How NOT to ride

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

What I do know is I would much rather have variety than monotony so in that vein, I disagree with this rush to be the same.

Interesting way of twisting the subject. You talk like a faceplant at 60km/h was a requested feature for the ones who have crashed. I suggest reading a few of their comments after the crash. None of them applaud for the variety that allowed them the experience.

Do you understand why there are regulations for nearly every product that is being sold today? A disclaimer asking you to google whether the product will be extremely harmful to your health or not doesn’t quite cut it. Even in 2020. And GW doesn’t have even that btw.

 I’m not at all talking about a top speed of 50km/h here. Nearly all GW riders back off when (if) they hear the 80% beeps. Having a tilt-back at the same time shouldn’t bother but a handful of riders. (For whom it could be adjusted to 85% or even 90%.) But it would’ve saved several riders a big puddle of hurt and an even larger hospital bill.

 Have you googled for wether touching your specific EUC with your bare hands gives you cancer? If you hadn’t, “you can only blame yourself”. Nope, it just doesn’t work like that.

The lack of variety I’m asking for is to none of the EUCs to give us cancer. Isn’t that a reasonable thing to expect from an EUC?

[Simply_Striking]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:56 AM, mrelwood said:

Having the option to turn off the tilt-back on a GW is simply a lethally wrong design decision. Having to use a third party app to set the tilt-back to speeds over 48km/h is another. And having no possibility of a tilt-back speed that gets lower with the battery charge is yet another. Together they make sure that most GW riders remove the tilt-back altogether.

It is on the user, these features are on by default. It's the same with any manufactured item, people who buy cars and find ways to defeat the seatbelt, or turn off the safety systems ABS, traction controls etc, removing protective features on power tools for "improved performance". That is the users.

Riding an EUC, is a very niche thing, and anyone that does is more than aware of the risk that involved. If you choose to ignore the risk/ and not mitigate said risk, it is on the user.

 

Do not get me wrong, manufacturers should also make there products safe to use within a set parameter, but with these devices said parameters can vary. Battery, terrain, weather, temperature, to list a few which the manufacturers cannot control.  

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Simply_Striking said:

It is on the user, these features are on by default.

Yes, at 25km/h. Anyone who changes that setting deserves whatever happens. Max tilt-back speed is 48km/h, yet some GW’s are advertised going as fast as 80km/h. And as said before, GW doesn’t have an option to lower the tilt-back speed as the battery gets lower. The tilt-back settings on a GW are useless to nearly all GW riders. It’s not the user’s fault that GW’s performance and usability are trumped badly unless deselecting the tilt-back.

1 hour ago, Simply_Striking said:

It's the same with any manufactured item, people who buy cars and find ways to defeat the seatbelt, or turn off the safety systems ABS, traction controls etc, removing protective features on power tools for "improved performance". That is the users.

Maybe you missed a post or a few. Removing tilt-back on a GW is an user selectable option on GW’s own app. It has absolutely nothing to do with finding ways to modify the product to bypass safety features.

1 hour ago, Simply_Striking said:

Riding an EUC, is a very niche thing, and anyone that does is more than aware of the risk that involved.

You’d be surprised. There are a lot of people that are just not wired that way. My brother has been riding EUC for 3 years, studied in a hi tech high school, and a month ago started wondering if it would be better to keep one’s hands tightly next to one’s body when falling from standstill, or to try to soften the impact. Things that are clear as day to you and me are not so to everyone else.

 For example a local rider who wanted to find out the top speed of his GW Tesla a few years ago. Well, he found out. He did realize that going that fast has many risks, but he couldn’t imagine that any manufacturer would manufacture a vehicle that is designed to throw you off at the top speed, no matter how slow you accelerate.

1 hour ago, Simply_Striking said:

If you choose to ignore the risk/ and not mitigate said risk, it is on the user.

So, death penalty from walking a red light is ok, because they ignored the risk of legal prosecution?

1 hour ago, Simply_Striking said:

Do not get me wrong, manufacturers should also make there products safe to use within a set parameter

And that is exactly what I’m calling out here for. But surprisingly many disagree, and it sounded like you do too.

1 hour ago, Simply_Striking said:

with these devices said parameters can vary. Battery, terrain, weather, temperature, to list a few which the manufacturers cannot control.  

Other manufacturers can. It’s as if they had a miraculous device hidden inside the wheel that can sense various aspects of electricity, motion, and even temperature. And even combine said senses for a desired outcome.

