EVolution EV "EVO" - The "Made in USA" EUC!

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

Let's discuss and speculate about the EVolution EV "EVO" USA made EUC! 

Great video by Adam / WrongWay:

My main thoughts are:

It's a 84v wheel with a 100v controller, maybe 84v means nominal? 

How puncture resistant 20x4.0 in fat ebike tires are (22.5in outside diameter), usually not very puncture resistant, definitely not as much as current EUC tires. 

Spokes, could they break? I guess they will be thick enough. 

Retail price in Europe, taking into account logistics cost for materials, some probably from China, to US + labour cost + logistics from US to Europe + Duty/VAT taxes (which many Chinese EUCs imports to EU avoid, somehow). I expect it to be a lot more expensive than Chinese made EUCs

Other than those doubts, looks very promising and exciting! 

Looking forward to read your thoughts

Edited April 10, 2021 by Jean eRide.ie Community

[MKO]

Yeah seems exciting, but will probably be pretty "boutique", definitely not something I'll be able to afford anyway . But here's to hoping the Chinese will take some design cues and bump up the quality on their products as well

[Tasku]

Good news. Hopefully production picks up without problems. By fall, this sortage of material and shipping containers could be over. The new Harley davidson in the making. A baller wheel 

[meepmeepmayer]

Sounds very ambitious.

Not sure if it's ugly or cool looking.

I hope it's not loud like all ebike motors seem to be.

2160Wh with 200 cells comes out to 3000mAh cells at 3.6V. Not sure why you would do that. Could be 2520Wh with 3500mAh cells. They are rated for 15A though instead of the usual 10, but who needs that with a 10p system?

[GoGeorgeGo]

Love the premium part philosophy. I am afraid of what costs will be as an US built product but excited to see it indeed. 600lb weight limit is crazy.

I really like the rim choice as well, paving the way for me to put chrome spinners on my whip 😎

Edited April 10, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[GothamMike]

3 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Love the premium part philosophy. I am afraid of what costs will be as an US built product but excited to see it indeed. 600lb weight limit is crazy.

I really like the rim choice as well, paving the way for me to put chrome spinners on my whip 😎

Since so many of insist on jumping curbs and piles of dirt, 600 lbs is a necessity.  
 

Hidden power switch? Smart!  Helmet lock? GPS? (Anti theft). Internet based kill switch. Firmware upgrades via patches.
 

Americans want CHROME, lots of Chrome! And no Mufflers! 

[Rawnei]

I'm surprised it doesn't run on gasoline 😂 I kid I kid but shame it's not 100v looks nice!

[xiiijojjo]

It probably won't be long before we all see the step up from 100v so going down to 84v now is a bigger deal than it seems as this wheel, by the time it will be available, will probably have to compete with >100v wheels.
Sure if you have 100v wheels today you may consider having a single 84v wheel for whatever reason, but i don't suspect a lot of people with 100v wheels are seriously looking to buy 67v wheels in 2021, which represent going back 2 generational steps in voltage in eucs. 

Also if you want to make such a big deal out of appealing to "people of American weight" providing the biggest voltage motor is a nobrainer to me.

Regardless of 84v this wheel will sell just because of it being american and the higher than normal weight rating. It will be interesting to see if the brand will have any staying power in the market.

[mrelwood]

30 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

It probably won't be long before we all see the step up from 100v

I believe it will be. First 100V wheels were introduced I think in late 2018 or early 2019. That’s just two years ago. So far only GW and it’s child Veteran have even had 100V wheels available, Inmotion being the first separate manufacturer to follow with the V12 that’s expected to launch this summer. 84V wheels are still very current for some while forward.

 Another point is that while a 100V system does have other gains as well, having a monstrous 22.5” tire the motor doesn’t even need to spin very fast to achieve 70km/h speeds. It’s very different for 16x3.0” wheels.

If the Nik+ speeds are not enough, people know very well to go for a 18” 100V wheel. And if those speeds are not enough, one is definitely in a wrong vehicle category altogether. So going up from 100V doesn’t really seem to even serve anyone at the moment.

 And if the EVO succeeds in the planned late 2021 launch, how many new GW wheels do you really expect to have launched before that?

Quote

Sure if you have 100v wheels today you may consider having a single 84v wheel for whatever reason

That comment sounds quite NewYorkCitian, disregarding all current Inmotion and KS EUCs. No matter how it may look from within a single city, I’m pretty sure 84V non-GW/Veteral wheels are what dominate the world at the moment.

Quote

going back 2 generational steps in voltage

Sometimes a parameter can be sufficient though, and doesn’t need to be increased.

Quote

Also if you want to make such a big deal out of appealing to "people of American weight" providing the biggest voltage motor is a nobrainer to me.

I think more than anything, in this case it would serve the common American “the bigger the better” attitude, regardless of being useful or not.

Edited April 11, 2021 by mrelwood

[meepmeepmayer]

12 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

600lb weight limit is crazy.

Seems so, but actually that just means it has an axle that is thick enough. A metal rod that can take 600lbs... is not that thick. Just not too thin.

