Your wheel catches FIRE while charging - what do you do?

[Aztek]

I saw this mentioned in a video of wrong way, so I searched it out:

https://www.elidefire.fr/the-product

Seems like a good addition to the euc containment - an automatic fire extinguisher ball.

[Chriull]

56 minutes ago, Aztek said:

I saw this mentioned in a video of wrong way, so I searched it out:

https://www.elidefire.fr/the-product

Seems like a good addition to the euc containment - an automatic fire extinguisher ball.

"Just think of it as a grenade in reverse - when you throw the Elide Fire Ball into the flames, it creates an explosion that actually puts out a fire." (cited from the link)

As an EUC fire consists of many li ion cells which self ignite with some delay such a ball will be of very limited to no help.

No idea if a li ion fire can be blown out at all as such lithium fires do not need external oxygen for burning. So they could act like the magic candles on a birthday cake igniting themselves again and again...

[The Brahan Seer]

4 hours ago, Chriull said:

no help.

Yes @Mike Sacristan has tested out and has an excellent set of videos showing the ineffectiveness of most of the options tried.

This one shows how the fire extinguisher ball does nothing..

 

[Aztek]

42 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

This one shows how the fire extinguisher ball does nothing..

Not exactly the best demonstration.

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, Aztek said:

Not exactly the best demonstration.

I think one of his later vlogs does a better job; see take 2 or 3. They are all worth checking out if you want to see how different fireproof products perform.

[woke rider]

My plan is to buy a fire blanket, they are like $12 on Amazon, my fire dept. might just give me one if I ask. So I will wrap my EUC in the blanket when charging or if I'm sleeping, or when I leave it unattended at home. If my wheel catches on fire then first I'll tell my spouse to call the fire department while I grab the fire extinguisher which is right outside my door and put the fire out. I'm not sure if I would try to drag the EUC out the door or just put it out in the apartment. What do you all think?

[OldFartRides]

L-ion fires are very difficult to put out. You dam near have to let them burn out. They even keep going under water because the runaway reaction also produces oxygen. The fires are so intense, they will burn right through fire blankets, as well as producing projectiles from explosions. These fires are no joke.

I plan on converting a “sensory deprivation” tank I built many years ago into a charging / storage facility with 8” flue to the outside of the garage.  
 

Best,

Edited May 25, 2023 by OldFartRides

[woke rider]

That's a great idea to convert your sensory deprivation tank into a storage facility! I'm still going to stick with my blanket plan so that if my EUC starts smoking then I can at least wrap it and drag it outside on the grass or even better over into the garbage dumpster area so it doesn't damage our homes.

[OldFartRides]

Until I get my tank converted, I never charge unattended, and if the weather is nice, I charge out in the side yard.

Best,

[woke rider]

I don't think being an owner of a Li-ion device increases our fire danger too much more than base-line. I wonder why iphones and computers don't catch on fire like scooters do? At least I have a fire plan for my household now.

[OldFartRides]

 

[Funky]

3 hours ago, earthtwin said:

My plan is to buy a fire blanket, they are like $12 on Amazon, my fire dept. might just give me one if I ask. So I will wrap my EUC in the blanket when charging or if I'm sleeping, or when I leave it unattended at home. If my wheel catches on fire then first I'll tell my spouse to call the fire department while I grab the fire extinguisher which is right outside my door and put the fire out. I'm not sure if I would try to drag the EUC out the door or just put it out in the apartment. What do you all think?

Had a good laugh reading your plan doh.. Ahh the young grass hoppers.  (As you try to fight the fire - you die from toxic smoke........)

Did you see the phone fire? Now make that 100x in scale - that's EUC fire.

Have you seen the S20/22 fire - it's the worst fire i have seen. The bigger the battery pack, the worse fire will be. Also when all batteries ignite same time - it's the worst thing that can happen.

If that happened your "fire blanket" will do jack shit.

