EUCs and Winter!!!!!

[CharlesRomer]

Hey Guys

I have an inmotion v8 and wondering how well mine and any other EUCs will do during winter. I live in the UK and temps get to 0 my wheel doesn't heat up at all and when I'm riding at a steady 15mph it gets kinda cold. Is this bad?

Do I need to buy a better tire for winter or will my normal tire be ok for pavements and roads. 

Appreciate the help.

[BruceCLin]

I rode through the last winter everyday going to work on my V8. Rain, snow, salt, it doesn't matter. Stock tire works just fine if you take extra care on snow and ice.

[RockyTop]

The wheels do fairly well in the cold. The batteries are not nearly as efficient in the cold. Listen for the beep warnings. The wheel will have less battery available at any given time. 
Tires? Some people use bicycles ice spikes in their tires for the ice. When riding on questionable surfaces you will want to stay centered over your wheel and not hard lean when turning. 

[winterwheel]

I ride in the winter with no cold-related issues except I never leave the wheel or store the wheel outside in winter.

Several of us ride all winter long using the tire that came with the wheel, this works fine except you have to be very gentle when turning on very icy surfaces.

The biggest logistical issue is that snow builds up on your footwear and the pedals every time you step off and on the wheel. Also, the wheel does pretty well on ice until you have to step off for a light or something; unless your shoes have grip you'll fall over at that point. For these reasons I wear grips on my shoes over the winter months.

I did a winter-related video on some of this last year:

There's a few other videos there of riding in (sometimes extreme) winter conditions.

 

[mrelwood]

Just don’t leave your wheel outside in the cold, as there are a few important rules how cold batteries must be handled and charged. During riding the battery keeps itself sufficiently warm, at least in UK.

Worth remembering that when you see a dry road and want to blast it out like you do in the summer (oh right, V8... ), the battery still has much less capacity and more importantly, power. Overlean comes a good bit sooner.

[winterwheel]

I'm curious as to how the wheel would have less capacity/power if it is maintaining its temperature.

[RockyTop]

15 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

I'm curious as to how the wheel would have less capacity/power if it is maintaining its temperature.

It should not have less capacity if it maintains its temperature.  I think of batteries as a tank filled with a sponge.  If you drain the tank from the bottom too quickly it will dry up while the sponge is still saturated. If you leave the tank alone for a while the saturation will balance out and you can drain from the bottom again. The colder the batteries get the slower they will balance back out. Cold weather causes the batteries to balance slower. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by RockyTop

[winterwheel]

Cold weather causes the batteries to balance slower, but only if one allows the batteries to get colder, no? I've been riding for years now, I'm a heavy guy by wheeling standards, and I book it all the time on my wheels in the winter when weather permits. Never had a cutout.

[RockyTop]

7 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Cold weather causes the batteries to balance slower, but only if one allows the batteries to get colder, no? I've been riding for years now, I'm a heavy guy by wheeling standards, and I book it all the time on my wheels in the winter when weather permits. Never had a cutout.

Yes, As I stated before. It should not have less capacity if the batteries maintains its ( warm ) temperature. .......I added one words to my previous statement. 
 

If you want to get too technical, the wheel as a whole will be less efficient at lower temperatures just as it would at very high temperatures.  Magnets stop working when they get too hot

The numbers would be small and hard to measure given the human factors.

Edited October 28, 2020 by RockyTop

[Scottie888]

This is my 1st winter on wheels. Wondering if its recommended to lower tire pressure in cold weather? I think MTB riders lower their tires psi in snow conditions but what about non snow roads in the cold ie. -5c to 0c?

[winterwheel]

I think its well understood that batteries won't perform well when they get cold or hot.

The point is that this doesn't really apply if you start with a warm battery in the winter and keep it that way by riding it.

I have found, for example, that my ACM2 maintains its (warm) temperature down to about -20. After that the ambient temperature is too much and the batteries start to cool down, even with a 240lb guy riding it.

I check every wheel I ride in the winter to see if I can find this break-even point, where ambient temperatures exceed the ability of batteries to keep themselves warm while under load.

[RockyTop]

Just to be clear, Winterwheel is our forum expert on winter wheel usage if his name did not give it away.
@winterwheel Do you do anything special to get extra tire traction? Have you ever had snow and ice build up in the wheel well and cause problems? 

[winterwheel]

The snow and ice build up and make a massive mess when you bring the wheel indoors, causing much domestic discord and giving your place of work thoughts of banning your device from the building.  At both ends I have a bucket where the wheel stays between outdoor excursions. In terms of technical issues, nothing so far.

Traction-wise the basic tire performs well enough on all the wheels I've tried. That said, I put a knobby tire on my (backup) 16" ACM2 last year and that made it a blast to do higher-speed off runs through the unpaved paths of the forest. Fantastic when there's a bit of a snow-base  on the trail.

There seem to be lots of winter wheelers out there, many much more knowledgeable  than me, I'm just a bit more outspoken about the winter possibilities than most. The number one pushback I got in the early days was 'yah, but you can't ride it in the winter' as if that was a brilliant and crushing point against wheeling in general. It turns out that, if you prepare properly and are careful about process, these things can be at least as much if not more fun in the winter.

Edited October 29, 2020 by winterwheel

[winterwheel]

Humorous follow up -- I had a student this year whose wife would only allow him to own a wheel if he promised to ride it work *including in the winter*. To his credit, he didn't allow this to stop him and he's already made his first few commutes on his 16x in some wintery/icy weather conditions that blew through last week.