Same with the rest. His approach basically is "just do it right like you would do it anyways", so beefy components - and the rest follows automatically. No cooling needed (because beefy components don't even get hot), high current ratings, robustness, and so on.

These are basically non-features, but our history with Chinese manufacturers makes it sound like it's something special. So much that I wonder if it is not that easy just to use "proper" electronics etc., and if there really is a reason why the Chinese do the crap they do. But my brain tells me... probably not. They just never did the obvious.

What I'm more "worried" about, in the sense that the guy might underestimate the effort that is needed:

• Firmware. The manufacturers are 5+ years ahead of everyone else regarding firmware. I don't think it's that simple to get nice, robust, safe, not-overly-limiting firmware.
• The motor, which seems to be sourced from "somewhere else" (ebike) instead of being a custom EUC design. 5+ years ahead in motor experience as well. I don't think the manufacturers design their own motors just for fun when they could just use generic parts.
  The motor and the firmware (in combination) might prove to be an obstacle for what can be done.
  Maybe even the 84V is due to the motor, even though motors don't really have a specific voltage? Maybe the motor specs somehow made him go 84V?
• His timeframe obviously, but we can wait. If the result does what is promised, the NYCers alone will make it successful.

Someone tell that guy to go 100V and go for 3500mAh cells (or any cells with max capacity for their format, 5000mAh 21700s, whatever). Maybe he's just not familiar with the EUC market, but there should be zero reason to not do these two no-brainers, right?

[Kurtosis]

IMO it's vaporware until there's a prototype. Even at that point, it's not smooth sailing to production. Everyone's debating how it will sell, I'm not yet convinced it makes it to market.

[MR BRAD]

Well if it makes it (or anything resembling it) to production it seems  as though it would  supplant the Sherman as the ugliest and least maneuverable wheel out there.

[davewood1982]

I seriously hope Vesc technology has improved  a lot from just a couple years ago when i experienced them in Eboards, they were prone to DRV chips blowing & failing, Doesn't exactly fill me with hope considering eucs run a lot higher voltages than eboards..

[Patrick Robert]

21 minutes ago, MR BRAD said:

Sherman as the ugliest and least maneuverable wheel out there.

Ugliest? Most badass for sure! 

Yeah, even Kuji was struggling to control it in his videos... NOT! 

[null]

1 hour ago, MR BRAD said:

Sherman as the ugliest and least maneuverable wheel out there.

[MR BRAD]

I abide.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Kurtosis said:

IMO it's vaporware until there's a prototype. Even at that point, it's not smooth sailing to production. Everyone's debating how it will sell, I'm not yet convinced it makes it to market.

100% agreed.

Right now it seems like "in theory, everything should work" level of progress.

I'm hoping for the best. Maybe it will be an obvious (proper components) and easy build, and the current manufacturers are embarassed and follow suit. Maybe it won't survive contact with reality.

[GoGeorgeGo]

35 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

100% agreed.

Right now it seems like "in theory, everything should work" level of progress.

I'm hoping for the best. Maybe it will be an obvious (proper components) and easy build, and the current manufacturers are embarassed and follow suit. Maybe it won't survive contact with reality.

I think the biggest obstacle they will face by far is going to be price. Being US made and using more expensive parts, i will be very suprised if this is not the most expensive EUC to date. I dont want to overly speculate on price of such a device, but my head says 4k+ easy. 

This will be a great marketing test for the industry though. Is being US made worth extra to consumers? Is having quality parts worth extra to consumers? Or is the slightly lower performance a deal breaker for the 3k+ price range? A very interesting challenger approaching the scene here. If its successful, we could see a whole new wave of wheels come available in the future

[Camenbert]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

my head says 4k+ easy. 

Agreed, it seems they want to create a one wheel Harley, so I bid it will be half the price of the 883 (so precisely $4749).
At that game, Asian usually win, however I will happy if that exist.

[houseofjob]

7 hours ago, Kurtosis said:

IMO it's vaporware until there's a prototype. Even at that point, it's not smooth sailing to production. Everyone's debating how it will sell, I'm not yet convinced it makes it to market.

1,000% this.

Just count all the graves and complaints from ghosted backers on most PEV Kickstarters, sporting flashy marketing vids that still have yet to make it to production after X years.

"Made in USA" is already a huge red flag here IMHO because: a.) anyone who knows the ebike/escooter/EUC parts manufacturing world knows there is essentially no market to source from but China for the bread-and-butter parts; and out-of-sight, out-of-mind, if you don't have a trusted QC guy directly nitpicking in China, they are famous for half-ass-ing, Chàbùduō 差不多, and you can essentially be sent bad parts to be left holding the bag from a half-a-world-away; and b.) whoever still owns the Inventist / Shane Chen patent now (and minor-ly the XiaoMi/Ninebot/Segway patent) is gonna be chomping at the bit as soon as they smell money in US waters, like they've done to every US EUC outlet.

RIP MAX & Sherpa

RIP Pulse Glider

RIP UniWheel UK

RIP IronKOREA

(notice all these failed to setup camp in China)

Edited April 11, 2021 by houseofjob

[mrelwood]

 

4 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

my head says 4k+ easy.