[xiiijojjo]

11 hours ago, cucurac said:

I have a Gotway Tesla V2 1020 Wh as a first EUC and I still can't figure out where the line is for a possible cut out. This seems crazy as the rider is in such a vulnerable position. When I'm going up steep hills, I hold my hands up thinking I might get pitched off. Down hill, near full charge, who knows? I don't know how different safety is between models. I bought it because it seemed like the right balance of weight (lift it up stairs) and speed and range. I don't fully understand the safety features, even though I've tried to read about them. It comes with basically nothing. Many discussions seem to think it's fine to disable safety features (like that the 20 mph beep is a pain/not needed).

Listen i had the Tesla v1 for 8000+ km and i can tell you that you can torque this wheel as much as you want if you don't use after market pads. I didn't use pads and i pretty much leaned as aggressively as possible being almost horizontal when accelerating from being still, however if you add pads (or weigh more than 88kg) i wouldn't know how it behaves. 

The only warning i used was the 80% beeps which should always be respected but this is an incredibly versatile wheel and i never had a cutout while leaning as aggressively as i do, nor any other issue for that matter. Mind you i don't recommend any beginner to lean like that but you should not fear this wheel as long as you repect the 80% beeps as this thing handles my suicidal riding style with ease. 

[seage]

41 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

Listen i had the Tesla v1 for 8000+ km and i can tell you that you can torque this wheel as much as you want if you don't use after market pads. I didn't use pads and i pretty much leaned as aggressively as possible being almost horizontal when accelerating from being still, however if you add pads (or weigh more than 88kg) i wouldn't know how it behaves. 

The only warning i used was the 80% beeps which should always be respected but this is an incredibly versatile wheel and i never had a cutout while leaning as aggressively as i do, nor any other issue for that matter. Mind you i don't recommend any beginner to lean like that but you should not fear this wheel as long as you repect the 80% beeps as this thing handles my suicidal riding style with ease. 

Would you suicide lean at 40% battery?

[xiiijojjo]

43 minutes ago, seage said:

Would you suicide lean at 40% battery?

No of course not the less battery the less performance is to be excepted if you want to remain safe

[I_Must_Bust]

9 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

Listen i had the Tesla v1 for 8000+ km and i can tell you that you can torque this wheel as much as you want if you don't use after market pads. I didn't use pads and i pretty much leaned as aggressively as possible being almost horizontal when accelerating from being still, however if you add pads (or weigh more than 88kg) i wouldn't know how it behaves. 

The only warning i used was the 80% beeps which should always be respected but this is an incredibly versatile wheel and i never had a cutout while leaning as aggressively as i do, nor any other issue for that matter. Mind you i don't recommend any beginner to lean like that but you should not fear this wheel as long as you repect the 80% beeps as this thing handles my suicidal riding style with ease. 

Did you ever come across power pads that would work for the tesla? The contact surface is so damn small...

[seage]

9 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

No of course not the less battery the less performance is to be excepted if you want to remain safe

Explains why you've never written your name out on the pavement with face skin, lmao. I've been on kingsong until just recently, so i never tried the actual full send yet. 

 

[Sludog]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Interesting way of twisting the subject. You talk like a faceplant at 60km/h was a requested feature for the ones who have crashed. I suggest reading a few of their comments after the crash. None of them applaud for the variety that allowed them the experience.

Do you understand why there are regulations for nearly every product that is being sold today? A disclaimer asking you to google whether the product will be extremely harmful to your health or not doesn’t quite cut it. Even in 2020. And GW doesn’t have even that btw.

 I’m not at all talking about a top speed of 50km/h here. Nearly all GW riders back off when (if) they hear the 80% beeps. Having a tilt-back at the same time shouldn’t bother but a handful of riders. (For whom it could be adjusted to 85% or even 90%.) But it would’ve saved several riders a big puddle of hurt and an even larger hospital bill.

 Have you googled for wether touching your specific EUC with your bare hands gives you cancer? If you hadn’t, “you can only blame yourself”. Nope, it just doesn’t work like that.

The lack of variety I’m asking for is to none of the EUCs to give us cancer. Isn’t that a reasonable thing to expect from an EUC?