 

 

As for my plan.. You can have a look at my post. 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Funky

[Mango]

I built an insulated, temperature-regulating steel shed outdoors to hold/charge my 5 eucs. It has a 2" thick brick foundation so it protects my deck if a fire breaks out and keeps the shed from flying away. Very comfortable temperature inside during the winter and summer. No smoke damage and possibly minimal fire damage.

Don't ever keep wheels indoors even with fire suppression, the smoke damage will make the living space uninhabitable for a long time.

[woke rider]

Wow, that's a really great method! I could probably make something akin to a brick kiln on my patio, I'll think it over, but I don't want to draw so much attention to myself that I frighten my neighbors.

Edited May 25, 2023 by earthtwin
typo

[Funky]

23 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

Wow, that's a really great method! I could probably make something akin to a brick kiln on my patio, I'll think it over, but I don't want to draw so much attention to myself that I frighten my neighbors.

Doh if you do outdoor storage - Temperature control is a must! Especially if you got cold winters. Same for moisture.. (I had an option of building something on my balcony - but didn't, because of those two things.)

Because batteries like -+ same temps as humans.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Funky

[woke rider]

I have been looking for a bag large enough for my Z10, like this FireSak https://firesak.com/product/firesak-large/

I found but it's to expensive @ 139$ I requested a quote from http://www.lithiumsafe.com/

Anybody want to possibly do a group buy? We could possibly put an Ewheels logo on, or EUCO maybe? It could be more of a liability than a PR benefit though. Or else I'll just start saving up for the FireSak.

Edited May 25, 2023 by earthtwin
website, more ideas

[Funky]

FireSak doesn't work... Sure you will have maybe 5 mins to get the wheel out of house. But it won't "contain" the fire. (Youtube already has shown tests of "bigger" eucs vs FireSak.)

For small wheels it "may" workout. But for big wheels it doesn't work at all. You still have to worry about the temperature of the fire... You know that anything can start burning even without flames.

Lithium fire can reach ~2000C temperature? Now go google real fast like wood/plastic ignition temperature point. Anything close enough can catch on fire, even without direct flames. (That's why i used rockwool - it absorbs heat and doesn't let it true. One side can be on fire.. But you still can put hand on other side and you only feel some warmth. I did tests on 2.5Cm thick rockwool samples. 10Cm ones are 4x thicker - better.) 

And i'm not 100% sure about my box even.. And i got "only" 2x ~777Wh packs (60cells per pack.) EUC fire are no joke! Smoke alone can kill you in minutes. If you are indoors. That's why i made something that can "contain" the fire. As i'm running away to call firefighters. Or if no one is home - let it burn itself out.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Funky

[The Brahan Seer]

I store my wheel on a cheap hand dolly. A stand made from fence posts keeps the wheel secure. By my back door in a utility room with dedicated linked smoke detector. The trolley has a handle I can grab and vacate the wheel outside very quickly. This will only help when I'm home though and mainly from possible burn injuries getting really close to the wheel.

I never charge unattended or asleep. I remember seeing figures on Lithium ion battery fires and around 30% occur during charging. But don't ask me to quote the link as I can't remember.

 

[woke rider]

That's good information @Funky I like your dolly plan @The Brahan Seer I researched the OSHA advice. It says, Store lithium batteries and devices in dry, cool locations. Avoid damaging lithium batteries and devices. Inspect them for signs of damage, such as bulging/cracking, hissing, leaking, rising temperature, and smoking before use, especially if they are wearable, As how to prevent lithium fires.

If I can find an affordable lipo safe bag, I'll get one in addition to the fire blanket and following OSHA's recommendations.

 

[Funky]

2 hours ago, earthtwin said:

If I can find an affordable lipo safe bag, I'll get one in addition to the fire blanket and following OSHA's recommendations.

Stop comparing gun rounds, to tank shells.  

Most of those "bag" and "boxes" are made for toy size batteries. RC racing battery size and so on.. Our EUC batteries are much bigger and powerful.

