isn't of course, and I agree with you)

[meepmeepmayer]

It may very well be that @houseofjob digs out this topic in a year or two and tells us all a big "Told you so!".

For now I'll put my rose colored classes on and wait for the prototype. Soon...

[shellac]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Then you don’t know China. Even the Chinese who aren’t CCP shills will tell you this.

China is great at manufacturing and manufacturing quickly, but if there is no accountability, they will half ass it, there is even a common term for it, Chàbùduō 差不多, which I’ve said already.

It’s decades of culture that allows and almost encourages rampant bribery, social mobility only through who you know who can hook you up and not just merit (guanxi 关系), which ultimately resigns the non-connected non-privileged public to act for just themselves rather than a common good / ethic / pride. 

The smarter companies manufacturing in China (Uniqlo, even Chinese company DJI, etc) are pumping out good quality because they have their own people on the ground ensuring quality, this is commonly known and the reason why early companies will plant one of their people to live in China for the first couple of years at least to monitor the manufacturing.

I don’t doubt it’s a thing, just that it’s not something unique to China. It’s called halfassing it in the US. Aussie equivalent is “she’ll be right mate”. What you’re describing is an inherent part of capitalism. You’ll naturally cut corners to make more money until you can’t anymore, and sometimes you overdo it.

There’s not a country in the world where you can set up a factory and not worry about it, and expect quality products to come out. You always need your guys on the ground carefully watching things, whether the factory is in India, Mexico, or CA. Hell I have a Tesla Model 3 and looks like whoever put it together in Fremont had Chabuduo mindset. The chrome trim on the doors were all misaligned when I got it, and perusing Tesla forums show this is a common problem. (Tesla fixed it for free.)

Nepotism and cronyism isn’t a uniquely Chinese characteristic either. We all know that sort of thing happens here as well. In the South it’s called the good old boy network. But is China less of a meritocracy than the US? I’m not sure of the answer to that, but there are plenty of examples like Jack Ma who made their way up and didn’t have any connections. 

To @Planemo’s point, I’m not accusing anyone here of being racist, though plenty of such racists abound. This is just a disagreement. 

[WI_Hedgehog]

6 minutes ago, Planemo said:

LOL, someone on the site will jump at you for posting this, claiming it will make them uncomfortable with it's undertones of racism.

(which it isn't of course, and I agree with you)

No, no, that doesn't happen...

Oops, it happened again...

Brian has quite a few advantages:

• High-voltage circuits should follow IEEE, CE, RoHS, ISO, ASTM, and CCC standards, which some Gotway boards clearly did not (spacing requirements in particular, referencing @Tawpie's post). Spacing, board material type and thickness, copper trace thickness, layer topology, and solder-blob avoidance also come into play (Gotway blobs...  ). In theory Brian has a strong advantage regarding circuit design (we're pretty good at it).
• Brian's design seems to avoid patent (now owned by Gotway) infringement the same way Veteran does. (Win!)
• To answer a previous question, spokes can handle incredible abuse, off-road and stunt bikes usually have spoked wheels. (Smart!)
• I think it's smart to have Adam/WrongWay promo the wheel since he has the equipment & experience to put together a good video (verses Brian trying to create and edit his own video). Plus someone objective is doing the review. (Smart!)
• Brian has a Facebook page though not an actual website, which might be a blessing at this stage.
• It's not Brian's first EUC attempt--that's good.

A lot of things look positive.

However, even if Brian gets business insurance (required in the US), his production schedule (testing finished Summer of 2021, production manufacturing Fall 2021) seems unrealistic. He would have to set up his assembly facility (already in the works) and hire staff by then, have a business license, employee payroll/insurances/tax deductions...though he may already own a business and intends to ship a limited number of units until he's successful? Don't know.

Evolution EV is a product by DOMUSA TEKNIK PRODUCTS, but that can be worked around since an oil boiler is a dissimilar product.

Hopefully Brian makes it happen, then he can be bought out by the Chinese and be rich!

[shellac]

14 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

I can't see a US company getting liability insurance for making wheels, this will most likely be a near impossible hurdle

Why is that? Is it different from getting insurance for making say, electric scooters or motorcycles?

[houseofjob]

53 minutes ago, shellac said:

But is China less of a meritocracy than the US? I’m not sure of the answer to that, but there are plenty of examples like Jack Ma who made their way up and didn’t have any connections. 

To @Planemo’s point, I’m not accusing anyone here of being racist, though plenty of such racists abound. This is just a disagreement. 

LOL, don't kid yourself, Jack Ma made his way up through connecting with CCP officials in a government that blocks foreign competition after they strip foreign company IP, and they took him down when he got big as well, same story has happened so many times already if you are in tune with China news.

Yes, all you say about the west is true, but the Chinese version is not for the same reasons, and it is clear to me you don't understand China, which is unfortunately still a huge problem today: Westerners only seeing what they want to see and superimposing their own home values in a place where that simply does not apply.