Is this just a Gotway Euc problem of the cutouts or an EUC in general problem? By no means am I a speed demon and I ride casually for fun and relaxation and would not never push top speed for long periods of time.  Still fun to get some speed bursts every now and then but if this is a specifically a Gotway problem then maybe I would steer away from this brand. Is this cutoff problem mostly because owners disable the factory setting or can it happen with all safety features enabled? I only have one wheel, an Inmotion V10, and really like the ride and I feel the build quality is pretty nice and I feel safe riding.  I didn't mess with any of the customization features as of yet but I have it limited to 16 mph for now until I get more comfortable with the ride. I do get some beeps but mostly going down hill. Its pretty loud and scary and most pedestrians think I'm honking at them. lol 

 

[.....]

@Sludog

Im pretty sure its just a simple matter of physics. Some companies leave more headroom and won't allow us to tap into as easily, while others allow the user to push right up and past that point. I don't know if gotway is any worse/better than the others. Perhaps it seems that way, but it may also be that gotway owners reach for that brand, as they are the type of person LOOKING to push faster into the end of the wheels headroom. It seems that inno is trying to take gotways title for it tho. Oddly we arent hearing much about it happening to KS (who used to be known for conservative headroom specs and safety).

Edited November 18, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[cucurac]

Thanks for the comments xiiijojjo. I will feel a bit better about harder leaning (especially with battery > 50%).

Slugdog: mrelwood is talking about the safety feature implementation on Gotway, which I am just learning about here, that apparently differs from most other brands, does not have tilt-back (enforced braking) that adjusts to the battery level. This and other things tend to make users turn off the safety features all together, and then crash like in the video (some here love that you can turn off the safety's, which are too conservative).

At least the companies should explain exactly how the safety features are supposed to work. And really, they should also let you feel what a cut out is like. "if you disable this, this will happen unpredictably".  I feel like there should be some kind of system that would make them coast after a cut-out.

[I_Must_Bust]

To add to what we are saying above about safety features... I just had a look at my Tesla's manual and it actually says this:
"GotWay has those automatic protective functions: speed limit protection based on rider's weight and battery capacity;..."

I assume this refers only to the 80% alarm rather than a tilt-back enforced speed limit or any of the speed alarms but, to the average person who might not scour forums for info to correct the manual itself, I think this could indeed be dangerous. 

I don't think we should necessarily have a tilt-back that cannot be disabled but I think at least the option to have an 80/90/whatever% tilt-back should be a no brainer considering riders often wear helmets that reduce our hearing.

[xiiijojjo]

18 minutes ago, cucurac said:

Thanks for the comments xiiijojjo. I will feel a bit better about harder leaning (especially with battery > 50%).

 

It's all about knowing the limits of the wheel and respecting it. But especially for a beginner don't hard lean right away slowly learn and get comfortable i did not hard lean before i had 5000km + in total over 2 different eucs also don't do it with battery lower than 70% just to be safe. Most importantly is being very incremental about how you start pushing the wheel i didn't go from slow beginner riding to gravity defying leans in a matter of days but years. 

Also the more dangerous riding style (and experience with crashes) the more protection you will automatically be wearing as a result so most beginners don't wear gear that would sufficiently protect them if they were to do this yet another reason i can't recommend aggressive riding for beginners.I would rather recommend learning technical riding and maneuvers to recover from wobble or potholes, going backwards, 1 leg etc. once you have all that down and more then you would be better suited to start pushing other more life threateningly dangerous aspects of riding an euc

Edited November 18, 2020 by xiiijojjo

[mrelwood]

21 hours ago, Sludog said:

Is this just a Gotway Euc problem of the cutouts or an EUC in general problem?

GotWay only, and now Veteran also. Although, Veteran has a top speed so high, battery so large, and price so expensive that we are probably not going to hear about unintentional cutouts on it. 

 

21 hours ago, Sludog said:

Is this cutoff problem mostly because owners disable the factory setting

It is, yes. I don’t remember what the factory set tilt-back speed is for each model, but I think it is 20 or 25km/h for some models, even on some of the modern ones that can do 3 times that on a full battery.

 

21 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Some companies leave more headroom and won't allow us to tap into as easily, while others allow the user to push right up and past that point. I don't know if gotway is any worse/better than the others.

Yes it is, that’s why I’ve been shouting about the issue with my head all red for the past few days... KS, IM and 9B won’t let you remove the top speed tilt-back on any of their wheels. And on them the top speed goes down as the battery depletes.

GW has a fixed limit that has to be changed for normal riding. And due to the poor usefulness and low maximum of the limit, most people recommend that you remove the limit completely. So most newbies do, since “the pro riders surely know better how to set up a new GW”.

21 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It seems that inno is trying to take gotways title for it tho.

