Your wheel catches FIRE while charging - what do you do?

[Freeforester]

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Don’t own a GotWay/Begode with 900Wh battery packs. Etc.

That’s quite a few people then, self included😳. Apart from blaming poor production methods and/or quality control, did anyone ever manage to pin down the specific cause of this problem, ie is it primarily the chemical properties of the type T cells  which were/are the issue, or is it a combination of aspects, ie usage,  possible short circuits, etc? 

Until this is determined fully and finally, I’d see it as quite a barrier to certification of  eg electric flying machines (glad I’ve still got a petrol paramotor, frankly), does anyone know whether any forensic work is ongoing or has determined the root cause of the problem? TIA

[The Brahan Seer]

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This could be the best EUC fire containment plan that I’ve seen!

Steady on! No one said anything about fire containment and nor did I, this is my fire action plan as the title asks. I also explained the short comings in my post.

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 But what people don’t talk about in these fire plan threads is active fire prevention, which makes a huge difference in battery safety. Much bigger than Firesaks, fire blankets etc:

Handle your batteries correctly. Don’t let them get too hot from direct sunlight etc. Monitor the voltages, and react INSTANTLY if something changes. Don’t leave them in the charger for longer than a few hours after the charger turns green. Use power sparingly when the battery is low. Brake easy at first after charging to full. Don’t let the voltage drop too low while in storage. Don’t do battery mods unless you are truly experienced with Li-ions and electronics. Consider a wet battery pack as a bomb, forever. Don’t own a GotWay/Begode with 900Wh battery packs. Etc.

I agree with this totally.

If we are not home and our wheels catch fire there will be very little to stop it.  Could the intensity of the fire cause the temperature in the room rise enough to create spontaneous combustion anyway? outside of any box or containment unless there is an exhaust flue to the outside.

Only real solution is dedicated outside storage/ shed unconnected to anything else.

 

[mrelwood]

Just based on what I’ve read about when the fires have happened, unless the wheel has been in a crash recently, or if the mainboard mosfets have fried (left in an open state), or if the battery packs have gotten water damage, I don’t recall there to have been spontaneous combustions without warning signs. Therefore I’m not at all worried that my wheel would  combust when I’m away. I would hope that no-one would leave their wheel charging when they go out.

30 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Steady on! No one said anything about fire containment and nor did I, this is my fire action plan as the title asks.

Sorry, should’ve typed “action” instead. Or “fire related plan” even.

30 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

did anyone ever manage to pin down the specific cause of this problem, ie is it primarily the chemical properties of the type T cells  which were/are the issue

I think there was some sort of more educated suspicion, but I don’t remember what it was. The exact same battery cells are in use in other wheels as well (mine included), which haven’t jumped up in the fire charts above average amounts.

Most of the fire stories have had clear warning signs that the user has simply ignored.

[The Brahan Seer]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t recall there to have been spontaneous combustions without warning signs. Therefore I’m not at all worried that my wheel would  combust when I’m away.

Lost in translation. I was talking about how when a fire starts it creates everything around it to spontaneous combust after 3 minutes of so if the fire gets enough fuel.

I agree with you. I'm not worried about our wheels catching fire if we look after them. 

The London Fire brigade produces a brochure to this affect to:

 

[Robse]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Just based on what I’ve read about when the fires have happened, unless the wheel has been in a crash recently, or if the mainboard mosfets have fried (left in an open state), or if the battery packs have gotten water damage, I don’t recall there to have been spontaneous combustions without warning signs. Therefore I’m not at all worried that my wheel would  combust when I’m away. I would hope that no-one would leave their wheel charging when they go out.

Sorry, should’ve typed “action” instead. Or “fire related plan” even.

I think there was some sort of more educated suspicion, but I don’t remember what it was. The exact same battery cells are in use in other wheels as well (mine included), which haven’t jumped up in the fire charts above average amounts.

Most of the fire stories have had clear warning signs that the user has simply ignored.

We need a pinned table of warning sign:

First of all the most important:

1: The smell of burnt electronics.

2: Suddenly won't charge to 100%

3: Wheel refuses to charge at all.

4: Generally weird charging behavior; Abnormally long charging time.  Charger goes green and red repeatedly. (unless this is a known feature for specific wheels / chargers ).

5: Odd noises from wheel when trying to charge.

6: High felt temperature at wheel while charging.

7: Unexplained sudden reduction in (normal) range.

8: Weird power on/off wheel behavior;  Shuts down by itself, press power button more times to power up.

9: Warnings in the wheel display must be taken seriously!

10: Some of the above which is experienced right after a crash.

more: ??

Edited May 26, 2023 by Robse
Added "odd noises"

[Funky]

26 minutes ago, Robse said:

4: Charger goes green and red repeatedly.

Mine did that once... At last 99% ~0.5Volts of charging cycle. The intervals of red/green was around 4-5 min charging, 1-2 mins off like a clockwork. After reconnecting charger it did it few more times, before resuming the standard charging as it used to.. Haven't had this happen anymore.

Still don't know WTF was that.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Lost in translation. I was talking about how when a fire starts it creates everything around it to spontaneous combust after 3 minutes of so if the fire gets enough fuel.

Absolutely. I actually responded more to what @Funky had commented earlier. Should’ve included a quote, my bad.

 

42 minutes ago, Robse said:

We need a pinned table of warning sign:

Very good list! Although,

42 minutes ago, Robse said:

Charger goes green and red repeatedly.

Doesn’t Sherman and S22 chargers do that as a part of their normal charging process?

[Poker]

This thread needs more violent fires to scare people:

 

From: 

 

[techyiam]

9 minutes ago, Poker said:

This thread needs more violent fires to scare people

Do you believe this thread's purpose is to scare people?

Or is it to have like-minded folks to shared their ideas and experiences with others?

[Poker]

I just thought a video would be the best way to show why its important to consider some of the advice in the thread.

Also the thread I linked to has discussed the topic of fire safety 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Poker

[techyiam]

There are already other threads where people can post fire incidents. 

[Freeforester]

🎼 “Ain’t nuthin’ gonna break my ‘Stride,

Ain’t nuthin’ gonna slow me down, oh no,

- we gotta keep on moovin’…. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Freeforester

[5Cauac]

33 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

We got on top of it quick with fire extinguishers and called fire respone who dowsed the area with water and posted a fire watch, but it took almost 2 hours to completely extinguish.

 

 

It's a shame we can't readily get AVD Fire extinguishers in the states. ATM it's the ONLY Fire Extinguisher than can put out a Lithium battery fire.

It took them almost 2 hrs. because that is how long it took to cool down the batteries enough to stop the thermal runaway. 

Below is a video of an AVD Fire extinguisher in action. (Granted we would need/use bigger extinguishers for our wheels)

This fire was put out in less than 4 mins and was safe to handle after about 10 mins

 

[sbb]

2 hours ago, 5Cauac said:

(Granted we would need/use bigger extinguishers for our wheels)

The bigger challenge would be gaining access to the packs for direct application.  The best any of us are going to do without tools and PPE is to coat the EUC, which would be useless.