ElectriQ User Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Hi guys! I just sold my Gotway Tesla few days ago (amazing wheel but i want more) and i'm searching for a new one. I'm oscillating between KingSong 16X, Gotway Nikola 1600Wh, Gotway MSuper X 84V / 1600Wh. The KingSong 16X it is more atractive for me but i'm not 100% decided. I saw that the KingSong 16X have some problems with tilting and wobbling; the Nikola has problems with the noise fan, super loud start up sound (i hate that so much!) and i don't like the messy wire management, looks cheap inside, but with all this, many people say that it is a real pleasure to ride the Nikola, one of the best wheel to ride; and the Gotway MSuper X 84V / 1600Wh, at this wheel i do not like the TO220 Mosfets (am i right?) i don not trust them! and i hate de manufacturing issues, like misaligned wheel, i saw many cases... I want to be SAFE at 45-50Km/h. I'm not a fast rider but i like to have a margin of safety. Usualy i ride at 35-42 Km/h or slower on good roads, very rarely i hit the 45-47Km/h and not for long time. To have an ideea, i drived my Tesla 3000 Km with strong/hard pedals and feeled good. Opinions? Suggestions? Sorry for my english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted August 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2019 All three wheels you mentioned have TO-247s (MSX too). The 16X is limited to 50kph and with the inflated KS speed readings, maybe more like ~45kph in reality. So it might be too slow for you (not faster than the Tesla). Everyone says the Nikola rides great and better than the MSX, but the MSX is better for offroad and locking your feet in with the high and angled pedals. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurokinetik Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 The Nikola does have the angled pedals, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 7 hours ago, neurokinetik said: The Nikola does have the angled pedals, too. How steep an angle would that be? Every wheel has angled pedals, but my MSX had 13 degrees on one side, 15 on the other. 9 hours ago, ElectriQ User said: (amazing wheel but i want more) Can you specify what is it that you want more of? Speed? Forget the 16X. Comfort? Forget the MSX. Silence? Forget the Nikola (or remove/modify the speakers). Firmware updates? Forget the Gotways. Tire? Any of them will do! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: Can you specify what is it that you want more of? Speed? Forget the 16X. Comfort? Forget the MSX. Silence? Forget the Nikola (or remove/modify the speakers). Firmware updates? Forget the Gotways. Tire? Any of them will do! I want bigger pedals, wider tire but not like Z10 tire and more range than Tesla. Safety is very important and i want to be shure that i will not crash at 45Km/h because of the wheel, not because of me, (with 50%-60% battery) from time to time, not for long. My Tesla had the speedlimit/tilt back set to 42Km/h most of the time, but it was able to reach 45-47Km/h @55% battery for short time without crash. The KingSong 16x it is able to reach 45Km/h on flat road @55% battery and keeping me safe? The Gotway Nikola can do this in the same conditions? I have 91 Kg fully equipped, including full-face helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ElectriQ User said: I want bigger pedals Forget the MSX then. Quote wider tire but not like Z10 tire and more range than Tesla. All mentioned wheels have a 3” tire and (usually) a lot larger battery, so you’ve picked the correct contenders. Quote The KingSong 16x it is able to reach 45Km/h on flat road @55% battery and keeping me safe? The Gotway Nikola can do this in the same conditions? Sorry, no EUC can ”Keep you safe”. You are riding at moped top speed range standing on a single wheel, leaning forward. Every EUC can be overleaned already at much lower speeds, and by a much lighter rider. You have to ride safely by yourself, and make only smart riding decisions. I weigh 94kg + gear, and I commonly ride at 45km/h on my 84V MSX at 50% battery. Not a single high speed crash during my 7500km on the MSX. I can’t see why either 16X or Nikola couldn’t do that just as well. The key is to keep one’s knees soft for bumps and only accelerate peacefully at those speeds and battery levels. Points that might affect the decision between 16X and Nikola: - Nikola start-up tone is very loud, and many owners are annoyed by it. - Nikola side pads must be installed by oneself, and they are too thick for many riders. - 16x is more compact in size. - 16X top speed of 50km/h is in reality about 45km/h. - Nothing beats the Kingsong trolley handle. - Nikola will probably get scratched up fast. (- Not sure about this, but didn’t one of them get bad reviews on the headlight?) The second batch of 16X has an upgraded tire that should eliminate all 1st batch tire issues and ride very nicely. Edited