What on earth do you mean? The guy who overleaned the V11 by accelerating “fast” (his own wording) at 52.5km/h? Every wheel can be overleaned 2.5km/h short of it’s max top speed, that’s not what I’m talking about here. I don’t think that kind of user behavior can be remedied by software. What could easily be remedied OTOH is an overlean from calmly reaching the top speed on a GW. Which is what happened to the guy in the video in the first post of this thread.

21 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Oddly we arent hearing much about it happening to KS

I am. 16X overleans used to be common news until it was established that the wheel is at it’s limits already 5km/h short of it’s advertised max speed. And now there are a few reports about overleaning the S18 due to the saggy 3p battery config.

But again, we’re not talking about overleaning due to aggressive riding. It’s a separate issue.

[onizukagto]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:56 PM, mrelwood said:

Having the option to turn off the tilt-back on a GW is simply a lethally wrong design decision. Having to use a third party app to set the tilt-back to speeds over 48km/h is another. And having no possibility of a tilt-back speed that gets lower with the battery charge is yet another. Together they make sure that most GW riders remove the tilt-back altogether.

 I’m pretty certain that every rider who has crashed from overspeeding on a GW would gladly have given up 10% of top speed if they had known it would one day save them from a full speed crash on pavement, and the following hospital stay, bills, sick leave from work, and being absent from life altogether for weeks or even months. We have seen so many pieces of evidence that a rider is simply not capable of making that decision before the crash.

 

 

The CHURCH OF GOTWAY demands its daily blood sacrifice.

All true GOTWAY believer will gladly road splat themselves though the gates of Valhalla.

They shall Ride Eternal! SHINY AND CHROME!

WITNESS MEE!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by onizukagto

[xiiijojjo]

7 hours ago, onizukagto said:

 

The CHURCH OF GOTWAY demands its daily blood sacrifice.

All true GOTWAY believer will gladly road splat themselves though the gates of Valhalla.

They shall Ride Eternal! SHINY AND CHROME!

WITNESS MEE!

 

 

 

 

That has got to be the single best and most accurate comment on the entire forum!

Us gotway riders are not right in the head and much of that could very well be from our numerous genetic defects leading to this infatuation with chasing the gates of Valhalla which will open to those who are truly faithful in Odin and come at it face first blasting past the 80% beeps. 

But i am definitely going to invest in a can of chrome spray paint as my RS HS is due to arrive tomorrow after 1+ year of excruciating and apoplectic pain over not having a wheel.

Edited November 25, 2020 by xiiijojjo

[Victor Solovjov]

Gotway is to blame for not making automatic adjustment of the tiltback moment depending on the battery discharge. But it's also Kingsong's and Inmotion's fault for not producing wheels with the same high top speed as Gotway. The rider has no choice of high-speed wheels, just one Gotway.

[Victor Solovjov]

On 11/18/2020 at 2:43 AM, mrelwood said:

Max tilt-back speed is 48km/h

Now I looked at the maximum speed of the tiltback in the eucworld app. That's 45 mph.

[Darrell Wesh]

3 hours ago, Victor Solovjov said:

Now I looked at the maximum speed of the tiltback in the eucworld app. That's 45 mph.

I dont think that one works. Only Gotway app can set tiltback and it’s max is like 30mph 

[atdlzpae]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I dont think that one works. Only Gotway app can set tiltback and it’s max is like 30mph

Tiltback in EucWorld works on my MSX.

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I dont think that one works. Only Gotway app can set tiltback and it’s max is like 30mph 

When riding the MSX 84V, I had set the tilt-back to 51-54km/h with DarknessBot. Worked as expected. Don’t know why the value still has to be a multiple of 3 though.

[I_Must_Bust]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:25 AM, Darrell Wesh said:

I dont think that one works. Only Gotway app can set tiltback and it’s max is like 30mph 

I could test tilt back settings on the tesla using EUCWorld by setting it to a low value. I had always just assumed it worked -- I haven't felt it happen yet since I don't push to those speeds. Not experienced enough to do so just now.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I should try hitting tilt back at lower speeds so I know what the wheel will do when I hit it for real 

[Bumblebees]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:56 PM, I_Must_Bust said:

I could test tilt back settings on the tesla using EUCWorld by setting it to a low value. I had always just assumed it worked -- I haven't felt it happen yet since I don't push to those speeds. Not experienced enough to do so just now.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I should try hitting tilt back at lower speeds so I know what the wheel will do when I hit it for real 

Good idea.  Experiencing a tiltback at high speeds for the first time is not fun.