EUCs and Winter!!!!!

[Planemo]

51 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

Just to be clear - is it ok to store a wheel in the (cold) garage as long as I’m not riding it?

Li-Ions are actually happiest when stored at low temps which is why I deliberately leave my wheels in the shed throughout winter. Anything down to -10 degC is fine.

I wouldn't ride (or charge) a wheel where the batts are soaked at that temp, but then I don't ride in winter anyway (well not anything less than +10 deg C).

When spring comes around I sometimes put the wheel in the house for at least 48hrs before charging if the ambient is only creeping over +10degC.

But I am very OCD about battery care

Edit: Just realised how old this thread is 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Planemo

[RockyTop]

53 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, King Paul said:

I find this to be untrue, I ride my wheel everyday the same distance 16 Miles one way and 16 Mike's back. In the mornings when it's below 45 degrees it takes me 70% battery. Now when I go home and it's 65 degrees out it only takes me 50% to go the same mileage. I have a 100% charge both times. The only difference is the temperature outside. 

Too many factors. I am not surprised of your results. I am guessing that the EUC is not as warm or recently charged when leaving in the morning. I am guessing that the EUC is warmer and more recently changed when you leave for home. The charger turns off after reaching full charge. Less activity less heat deep in the batteries. 

[mrelwood]

9 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

 

Too many factors. I am not surprised of your results. I am guessing that the EUC is not as warm or recently charged when leaving in the morning. I am guessing that the EUC is warmer and more recently changed when you leave for home. The charger turns off after reaching full charge. Less activity less heat deep in the batteries. 

1) The EUC chargers do not turn off when reaching full charge.

2) Li-ion batteries are much more ineffective when it’s cold outside, it’sa well known fact. I have a regular 55km route that I’ve ridden dozens of times. Things like tire pressure, tire model, daily wind, different riding feel, EUC model, etc. only play a small role in affecting the consumption (unless they are waaay off).

A colder temperature has constantly taken about 20% per 20 degrees •C off my range, for the full 5 years I’ve been riding (over 30000km). 20% per 10 degrees •C when it gets below freezing.

 The range with me on my V11 is in average 60km at room temperature, 50km at around +4•C, and 40km at about -7•C. This is despite riding much more carefully in the cold. The studded winter knobby takes just 5km off the range.

 The freezing temperature Riding usually happens in tightly packed snow, but it will surely take it’s toll. The factor would probably be close to linear -20% per -20•C with smooth roads.

[RockyTop]

1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

1) The EUC chargers do not turn off when reaching full charge.

2) Li-ion batteries are much more ineffective when it’s cold outside, it’sa well known fact. I have a regular 55km route that I’ve ridden dozens of times. Things like tire pressure, tire model, daily wind, different riding feel, EUC model, etc. only play a small role in affecting the consumption (unless they are waaay off).

A colder temperature has constantly taken about 20% per 20 degrees •C off my range, for the full 5 years I’ve been riding (over 30000km). 20% per 10 degrees •C when it gets below freezing.

 The range with me on my V11 is in average 60km at room temperature, 50km at around +4•C, and 40km at about -7•C. This is despite riding much more carefully in the cold. The studded winter knobby takes just 5km off the range.

 The freezing temperature Riding usually happens in tightly packed snow, but it will surely take it’s toll. The factor would probably be close to linear -20% per -20•C with smooth roads.

Ok but the charger doesn’t continue to charge a battery that is charged. In other words the batteries become cold and inactive. 
 

Not disagreeing with the rest. We stated with, “if you keep the batteries warm”.

[mrelwood]

23 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Ok but the charger doesn’t continue to charge a battery that is charged. In other words the batteries become cold and inactive.

The charging current slows down into a crawl, but a tiny current will flow still many many hours after the chargers had turned green. It’s not a gas tank that you simply fill until it’s full.

23 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Not disagreeing with the rest. We stated with, “if you keep the batteries warm”.

Well, if you keep the batteries warm, you’re riding inside. There’s not nearly enough room for insulation that would keep the batteries warm, so they always cool down in the cold.

I’m sorry if I misunderstood the topic completely!

[Ronin Ryder]

A lots of wheels cant handle snow (and salt) due to poor water resistance....would be curious to know your feedback on which wheel you guys think are ok in the snow/slush. 

[Tawpie]

31 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

ok in the snow/slush. 

I put two/three hundred miles on my 16X in the snow (some, but not much slush, it's far too slippery) and made certain to thaw and dry it vertically. It's no worse for the wear. I don't ride it on salted roads if I can help it, I don't know what is in the grit mixture where I do my snow riding but it doesn't seem to melt anything.

This year I'm tormenting an S18... so far so good.

Paging @winterwheel for a more authoritative answer!

Edited January 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[King Paul]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Are you sure you're not going faster when it's less pleasant outside? Isn't 45F winter parka weather for folks in the Golden State?

