Your wheel catches FIRE while charging - what do you do?

[Skuggan]

46 minutes ago, chanman said:

There seems to be considerable warning

Yeah that is what ive seen in video, if considerable is like 5sec tho yeah.

but I only recharge it when im done with chores etc. So I can keep an active mind about it.

still havent seen any s20-22 fires since that pre production/launch S20 snapped and burned up. 
 

anyone got any more sources or is it just that one we know of right now?

[Skuggan]

3 minutes ago, Paul A said:

The Begode battery demo video.

If that is real that is some great advancement in fire/explosion risk.

[Chriull]

26 minutes ago, Skuggan said:

If that is real that is some great advancement in fire/explosion risk.

That's just an old marketing video for begodes try with lifepo cells...

From what one sees from all the new wheels since then this seems irrelevant.

[Cress]

EUC Buyers have to demand better engineering to prevent fires. We have to demand EUC Manufacturers use proven manufacturer/model cells that match the power demands of the EUC.  We have to demand Manufacturers include Battery Management Systems that prevent and alert before cells are damaged. Good engineering from the Manufacturers = fewer EUCs being thrown-out-of windows.        Somebody could make good video out of that -

[Cerbera]

Just checking OP hasn't considered a Fire Sak, for its space-saving and containment abilities. I say 'containment', but there's still quite a lot of the red stuff blowing out the side vents periodically so you wouldn't want want curtains nearby ! I am considering one of these in addition to my current plans - I like that it has handles I can drag if lifting doesn't work. Would be easy to tie long rope to as well...

 

[slowpoke94133]

Foam

[mrelwood]

While escape plans are real good to have and to practice, just looking at the EUC fires statistically I think there are more important things one should do:

1) Monitor battery health at all times! Check your voltage after a charge, be alert for a significant reduction in range, and text immediately to any error messages from the wheel. Don’t try to recharge a battery that has dropped significantly below “0%” (avg. ~3.0V/cell).

2) Don’t ride or recharge a wheel that has known battery related issues!

3) Water ingress. If your wheel falls in to a deep puddle, creek or such, consider the packs non-rechargeable from that point forward.

4) Don’t purchase a first batch or a preproduction model!

5) Be really careful if you buy a second hand wheel. There’s no way of confirming how the battery has been managed.

6) Don’t own a GotWay/Begode.

I know, newer Begodes aren’t bursting to flames much more than other brands, but even their build quality is infamously shoddy, battery assemblies included. There is a higher risk with them.

 That’s how you may decrease the probability of a fire by up to two orders of magnitude.

[Paul A]

@Asphalt What is the current tally?  Thanks.

[Funky]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

6) Don’t own a GotWay/Begode.

I like number six.  

But kinda racist... Againt's one of wheels company. Don't be a hater. Be better.. Yes we know those wheels are build price to performance. And anyone who buys them - are okay with that. They enjoy subpar built quality and such things. You pay for what you get.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z#Sec5

Published: 30 August 2017

 

Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires

Abstract

Lithium-ion battery fires generate intense heat and considerable amounts of gas and smoke.

Although the emission of toxic gases can be a larger threat than the heat, the knowledge of such emissions is limited.

This paper presents quantitative measurements of heat release and fluoride gas emissions during battery fires for seven different types of commercial lithium-ion batteries. The results have been validated using two independent measurement techniques and show that large amounts of hydrogen fluoride (HF) may be generated, ranging between 20 and 200 mg/Wh of nominal battery energy capacity.

In addition, 15–22 mg/Wh of another potentially toxic gas, phosphoryl fluoride (POF3), was measured in some of the fire tests.

Gas emissions when using water mist as extinguishing agent were also investigated.

Fluoride gas emission can pose a serious toxic threat and the results are crucial findings for risk assessment and management, especially for large Li-ion battery packs.

 

Conclusions

Significant amounts of HF, ranging between 20 and 200 mg/Wh of nominal battery energy capacity, were detected from the burning Li-ion batteries.

The measured HF levels, verified using two independent measurement methods, indicate that HF can pose a serious toxic threat, especially for large Li-ion batteries and in confined environments.

The amounts of HF released from burning Li-ion batteries are presented as mg/Wh.

If extrapolated for large battery packs the amounts would be 2–20 kg for a 100 kWh battery system, e.g. an electric vehicle and 20–200 kg for a 1000 kWh battery system, e.g. a small stationary energy storage.

The immediate dangerous to life or health (IDLH) level for HF is 0.025 g/m³ (30 ppm)²² and the lethal 10 minutes HF toxicity value (AEGL-3) is 0.0139 g/m³ (170 ppm)²³.

The release of hydrogen fluoride from a Li-ion battery fire can therefore be a severe risk and an even greater risk in confined or semi-confined spaces.

[Paul A]

See the latest posting/video of a Gotway fire by Member Rawnei in the 'Fire History' thread.

 

 

[Paul A]

A fire extinguisher is probably not going to be of much use when an EUC starts to burn.

______________________________________________________________

 

NYC firefighters rescue woman dangling from window during apartment blaze

The Sun

3.5M subscribers

Nov 6, 2022

 

DRAMATIC footage shows a person dangling from a window of a New York City apartment building on Saturday (November 5) morning where a fire started on the 20th floor.

The video, filmed on a mobile phone, shows a person hanging from a window as smoke billows out, while another person leans out with their upper body.

 

A firefighter could be see reaching down to the pair below from an upper window, before other firefighters arrived on the scene to rescue residents.

At least 38 people were injured in the blaze which the New York City Fire Department said was caused by a "lithium ion battery connected to a micro mobility device".

 

[Paul A]

Dozens injured in Manhattan high-rise fire

ABC News

13.8M subscribers

Nov 6, 2022

 

The three-alarm fire broke out Saturday morning on the 20th floor of a midtown Manhattan high-rise, with a "heavy fire condition," officials said.