Absolutely. I wouldn’t be surprised at a completely utopian introductory price, that will soon be lowered to 5.5k due to lack of sales.

4 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

This will be a great marketing test for the industry though. Is being US made worth extra to consumers? Is having quality parts worth extra to consumers?

One has to remember though that the sales numbers won’t be telling us that. They will only tell how much an US made wheel with those exact features and looks is worth. A wheel like that wouldn’t be a top seller even if it was priced competitively to GW. Being US made won’t change that.

[.....]

Looks promising. It also looks expensive. I would equate this to one of those expensive Harley Davidsons. Its so damn pretty and expensive that you fear actualy riding it for the inevitable. Fwiw, I don't own any motorcycles that Im scared to drop. I sold my last one before I could and the fear of dropping was the main reason why. Fine line to walk when you own something too nice.

Im really following this to see how it goes. I wonder what legal battles are already a hurdle in the usa pev market? Is there some passing for electronics AND road use? Combined with marketing and taxes and liability, THIS could be a very daunting task. I too am a little curious about the total quality, IF so many parts just HAVE to come from China. I also was expecting a custom built motor. Whew, sounds like I keep explaining why it SHOULD be uber expensive.

@MR BRAD I disagree with your first and wholly agree with your second 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

RIP MAX & Sherpa

RIP Pulse Glider

RIP UniWheel UK

RIP IronKOREA

I don't think this is entirely comparable to the examples you posted (but great work listing them!).

MAX/Sherpa were always just custom builds with existing parts, and never promised to be anything else.

Pulse Glider was always an obvious scam/delusional guy, making empty promises.

UniWheel had shitty specs, and the company/stuff going on behind the scenes always seemed fishy. I don't think their efforts were about selling a EUC. More like fleecing gullible investors or something. I don't think it is a coincidence they failed to sell the thing anywhere. Had it been available on ewheels etc. for the <$1000 price, it might have had some limited success like the i5. But they didn't seriously sell it for some reason! You could barely buy it on their own website. I'm not convinced building the thing in China would have changed much.

Iron Korea... do they sell in Korea? At least it's something.

-

This guy in contrast seems to know (in theory) how he would do it. Whether his ideas are workable or break down in the real world, we'll see (soon, going by his time plan.

-

As for price, Sherman, EX, Monster Pro have shown that enough people will shell out a ton of money for these wheels. It's going to find some buyers at $5000 if only for being the biggest and most motorcycle-like EUC. Well if it ever exists. I don't think it will live or die by being or not being made in Chinese circumstances. There's plenty of other obstacles going from idea to working prototype and production.

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

MAX/Sherpa were always just custom builds with existing parts, and never promised to be anything else.

If you knew more, you wouldn't be saying this, but I'll leave this right here. 

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Pulse Glider was always an obvious scam/delusional guy, making empty promises.

Like all listed, there was the same "wow, a new wheel is coming!" fervor / assumption of release, that all gets forgotten with each actual Real new wheel release from the tried-and-true China EUC producers. (and which I archive in my files and throw back at people later)

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

UniWheel had shitty specs, and the company/stuff going on behind the scenes always seemed fishy. I don't think their efforts were about selling a EUC. More like fleecing gullible investors or something. I don't think it is a coincidence they failed to sell the thing anywhere. Had it been available on ewheels etc. for the <$1000 price, it might have had some limited success like the i5. But they didn't seriously sell it for some reason! You could barely buy it on their own website. I'm not convinced building the thing in China would have changed much.

Gonna leave this alone too, but I believe the product was up on sale for pre-order on their now-defunct website (wish I had screen-grabbed had I known they would ghost).

Maybe @Fred Bonus can tell us more as he went and tried directly at the source (and I thought he had ordered a unit or two(?), although I may be wrong about that)

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Iron Korea... do they sell in Korea? At least it's something.

Super quiet on their Naver cafe blog esp after the supposed July 2020 Korea release, and only the founder guy is the one always talking. There should have been an unsanctioned wheel product page up on AliExpress at least, because they're definitely sourcing from China, but nada.

Plus, no active product page anywhere to be found on the Korean NET, I should know, I'm Korean remember.

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

This guy in contrast seems to know (in theory) how he would do it. Whether his ideas are workable or break down in the real world, we'll see (soon, going by his time plan.

-

As for price, Sherman, EX, Monster Pro have shown that enough people will shell out a ton of money for these wheels. It's going to find some buyers at $5000 if only for being the biggest and most motorcycle-like EUC. Well if it ever exists. I don't think it will live or die by being or not being made in Chinese circumstances. There's plenty of other obstacles going from idea to working prototype and production.

I mean, I hope it does come to fruition, but the past proves this guy might be a little naïve on the business side (which honestly, most are when starting any business the first time).

 

And the point of all this is, super speculative here when like 90% of all these non-major company new PEV crowdfund/sneak-peek never comes to fruition seemingly.

Edited April 11, 2021 by houseofjob

[RetroThruster]

I like it, I'm having thoughts of how to mount a train horn on it like we do in our cars, my buddy has one in his truck and we have major fun with that thing.