Meaning what is rated for ~5 cell sized toy battery - won't work for our 60+Cell packs.

Don't compare smartphone battery to our EUC battery.  One burns much brighter and noisier. (Hotter and much more dangerously.)

 

 

Have you watched EUC fires? If not go check youtube. Pev fires. Scooter fires. (Scooters have about same size battery, but still smaller than those 3600Wh wheels.) Check also how fast the smoke takes over the room...

Edited May 25, 2023 by Funky

[Funky]

Good example if that happened in your room - you couldn't even see anything.. It's one of many examples. Also check how the flames comes out sideways - it's the most hottest that moment, as it becomes almost as welding flame.   You need to contain that "first" burst.. By redirecting the flames/pressure true vent holes and so on.. My box doesn't have anything flammable in front of doors. - Fire can go out of the box 2 meters.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Funky

[xiiijojjo]

I park my GOTWAY next to the front door and hope for the best 

[Funky]

Just now, xiiijojjo said:

I park my GOTWAY next to the front door and hope for the best 

Dam.. Right next to front door? I hope it's not your only exit then.

 

Very cheap and "pretty" safe option is to have EUC leaned right against glass window. Or have it parked on angled wood plank. In case of fire - the fire will break glass and EUC will simply fall outside. (Ofc if you aren't lazy lifting your wheel every time on your windowsill. And have no-one be walking under the window.) Worst case you will need only replace window glass, instead of buying new home.  

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

I store my wheel on a cheap hand dolly.

This could be the best EUC fire containment plan that I’ve seen!

 ANYTHING that leaves the wheel inside your house is a disaster. If not from the flames, then from the smoke. There’s going to be a LOT of it.

 But what people don’t talk about in these fire plan threads is active fire prevention, which makes a huge difference in battery safety. Much bigger than Firesaks, fire blankets etc:

Handle your batteries correctly. Don’t let them get too hot from direct sunlight etc. Monitor the voltages, and react INSTANTLY if something changes. Don’t leave them in the charger for longer than a few hours after the charger turns green. Use power sparingly when the battery is low. Brake easy at first after charging to full. Don’t let the voltage drop too low while in storage. Don’t do battery mods unless you are truly experienced with Li-ions and electronics. Consider a wet battery pack as a bomb, forever. Don’t own a GotWay/Begode with 900Wh battery packs. Etc.

 Those steps prevent fires. A fire box in your house doesn’t. And like @Mango said:

5 hours ago, Mango said:

the smoke damage will make the living space uninhabitable for a long time.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by mrelwood

[Funky]

I built my box mainly for - when NO-ONE is home. Trolley/dolly will do jack shit when NO-ONE is home..  NO-ONE can even call firefighters, at least till everything has already burned down. Do you think some guy walking by will notice fire in time? Most cases people will notice the fire - when it's already past saving anything.

If i hear noises, or see smoke (I'm normally right next to my box/wheel sitting on the bed being on PC. When i'm home.) Need be i can quickly open window and throw it out of window on my balcony, or 3 floors down on grass (We don't have people walking down there..) Heck i'm even ready to put a dripping wet blanked on myself and throw already burning wheel outside. From box to window i got 2 meter distance. (But i don't think i'm going to do that... My best bet is to simply call firefighters. As i run and close my room doors behind me.)

Worst thing is coming home and be welcomed by firefighters, as everything has burned down.

 

As for smoke damage? Why would it be uninhabitable? Simply throw old clothes out, change the bed mattress, clean the all black smoke "sludge/junk" off and you're fine.

I have quite small room.. So i'm not worried about smoke damage. I'm scared of flames. To change everything in my room i need max 2000$. Literally almost nothing. I need something that will contain the fire, not the smoke. (Sure i could have built vent pipe going true my living space to outside.. But duck that. It will look so fugly and janky. + moisture and cold coming into wheel box... Wasn't an option for me.)

Edited May 26, 2023 by Funky