Oh no, I have tested with keeping my average speed exactly the same and going the same speed all the way both ways. The only difference is the temp.

I am in northern California and yes that is cold for the weaklings that live here. 

[King Paul]

3 hours ago, RockyTop said:

 

Too many factors. I am not surprised of your results. I am guessing that the EUC is not as warm or recently charged when leaving in the morning. I am guessing that the EUC is warmer and more recently changed when you leave for home. The charger turns off after reaching full charge. Less activity less heat deep in the batteries. 

The euc is probably 75 degrees when I leave in the morning and at 100% charge I store it inside my house. And when I leave in the afternoon it is also inside and stored at 72 degrees and also 100%.

[RockyTop]

31 minutes ago, King Paul said:

The euc is probably 75 degrees when I leave in the morning and at 100% charge I store it inside my house. And when I leave in the afternoon it is also inside and stored at 72 degrees and also 100%.

Good info.  

Quick recap: The original poster asked if EUCs were safe to use in the cold. 

I replied that they were less efficient but safe. listen for the beep. Winterwheel said that if you start riding with a warm wheel and ride non stop you should not have a problem. Using the battery keeps it from getting too cold. 

I questioned: Is it really less efficient or is the battery capacity unaccessible AKA battery sag. So to answer the question you would have to ride to work and then not charge the battery. You would have to wait several hours in warm temperatures to see if the charge goes back up to 50% without charging. It is very common for my battery to drop to 50% while riding in the cold then come back up to 65% after sitting in a warm room. 

[mrelwood]

 

49 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I questioned: Is it really less efficient or is the battery capacity unaccessible AKA battery sag. So to answer the question you would have to ride to work and then not charge the battery. You would have to wait several hours in warm temperatures to see if the charge goes back up to 50% without charging.

I have only tried to test for this a few times, when going to my friend’s 10 miles away. In the summer the battery is at 78-80% when I get there, and it recovers for a percent or two.

 In the winter the battery is at around 50-60% (probably not fully linear percentage), and when I leave six hours later, it has again recovered only for a few percents.

 So it seems that the additional loss in the cold doesn’t recover.

[Tawpie]

35 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

So it seems that the additional loss in the cold doesn’t recover.

and that makes sense because the chemistry doesn't work as well when it's colder—so it depletes its reagents faster to produce the same amount of work!

[Funky]

Wanted to repost as it's also about winter. Could help someone..

 

My dad studded his CST C-1488 tire for winter.. He used drill to make holes in tire (Not through, doh)  I will doo the same for next winter. Can make any tire studded like this.

Ridding in -10-15c.. He said that riding on ice is like on asphalt. If there's (that jucky, mucky wet snow) then it slips still.. But over normal hard snow, it's the same as on asphalt.

He used these studs:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003515679926.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.639738f5LaFIMb&algo_pvid=335f8040-1f45-442f-879d-77fe5ec97dae&algo_exp_id=335f8040-1f45-442f-879d-77fe5ec97dae-10&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000026135770156"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B1.99%3B-1%3BEUR+1.00%40salePrice%3BEUR%3Bsearch-mainSearch

Video how to:

Use simple empty screwdriver with no bits or small barrel bit.. To put the stud inside..

Edited January 20, 2022 by Funky

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 

I have only tried to test for this a few times, when going to my friend’s 10 miles away. In the summer the battery is at 78-80% when I get there, and it recovers for a percent or two.

 In the winter the battery is at around 50-60% (probably not fully linear percentage), and when I leave six hours later, it has again recovered only for a few percents.

 So it seems that the additional loss in the cold doesn’t recover.

Ok, So My results must be from demanding too much too fast.  AKA ,Actual battery sag not from the cold. 

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, Funky said:

Wanted to repost as it's also about winter. Could help someone..

 

My dad studded his CST C-1488 tire for winter.. He used drill to make holes in tire (Not through, doh)  I will doo the same for next winter. Can make any tire studded like this.

Ridding in -10-15c.. He said that riding on ice is like on asphalt. If there's (that jucky, mucky wet snow) then it slips still.. But over normal hard snow, it's the same as on asphalt.

He used these studs:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003515679926.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.639738f5LaFIMb&algo_pvid=335f8040-1f45-442f-879d-77fe5ec97dae&algo_exp_id=335f8040-1f45-442f-879d-77fe5ec97dae-10&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000026135770156"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B1.99%3B-1%3BEUR+1.00%40salePrice%3BEUR%3Bsearch-mainSearch

Video how to:

Use simple empty screwdriver with no bits or small barrel bit.. To put the stud inside..

Those are a much better option than the ones I used! Even the smallest screw in stud is slightly too tall even for a knobby.

[winterwheel]

18 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I put two/three hundred miles on my 16X in the snow (some, but not much slush, it's far too slippery) and made certain to thaw and dry it vertically. It's no worse for the wear. I don't ride it on salted roads if I can help it, I don't know what is in the grit mixture where I do my snow riding but it doesn't seem to melt anything.