August 22, 2019 by mrelwood 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 7 hours ago, mrelwood said: Sorry, no EUC can ”Keep you safe”. You are riding at moped top speed range standing on a single wheel, leaning forward. Every EUC can be overleaned already at much lower speeds, and by a much lighter rider. You have to ride safely by yourself, and make only smart riding decisions. Points that might affect the decision between 16X and Nikola: - Nikola start-up tone is very loud, and many owners are annoyed by it. - Nikola side pads must be installed by oneself, and they are too thick for many riders. - 16x is more compact in size. - 16X top speed of 50km/h is in reality about 45km/h. - Nothing beats the Kingsong trolley handle. - Nikola will probably get scratched up fast. (- Not sure about this, but didn’t one of them get bad reviews on the headlight?) The second batch of 16X has an upgraded tire that should eliminate all 1st batch tire issues and ride very nicely. I am not an aggressive rider. Every time i listen the wheel, tilting back or the alarms/beeps, i am not pushing my luck Like i said, i like to have a margin of safety. Thanks for the points about 16X and Nikola. The second batch of 16X with the new tire it is out for sale? @US69, do you know? There is someone who did a real range test with 16X? Only @Marty Backe do this kind of test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 minute ago, ElectriQ User said: There is someone who did a real range test with 16X? Only @Marty Backe do this kind of test? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 33 minutes ago, ElectriQ User said: I am not an aggressive rider. Every time i listen the wheel, tilting back or the alarms/beeps, i am not pushing my luck Like i said, i like to have a margin of safety. Thanks for the points about 16X and Nikola. The second batch of 16X with the new tire it is out for sale? @US69, do you know? There is someone who did a real range test with 16X? Only @Marty Backe do this kind of test? At this point in time, I believe I'm the only person who is doing 100-percent to 2-percent range tests on multiple wheels on the same track. I'll probably have the 16X in October. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 @Nic, i just saw that review, range looks good. @Marty Backe, thats why i like your reviews, because you stress them good, keeping the pattern, especially on the mountain. I hope the 16X will pass the test . Until October i think i will have a wheel from Gotway or KingSong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurokinetik Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 15 hours ago, mrelwood said: How steep an angle would that be? Every wheel has angled pedals, but my MSX had 13 degrees on one side, 15 on the other. By my measurement, looks like 12.5 degrees on each side. Compared to the KS-18L at 4 degrees each side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I don't have either. Just wondering what feels better at speed. 16x3inch or 18x2.5inch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) alcatraz: With incensed wheel size you always fell more comfortable at higher speeds... in my opinion: 16X it's for "playing" and more adventurous people... 18'' or 22'' it's for those who are looking for range and stamina... Anyway, I get easily more than 100km range on my KS18XL...since I don't ride very fast () (I keep a log with charging date and total mileage ridden between charges) Edited August 23, 2019 by Meserias spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 On 8/22/2019 at 12:35 AM, ElectriQ User said: Hi guys! I just sold my Gotway Tesla few days ago (amazing wheel but i want more) and i'm searching for a new one. I'm oscillating between KingSong 16X, Gotway Nikola 1600Wh, Gotway MSuper X 84V / 1600Wh. The KingSong 16X it is more atractive for me but i'm not 100% decided. Where will you be ordering from? AliExpress has good prices on MSX, Nikola and 18XL. They are all good wheels. The 18XL will give you best range and a good feel when riding. It has a good tilt back and is a safe and a mature product. I do not feel MSX and Nikola are safe at 45kmh because you will have trouble knowing if you are going too fast until you hear the 5 beeps. Which you might or might not hear. If you are riding on a bike path next to a road with traffic at 50% battery and you reach an incline you might get the beeps at 45kmh. The MSX is more mature product than the Nikola. I ride like you, 35-40kmh. Sometimes I will reach 45kmh and sometimes 50kmh but only for a very short time. If I would recommend between 18XL, MSX and Nikola I would say 18XL. If you add 100V wheels I would say Nikola 100V. The Nikola 1845Wh 100V is in it's own category and you will have all the comfort and safety you need, great range and also you will be far away from the top speed (which is fun to play with). 