Your wheel catches FIRE while charging - what do you do?

[Skuggan]

7 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Not sure an F500 EA extinguisher is going to help much.

I dont really get why it wouldt. Must help a hell of a lot more than just to let it burn out totally.

 

[Skuggan]

4 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Let's not worry him unnecessarily !

Yeah I think everyone that has thought of getting or got an S22 have seen that video tbh. 😂😱

Ive been reading some topics on it but I have seen nothing about the F500 EA extinguisher that has piqued my interest. Thats the reason I made this post tbh.

[Paul A]

7 minutes ago, Skuggan said:

I dont really get why it wouldt. Must help a hell of a lot more than just to let it burn out totally.

 

If there is not enough room for a large metal box, then it is a small confined, indoor, enclosed space.

Most victims of house fires die from smoke inhalation.

The intense radiant heat will prevent you from getting near the fire.

Fire fighters have breathing apparatus, thick protective clothing shielding their entire body. 

As in the video, the fire fighter used a long metal pike to turn the EUC over to expose the burning underside

Lithium fires burn at incredible high temperatures.

Without proper equipment, training, experience.......might be best to extract EUC to outside ASAP and leave it to the professionals.

If unable to extract the EUC to the outside, then evacuate people.

Time is critical.

[Paul A]

21 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Let's not worry him unnecessarily !

 

Yes, KS seems to be less prone to fires than Gotway/Begode.

The crux of the matter is that attempting to fight an EUC fire seems to be an exercise in futility.

What is the gain?

[Cerbera]

Personally speaking I actually rehearse my fire plan once a month, because I have particularly difficult path to outside. I literally practice running downstairs, grabbing the fire blanket, throwing it over the wheel, then donning the thick gloves (and helmet if I remember) and manhandling it outside and up the steps to the garden via a ramp. I can do this is 1 minute so far. I hope that will be enough.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

6 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

grabbing the fire blanket, throwing it over the wheel, then donning the thick gloves

 

Maybe have a long tether attached as well, with it stretched out towards the door.

If the fire is already at an intense stage, the heat will prevent anyone getting near it.

Perhaps have the fire blanket already draped over the wheel as well.

Also, is the positioning of the EUC cutting off the escape exit/route?

Is there a second exit?

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Paul A

[Cerbera]

1 minute ago, Paul A said:

 

Maybe have a long tether attached as well, with it stretched out towards the door.

If the fire is already at an intense stage, the heat will prevent anyone getting near it.

Perhaps have the fire blanket already draped over the wheel as well.

 

Yep, those are good ideas ! There's all sorts of ways I could improve it if I felt it was necessary, but to be honest I don't live in great fear of battery fires. I may have built brick kiln type enclosures for all my li-poly batteries (used to be an avid drone pilot as well) but I honestly don't think that is necessary for Li-ion to quite the same extent, especially if they are treated properly in charging and not over-taxed in use. That is not to say it is not wise to have a plan should the worst happen, but it would also be wrong to be imagining that it is only a matter of time before your EUC explodes !

[Skuggan]

6 minutes ago, Paul A said:

If there is not enough room for a large metal box, then it is a small confined, indoor, enclosed space.

My original question is about the F500 EA Extinguisher. 
Because I couldt find anywhere to buy one I thought to ask here where it is relevant and alot of people who might already have done it.

As I would love to have the choice to do something about it. If not I think im capable to make the choice to escape the apartment otherwise. 
 

Dont get why you are so adamant that its already over before its begun. 
 

Better to have multiple choices imo.

[Cerbera]

25 minutes ago, Skuggan said:

Dont get why you are so adamant that its already over before its begun. 

It IS over, as soon as it starts, unless by some miracle the fire starts in one battery pack that you see immediately and have time to separate it from the machine before the rest of it catches. I am not aware that ANY EUC has instantly removable batteries, so I presume that is impossible, or that people aren't brave enough to start unscrewing a smoking pack !