 

[GothamMike]

I see welding blankets are 20 bucks at Harbor Freight. Do they work well?

[Tawpie]

9 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

I see welding blankets are 20 bucks at Harbor Freight. Do they work well?

@GoGeorgeGo did a video with welding blankets... as I recall, they don't work well. As with other options, they should give you a tiny bit more time to get everyone out of the building but as to 'suppressing' the fire, no, they don't work well.

[Paul A]

Video of blanket test on electric car fire.

Would a smaller version for EUCs, scooters, indoors help to contain/retard a fire?

 

Centro Zaragoza tests the Bridgehill Fire Blanket on an electric vehicle

Centro Zaragoza

1.04K subscribers

Feb 14, 2020

Centro Zaragoza, in cooperation with Bridgehill and the Fightfighters Department of Zaragoza, has tested the Bridgehill car fire blanket.

See the test progress and the temperatures reached in the video.

 

 

 

[Asphalt]

On 11/6/2022 at 8:01 PM, Paul A said:

@Asphalt What is the current tally?  Thanks.

As of Nov 8, 2022:

 

Frequency of ALL fires

Gotway/Begode: 37

Kingsong: 11

InMotion: 5

Ninebot/Segway: 3

IPS: 1

 

Frequency of fires excluding known abuse
(Fires NOT known to be caused by water submersion, battery modification, crashes, etc)

Gotway/Begode: 29

Kingsong: 7

InMotion: 5

Ninebot/Segway: 3

IPS: 1

[Robse]

39 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

As of Nov 8, 2022:

 

Frequency of ALL fires

Gotway/Begode: 37

Kingsong: 11

InMotion: 5

Ninebot/Segway: 3

IPS: 1

 

Frequency of fires excluding known abuse
(Fires NOT known to be caused by water submersion, battery modification, crashes, etc)

Gotway/Begode: 29

Kingsong: 7

InMotion: 5

Ninebot/Segway: 3

IPS: 1

A very important detail is missing, and i'm well aware that it will be very difficult to obtain correct data on this, but in order to form a correct overview, there is a lack of information on how many wheels the various manufacturers have sold over time.  Example: If Gotway has sold 100 times as many as IPS, then how about 29 versus 1 wheel up in flames ?   But anyway, good work ( this thread )

[Funky]

25 minutes ago, Robse said:

A very important detail is missing, and i'm well aware that it will be very difficult to obtain correct data on this, but in order to form a correct overview, there is a lack of information on how many wheels the various manufacturers have sold over time.  Example: If Gotway has sold 100 times as many as IPS, then how about 29 versus 1 wheel up in flames ?   But anyway, good work ( this thread )

And also how many not known cases.. Not everyone goes on internet to write a "spicy" review. You can imaginate how many times more it is in reality. Easy 3x amounts more.

And even if they sold 1000x times more. It still would be "X"amount wheels that burned. It doesn't matter how many each manufacturers have sold. (But i see what you mean..) You also should take into mind the riders who choose gotway. The ones who jump and do "extreme" stuff.. Ofc those wheels will burn a lot more. Because those wheels get the most brutally riden.

Each time wheel drops sideways - it more or less same as hitting hammer on plank of wood. All those solder get hit and over time something will break. Some amount of "shock" is taken..

Edited just now by Funky

Edited November 8, 2022 by Funky

[Cerbera]

26 minutes ago, Funky said:

And also how many not known cases.. Not everyone goes on internet to write a "spicy" review. You can imaginate how many times more it is in reality. Easy 3x amounts more.

Hmm. I would think that a fire, of any magnitude, is no small thing, and I am fairly sure that pretty much every single person who has had one caused by an EUC will feel the need to document that experience.

[Paul A]

Inmotion might be the largest manufacturer and highest volume of EUC's sold.

Does anyone have evidence/data to corroborate?

[Robse]

10 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Inmotion might be the largest manufacturer and highest volume of EUC's sold.

Does anyone have evidence/data to corroborate?

This must be the smaller wheels then, like V8 / V5   Every single time you see anyone on the tube, it's Gotway, Gotway, Gotway,  Leaperkim,.  and sometimes with luck, a V11 V12 - or a 18S / 16X   ... The smaller wheels don't get beaten, agree @Funky .  

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Frequency of fires excluding known abuse
(Fires NOT known to be caused by water submersion, battery modification, crashes, etc)

 

The subset in part makes that qualification.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Paul A

[Robse]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

And even if they sold 1000x times more. It still would be "X"amount wheels that burned. It doesn't matter how many each manufacturers have sold. (But i see what you mean..)

 

Oh yes it matters a lot.  If reported known fires = 1 out of 1000 sold (0,1%) , versus 30 out of 30000 (0,1%)  - then the rate of failure (fires) is far better  with the wheels that sold 30000 units because your statistical material rests on a much larger set of data.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Robse

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, Robse said:

This must be the smaller wheels then, like V8 / V5   Every single time you see anyone on the tube, it's Gotway, Gotway, Gotway,  Leaperkim,.  and sometimes with luck, a V11 V12 - or a 18S / 16X   ... The smaller wheels don't get beaten, agree @Funky .  

Ofc us the "normies" don't ride anything heavier than 65lbs. And no one will make a riding "pov" of said small wheel going "slowly".  

D14 16S V8 still is the KING for small city riding.  2-3 km till store. Or to train station and then to job. -The same thing i do on my 18xl. (If i wasn't so "big/heavy" i would have gotten myself something smaller. Because i didn't need the range. Doh having bigger speed than those "small" wheel are great.)

In my country i still haven't seen anything bigger than those "small" wheels. Because we simply don't ride with cars here. And our cities are small.