45kmh is 50kmh tomorrow and 55kmh the day after that. One speed is safe and the other is an accident waiting to happen. If I could do it again, I would still choose the MSX. But to others I always recommend 18XL. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 @Mike Sacristan, why not 16X? You have one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, ElectriQ User said: @Mike Sacristan, why not 16X? You have one It has not yet proven itself to me and I would never recommend it to someone else unless they explicitly ask for those priorities. When trying my friends 16X last week I got front/back oscillation at 47kmh. I got a random tilt at 43kmh. I got no tilt at 50kmh (or did I?). The stock tire will take you all over the place. I don't know if I trust it over 40kmh. So my answer to you was based on you having owned a Tesla and what would fit you as a new wheel. You said you wanted to be safe. I would also not recommend such an immature wheel from AliExpress as they will provide you with no after sales support which might be needed on such a wheel. Any problems with an MSX, 18XL or Nikola can be resolved with a dispute. The 16X is a problem wheel and it will continue to be one until it no longer is. For me it is no problem as it is 100% exactly what I wanted. A fun ride that gives me a feeling of freedom and floating with decent speed and good range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 You have oscillations and tilting even with the new firmware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, ElectriQ User said: You have oscillations and tilting even with the new firmware? Have not tried yet on my wheel as I received it yesterday late afternoon and did not feel like putting on body armor and trying 50kmh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 If speed/range/stability is important, why not an MSX 100V? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said: Have not tried yet on my wheel as I received it yesterday late afternoon and did not feel like putting on body armor and trying 50kmh. I'm waiting your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) if you want the biggest of speed buffers, great range and the wide 3” tire, Go Nikola 100V. You will be traveling faster than you think and feel completely stable doing it. I know of at least 10 Nikola 100V owners in NYC and aside from the startup sound, cant find fault with it. The 84V should perform similarly to the 100V, but will fall a bit short on acceleration and top speed (you’ll hear the 80% beep much sooner around ~32 MPH, weight dependent, 100V around 38 MPH) And yes, KS wheels reported speed is lower than actual, per many GPS comparisons. about 10% on my 18S, 15-20% on newer KS wheels, which impact the mileage traveled as well. There is a whole thread dedicated to this in the KingSong section. Gotway reported speed is about spot-on to the GPS (35.4 MPH on app, 35.0 MPH on GPS). edit- here is the link to KS speed/mileage reporting issues. Edited August 23, 2019 by Ben Kim 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 5 hours ago, ir_fuel said: If speed/range/stability is important, why not an MSX 100V? Unless you get a custom mod from the likes of EUCservice (Daniel is a cool guy) it will fall short on range with only 1230Wh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Ben Kim said: Unless you get a custom mod from the likes of EUCservice (Daniel is a cool guy) it will fall short on range with only 1230Wh. Or AliExpress / Intelligent Walking Store / Green and Fashion Travaling Shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 10 hours ago, ElectriQ User said: You have oscillations and tilting even with the new firmware? I did some slow acceleration to 45 kmh today. No problems. 8 hours ago, ElectriQ User said: I'm waiting your opinion It's an awesome wheel. I love the way it rides. I did 60km on it today. Battery went down to 45%. 70kg riding weight and 31 PSI. A bit of a rough ride but I want to feel as much as possible / collect as much data and impressions as possible. After 10km I traded with my friend Petra and got on her Tesla. It was impossible to ride. I normally ride an MSX and I can ride her Tesla no problem. But after riding the 16X for 2 days it was very difficult for me to ride the Tesla properly and I was leaning and tilting side to side all over the place. My brain and body were confused. It was also very hard for her to tide the 16X. This was when I realised that riding a 16X is inverted from riding a regular EUC. On a regular EUC you move your upper body and the wheel moves under you and aligns with your upper body. On the 16X the wheel moves under you and your upper body aligns with the wheel. They steer differently and balance differently. If you want a faster Tesla get a Nikola+. If you want a new experience get a 16X. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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