I am surprised more design effort isn't going into building EUCs with grab-n-swap removable packs, which might make saving the machine a possibility in certain circumstances, or, more ideally, allowing charging of pack entirely separately from the machine.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

Maybe try contacting this website located in Europe.

They may sell direct to public, or direct to a retailer that does.

http://www.hct-europe.com/en/products/fire-extinguisher/

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Skuggan said:

The only thing I’ve seen that seems to be able to extinguish li-ion fire is a product called F500 EA

It might be better than dry chemical and foam, but my understanding is that you want a Class D extinguisher (powdered copper). Or better yet a garbage can filled with water.

Still, it's effectively over once it starts... the fires in the F500A video were burning in an exposed pack, not one contained in plastic/metal cases that shield the cells from any cooling effect of the extinguisher.

Get everyone tf out of the house, call emergency services, and count your blessings.

[Funky]

I personally built a "hot box" in case no one is home. It "may" contain the fire.

I even tested it by filling it full of gas and igniting it from distance. It didn't "blow up" and you all would be amazed how cool it looked in real life. All those small holes combined and it looked like big rocket for 2-4 seconds. Whole front door was like big rocket. The flames came out about 1 meter in distance. I mainly wanted to see if it would explode like "petard" destroying the box in result, or would the air vents work as intended. (It didn't have wheel inside, so gas volume was bigger than when wheel would be inside. Less gas inside - less pressure.)

I don't even intend to fight the fire. I will simply run next room and let it burn inside the box. While firefighters arrive. (Again - i mainly built it to contain the fire, if no one is home.) And it isn't "much" bigger than wheel it self. So worth it.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

It is the lives of everyone else in the apartment building that are in danger as well.

Apartment fires are extremely lethal.

High number of occupants, densely packed.

No safe escape from windows above the second level.

Etc....

Grenfell Tower fire (UK) in recent times.

 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Also, is the positioning of the EUC cutting off the escape exit/route?

No. But its literally 10 ft away from the door. I do have to move a piano out of the way first, but it is on a sliding stand !

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Is there a second exit?

Only out of an upstairs window !

In my house there is only me, the cat and the computer to save, and I do all 3 if I can just get the wheel out of the building !

And I am not in a tower block - I have good separation between my building and next door - if my building burns it burns alone at least !

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Cerbera

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

It is the lives of everyone else in the apartment building that are in danger as well.

Apartment fires are extremely lethal.

High number of occupants, densely packed.

No safe escape from windows above the second level.

Etc....

Grenfell Tower fire (UK) in recent times.

 

Houses are built differently..

Example i live in "old brick" house. 5 floors which have 5 separate entrances. Each floor has 3 apartments. (Flames can't really "spread".. More or less the room where euc is placed will only burn down.)

Something like that. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Funky

[Skuggan]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

 

It is the lives of everyone else in the apartment building that are in danger as well.

 

Yeah, thats my worry aswell, the worst part is that im living in a apartment house made out of 95% wood. 😮‍💨 

 

maybe should build a euc stand on this and have a rope tied to it so I can drag it out with some distance to me and the wheel in an emergency.

[Paul A]

The FireSaks ultimately failed.

The benefits seemed to be:

At the commencement of fire, before intense thermal runaway

It provided some heat shielding, some containment

The EUC was zippered into the bag with loop handles

It was packaged, prepared, ready to be dragged out more easily.

_______________________

 

Perhaps an option for apartment dwellers on higher floors, is if possible, to eject the EUC out the window quickly.

Rather than laboriously and taking a lot of time to drag through stairwells, passage ways, flights of stairs, etc. 

What is below though?  Empty ground?  Possible pedestrians?

Eject by lowering it down at the end of a rope, in a controlled manner?

_______________________

 

Trolley might be adding to complications.

Is the EUC secured to the trolley?  Is the EUC going to separate/fall off?