This year I'm tormenting an S18... so far so good.

Paging @winterwheel for a more authoritative answer!

The good news is we have all manner of wheels riding in winter here these days... Sherman, V11, S-18, RS, 18XL, 16X, T3,... probably I'm missing some.

No one has any complaints about any of them in any conditions that I'm aware of .

My 1st-batch RS had a bearing go after just a week of snow riding last year. So far the replaced bearing is holding up although I'm only riding occasionally this winter. Yesterday evening I used it to do 12kms of glare ice roads in -17c to get to an appointment, no issue at all with my plain old summer tire.

I'll reiterate icetrax or equivalent on the shoes are a mandatory accessory for me, allowing mounting and dismounting with confidence and ease from super-slick ice surfaces. I think I may be the only one who does that, you all are missing out, they make riding icy roads a breeze.

 

 

[Funky]

20 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

My 1st-batch RS had a bearing go after just a week of snow riding last year.

Same here.. ks16s v2. Bearing started to make noise. (Was not waterproofed..) After change, could see that there where water/dirt in it.. Little bit rust.

After change +waterproofing (Thick grease around axle) Everything is fine. Daily riding to/from job.

[Foo Barstein]

Any recommendations for gloves for temperatures around freezing that include wrist guards?  i'm currently pulling gloves over my guards - it works, but it's uncomfortable and I prefer less bulky gloves.

[Hellkitten]

39 minutes ago, Foo Barstein said:

Any recommendations for gloves for temperatures around freezing that include wrist guards?  i'm currently pulling gloves over my guards - it works, but it's uncomfortable and I prefer less bulky gloves.

I’m doing the opposite. I bought a large pair of guards that fit over my gloves/mittens, then the sliders are on the outside. 

[Darrell Wesh]

16 hours ago, Foo Barstein said:

Any recommendations for gloves for temperatures around freezing that include wrist guards?  i'm currently pulling gloves over my guards - it works, but it's uncomfortable and I prefer less bulky gloves.

Why would you put gloves OVER the wrist guards? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of sliders 

[Funky]

5 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Why would you put gloves OVER the wrist guards? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of sliders 

Yeah, kinda loses it's purpose. (Still protects from impact..) Simply lose the guards. More comfy and can move freely, much better.  jk.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Funky

[Foo Barstein]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:27 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

Why would you put gloves OVER the wrist guards? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of sliders 

My gloves don't fit well under - maybe hands are not small enough.  The main purpose, from my perspective, is not to break bones, so performs as expected.  But I'll change my request: any thin/warm glove recommendations for going under the guards?!  Preferably with an electrostatic pointer finger for fiddling with phone while riding fast.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Foo Barstein

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, Foo Barstein said:

My gloves don't fit well under - maybe hands are not small enough.  The main purpose, from my perspective, is not to break bones, so performs as expected.  But I'll change my request: any thin/warm glove recommendations for going under the guards?!  Preferably with an electrostatic pointer finger for fiddling with phone while riding fast.

diy + scissors = Electrostatic pointer.  Little hole won't hurt anyone. xD I think it would be easier to get bigger guards for winter.. I have two 1 bigger, 1 smaller for summer.

Isn't there some kind of glue that reacts to phone screens.. Could use that on any glove, for that 1 finger.. So you can finger the phone?

Check youtube: "diy touchscreen gloves for winter" Maybe helps?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Funky

[Tawpie]

35 minutes ago, Foo Barstein said:

thin/warm glove recommendations

Let me know when you find this! Bonus points if the solution protects against finger abrasions.

35 minutes ago, Foo Barstein said:

an electrostatic pointer finger

I got a different (no longer available) brand of this stuff, it worked well. I didn't use it enough to verify durability though, most of these kinds of things are very short lived.

GloveTacts Ultra Thin Conductive Touch Screen Stickers for Gloves https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08QNHMBNZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_J0NRWGGS865KXC7RCT24?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

These things work well too

homEdge Universal Stylus Pen in Bulk, Set of 20 Packs Portable Stylus Pens with 3.5mm Jack, Compatible with All Device with Capacitive Touch Screen – 10 Color https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07F41PZ2B/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_A31KKRXV1Q6B881ZMS6Y?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Edited January 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

These might be thin enough to fit under guards.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Gloves-Men-Women-Waterproof/dp/B09FPSCH73/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1M3VA5LN4MXE7&keywords=heated+gloves&qid=1643239761&sprefix=heated+%2Caps%2C861&sr=8-10

Winter Gloves for Men and Women - Waterproof Warm Glove for Cold Weather, Thermal Gloves with Touch Screen Finger

4.1 out of 5 stars 292 ratings

 

#1 Best Seller in Billiard Gloves

Price:

$14.99