Only way you'll fully understand is if you speak the language and live it, unfortunately, so no point in arguing this further. Why do I know this? Because I was in your same exact shoes making the same incorrect assumptions before I went over there and lived there. I used to say exactly the same things like "it's the same all over like the US", but being told by the natives there that have truly experienced both sides of the world that it is not. After having lived there, I no longer say this. Anyone that has lived and breathed the culture of a totally different country than their own knows this fully.

Edited April 12, 2021 by houseofjob

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

LOL, someone on the site will jump at you for posting this, claiming it will make them uncomfortable with it's undertones of racism.

(which it isn't of course, and I agree with you)

LOL yes, because Asians being "racist" towards Asians is.... "racist"(?) 

If only people did the homework in staying informed, experiencing the people directly, and not just blindly trusting foreign media (that also don't do their homework), and making assumptions only based on their own worlds without truly having lived elsewhere (language+work+life+etc) *sigh*

Edited April 12, 2021 by houseofjob

[WI_Hedgehog]

Just now, shellac said:

Why is that? Is it different from getting insurance for making say, electric scooters or motorcycles?

The liability risk is so high due to the difficulty of product usage the category might change from Consumer to Extreme Risk. (As an example I look at how many experienced people here have crashed and had major surgery despite being experienced, cautious, and wearing protective gear.) Marketing a product where injury is expected walks right into the Exclusions clause, so....no coverage. That's speculation, so don't put too much weight on it.

To address one of @houseofjob's comments, I don't speak Mandarin nor live in China, but do enough business with Chinese companies to know many of the ins & outs he's experienced, because I accept they have a culture different from my own, and respect those differences.

 

[Simply_Striking]

15 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

Circuit boards beyond 48V are increasingly difficult to make, 84V is probably a realistic goal. 

The US is great at using Open Source code, maybe he figured it out. Making the parts for it though, that's a tough one. 

I can't see a US company getting liability insurance for making wheels, this will most likely be a near impossible hurdle, affording it would be the next. 

I see it already, some buys this. Falls breaks something, next thing you knwo he is going to be suing the manufacturer for unsafe product or something of the sort..... insurance agencies are into for the money, not the customers. 

[EUC Sharkman]

I like some of the design aspects proposed in this wheel, like having some mods commonly standard, i.e. spiked pedals, well designed power pads, riding seat built in, steel rollbar. That wide tire with the spokes is pretty cool too.

 

Whether or not this wheel comes out, I'd love to see some of these show up in future wheels. I'm still a relative newcomer to EUCs, but I'm looking forward to more companies and possibly countries drive some cool new designs. The advancements in the past couple years have been pretty cool to read up on (Sherman, suspension wheels, Monster Pro etc.) and I feel like it's going to just keep picking up in diversity.

[Fuerte]

I agree with most in thinking that it might never happen, but if it does I certainly hope the price is not SOOO out of line so I could make a rational decision to buy one. I am sure it will be over $4,000, but too much more would make it too expensive for normal folks...we shall see.

[Nostris]

It looks way too big and heavy for my taste. Also, I am never convinced when the designer / builder says that the most important thing is the style / look. This is a very major no no for me...IMO, form should always follow function. Designing something that looks cool, and then trying to make it work afterwards, never works out well. 

[EUC Addict]

Meet the new kid on the block

If successfully brought to market, the EVO will be the first American made electric unicycle. Bryan Crumrine talks to EUC Addict and shares some interesting new details about his new EUC. (Read more)

 

[Flying W]

I hope he pulls it off too @EUC Addict.....though if he does and it starts making money expect a legal battle to ruin the innovation again. Shouldn't the original patent be expiring soon? 

[EUC Addict]

49 minutes ago, Flying W said:

I hope he pulls it off too @EUC Addict.....though if he does and it starts making money expect a legal battle to ruin the innovation again. Shouldn't the original patent be expiring soon? 

I don't think it expires till around 2035. I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

[Flying W]

Oh damn, then they should do a licensing agreement so we can have more choices. I'd be willing to bet the patent holder doesn't even ride these contraptions. 

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, EUC Addict said:

Meet the new kid on the block

If successfully brought to market, the EVO will be the first American made electric unicycle. Bryan Crumrine talks to EUC Addict and shares some interesting new details about his new EUC. (Read more)

Brilliant! Actual EUC journalism where you contacted the guy! 

So it's 84V because the parts he wants to use are 100V (less than 100.8V) and he wants a margin. Aren't there equivalent ~120V parts or something?

The cells are used for their higher amp rating. Not sure if this is needed due to the big tire diameter, or is a bad decision. You should think 10p is enough amps - 100A continuous with the usual cells.

[EUC Addict]

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

So it's 84V because the parts he wants to use are 100V

He's doing this for cooling purposes. However, I'm not sure that's really necessary. All I know is an 84v battery goes fast at higher speeds. I rode with a modded Monster v1 that had a 4000Wh battery and it could barely hang with the Monster Pro.