Why use a trolley? 

Wouldn't a tether directly, pre-attached to EUC, be more effective, reliable?

[Skuggan]

2 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Wouldn't a tether directly, pre-attached to EUC, be more effective, reliable?

Yeah chucking it out the window for me is a no go.

def have to be thru the door in that case. 
 

if I would have to tether on and off a rope on the euc everytime knowing myself I would def not do it because of the hastle. 
 

the stand on it would def be good enough for it to be able to drag it kinda stressfully without it falling off.

Its def a hard scenario issue thats for sure. 
 

 I could place it in the bathtub while charging it but tbh my gf would hate me.. 😂

[Paul A]

Maybe use a carabiner clip.

It is spring loaded, snap lock, clips on and off very easily.

Used for abseiling, mountaineering.

 

[Funky]

46 minutes ago, Skuggan said:

Yeah, thats my worry aswell, the worst part is that im living in a apartment house made out of 95% wood. 😮‍💨 

 

maybe should build a euc stand on this and have a rope tied to it so I can drag it out with some distance to me and the wheel in an emergency.

If fire is contained in said "container" you could be available to move the box with hands. But knowing how hot the "container" will get.. It's better to have some kind extended handle. Also have said "vents" placed away from you, or anything that can catch on fire.

Rope it will go left/right while pulling. You need fixed/hard handle, not a rope.. May even "spread/catch" something else on fire, while pulling. (That's why i don't plan of doing anything with it. I built my box - when fire starts, it will simply burn itself out over time.)

If one got those "old" cast iron bathtubs - you could simply place it there.  If fire starts simply turn on shower. Let the angry euc enjoy spa day.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

In the news at this moment:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/least-13-killed-russian-nightclub-fire-officials-say-2022-11-05/

November 6, 2022

Reuters

Thirteen people killed in Russian nightclub fire

Nov 5 (Reuters) - Thirteen people were killed when a fire tore through a crowded nightclub in the Russian city of Kostroma in the early hours of Saturday, officials said.

The blaze broke out at about 2:30 a.m. in Polygon - an entertainment venue with a bar, restaurant and large dance floor - after a man shot a flare gun at the ceiling, the TASS news agency said.

"Very quickly the room began to fill with acrid smoke and the evacuation exits were difficult to see. There was pushing and panic," the agency reported, citing an eyewitness in Kostroma, which lies some 300 km (190 miles) northeast of Moscow.

 

A 23-year-old man has been detained in connection with the incident, investigators said.

Prosecutors have also launched an investigation into the establishment itself, after finding that a number of the evacuation exits were blocked.

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

I even tested it by filling it full of gas and igniting it from distance.

VIDEO! If nothing else than to satisfy the pyromaniac inside me...

[chanman]

There seems to be considerable warning before the battery fire starts in earnest, loud popping, maybe some gas escaping from the cells or light smoke from the control board. If you're around to witness it you could react and get the wheel out before the fire really gets going. Possibly the noise or smoke alarm will warn you if you're in the vicinity but not actively watching it.

[Funky]

38 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

VIDEO! If nothing else than to satisfy the pyromaniac inside me...

You can guess why i won't upload it...  Don't want to get a surprise visit from police. Or get somehow in trouble.

Doh i can say the show was "blasting-off" good. Also sound/noise it made.. As the pressure of ignited gas was coming out of the holes. 

I was expecting each hole will have small like flame coming out, but no. Whole door ignited in flames. It literally looked like big rocket - but sideways.

Something like in this video. Doh combine every "hole" from my box - literally whole door front as that bottle and 3-4x bigger in flame height..

 

Whit this test i also found out how "far" i need to place my box - so nothing else catches on fire.. In the direction where my vent holes are positioned. 1 and half meter is safe zone.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

The Begode battery demo video.

 

https://www.facebook.com/AlienRides/videos/begode-rs-resolute-battery-demo/300221391996633/