Edited October 29, 2020 by winterwheel

[RockyTop]

I think you are being a bit modest. Great tips in the video. And as I have said before you made us look pretty good in the local news video. 

[Scottie888]

Was a bit nicer yesterday (~5c) so took the S18 for ride. Wet grass was ok but the familiar trails turned muddy & that was a mistake. Tried to ride on the grassy shoulders but still couldn't manage to avoid the mud & slide off a few times. What a mess so no more muddy trails for me. Def learnt my lesson!

@winterwheel it was definitely great to be out riding after last weeks cold spell. Cowtown didn't fare much better than Edmonton. Will see if the weather holds later today for a ride🤞

[winterwheel]

 

9 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Was a bit nicer yesterday (~5c) so took the S18 for ride. Wet grass was ok but the familiar trails turned muddy & that was a mistake. Tried to ride on the grassy shoulders but still couldn't manage to avoid the mud & slide off a few times. What a mess so no more muddy trails for me. Def learnt my lesson!

@winterwheel it was definitely great to be out riding after last weeks cold spell. Cowtown didn't fare much better than Edmonton. Will see if the weather holds later today for a ride🤞

I'm interested to see how suspension wheels do in winter. My suspicion is they may not do as well because of the higher pedal height, lower would seem to be better if you're trying to hold it steady on a slippery surface.  I have an S18 and an EX coming in soon, as well as  access to a V11, so we should be able to run some good tests on that. There's another guy here experienced with studding up the tires, we might try some experiments with that as well.

We're looking forward to having some kind of meetup with Calgary folk some time next year, long past time for that I think.

 

[Scottie888]

5 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

 

I'm interested to see how suspension wheels do in winter. My suspicion is they may not do as well because of the higher pedal height, lower would seem to be better if you're trying to hold it steady on a slippery surface.  I have an S18 and an EX coming in soon, as well as  access to a V11, so we should be able to run some good tests on that. There's another guy here experienced with studding up the tires, we might try some experiments with that as well.

We're looking forward to having some kind of meetup with Calgary folk some time next year, long past time for that I think.

 

Stock tires are slippery as hell on mud. Haven't tried a full snow blast as yet but studded tires will be amazing. Eons ago back in Ont & way wayyy before the age of PEVs, I remember studding my sled with Ti screws for the groomed trails & frozen lakes. No issues with traction for sure.

Normally on cold & esp windy days, I take out the Mten3. Its just so nice to be able to go outside for some fresh air. This is my 1st year wheeling so its a learning experience in more ways than one.

I've a few guys I ride with (mix of wheels & esk8s) & its been incredible adventuring & discovering Calgary. I think we have like 1k klicks of paved bike paths going to almost every part of the city (& then some). Will be awesome to hook up with you guys here or even in DEADmonton😁

[Darrell Wesh]

On 10/28/2020 at 1:00 PM, mrelwood said:

Just don’t leave your wheel outside in the cold, as there are a few important rules how cold batteries must be handled and charged. During riding the battery keeps itself sufficiently warm, at least in UK.

Worth remembering that when you see a dry road and want to blast it out like you do in the summer (oh right, V8... ), the battery still has much less capacity and more importantly, power. Overlean comes a good bit sooner.

On the gotways the beeps come earlier when it’s cold outside. My Nikola beeps at 39mph in 80 degrees and 36mph in sub 30degrees Fahrenheit. But that could just also be air resistance right ?

Edited October 30, 2020 by Darrell Wesh

[winterwheel]

12 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

On the gotways the beeps come earlier when it’s cold outside. My Nikola beeps at 39mph in 80 degrees and 36mph in sub 30degrees Fahrenheit. But that could just also be air resistance right ?

So it would seem, cold winter air is quite a bit denser than warm summer air. 

[King Paul]

On 10/28/2020 at 10:30 AM, RockyTop said:

Yes, As I stated before. It should not have less capacity if the batteries maintains its ( warm ) temperature. .......I added one words to my previous statement. 
 

If you want to get too technical, the wheel as a whole will be less efficient at lower temperatures just as it would at very high temperatures.  Magnets stop working when they get too hot

The numbers would be small and hard to measure given the human factors.

I find this to be untrue, I ride my wheel everyday the same distance 16 Miles one way and 16 Mike's back. In the mornings when it's below 45 degrees it takes me 70% battery. Now when I go home and it's 65 degrees out it only takes me 50% to go the same mileage. I have a 100% charge both times. The only difference is the temperature outside. 

[Darrell Wesh]

3 minutes ago, King Paul said:

I find this to be untrue, I ride my wheel everyday the same distance 16 Miles one way and 16 Mike's back. In the mornings when it's below 45 degrees it takes me 70% battery. Now when I go home and it's 65 degrees out it only takes me 50% to go the same mileage. I have a 100% charge both times. The only difference is the temperature outside. 

And your tire pressure lol

[King Paul]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

And your tire pressure lol

Yah the tire pressure varies a little. 

[Tawpie]

51 minutes ago, King Paul said:

when it's below 45 degrees it takes me 70% battery. Now when I go home and it's 65 degrees out it only takes me 50% to go the same mileage

Are you sure you're not going faster when it's less pleasant outside? Isn't 45F winter parka weather for folks in the Golden State?

[lazybones99]

Just to be clear - is it ok to store a wheel in the (cold) garage as long as I’m not riding it?