Total newbie (pre buying) advice needed please :)

[Mini.mina]

Hi

My name is Amina from Cambridge U.K. Totally new to the EUC world. I saw someone using one near the Cambridge Science Park (are you on here?) and I was fascinated at the device! I mean it looks super cool!

Heres my situation:

I got a new job in London! I was debating on buying a fold up cycle and then I saw the EUC and wanted to learn more. This is going to be my daily commute:

home to train station: 4 miles - Kings cross to work - 3 miles. Round trip (that I expect to use EUC for) 14 miles per day.

Questions:

1. Are there any restrictions on using a device like this? Will the police stop me?

2. What one to buy? - Money isn't a restriction, I have seen people recommend trying a cheap one first before committing to an expensive one. Is there a good all rounder to invest in? (i.e good first buy and also no need to upgrade for a long time)

3. Key features: I would like it to have a handle to help me to easily transport the device from the station/ upstairs etc. With this in mind nothing too heavy.

4. How long does the battery last? Do people charge up at work?

5. What are the total minimum MUST HAVE safety gear? I have seen people suited and booted and then those with no safety gear.

6. Do people get the extra warranty on these?

 

Any other important information you think I should know would be greatly appreciated 

 

Thanks

 

 

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Mini.mina said:

Questions:

1. Are there any restrictions on using a device like this? Will the police stop me?

Yes. It's illegal and the police can confiscate the EUC. Afaik.

But here are many riders from the UK - so they can give you more details...

[Smoother]

Welcome.  I ride frequently in Cambridge but never by the Science Park (had to look it up).  I've never seen another wheel in Cambridge.

@Chriull is correct, they are illegal to use on public land, roads, pavement in the UK.  There are many riders but we are all outlaws.  Buy one, use it, enjoy it but be aware it could be confiscated, you could be fined, and you could get points on your driving license (you are operating an un-licensed, un-insured, un-road worthy vehicle so points are possible).

Having said that, Some of us have been riding for years without a problem; and problems are few and far between, but i cannot make any guarantees YMMV as they say..  I personally make my self invisible when I see police around, It just doesn't pay to take unnecessary risks.  It just takes one cop with a bee in his bonnet to ruin your day. But I ride solely for pleasure so if I have to dismount and linger in the shadows for a few minutes, until the coast is clear, no damage done.  If i was trying to catch a train that might be a different story.

Also, bear in mind that these things generally go slower (or have to be ridden slower for safety reasons) than the posted speed limit (London's 20mph limit excepted) so if you have to ride on the street it can be quite harrowing to have a constant stream of cars passing feet from your right shoulder, or closer.  It's not the same as on a bike as one suddenly becomes acutely aware of the possibility of a face plant when falling under a car becomes an option, because you have no front wheel to lean on.  Riding on the pavement in London (illegal everywhere) might also be challenging due to the sheer volume of pedestrians (the walking dead, I call them) and you have had no idea how randomly people walk until you have tried riding an EUC past them.  Not trying to put you off, just trying to avoid the "but nobody told me!" scenario.

If you still want to give it a go, respond, and advice on your other questions will follow.

And...I can come over and train you.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Smoother

[LanghamP]

Your other legal option is a bicycle which I don't recommend. I subscribe to several bike magazines and apparently London has seen a dramatic rise in bike thefts (and scooter thefts) over the past years.

Here's a map of hotspots of reported thefts, and probably true bike thefts are somewhere north of 80,000 per year, because less than 1 out of 10 bike thefts are reported.

https://www.yellowjersey.co.uk/the-draft/bicycle-theft-london/

It's ludicrous that EUCs aren't allowed in London, as the compact EUC is so much handier than any bicycle. I've used both on public transportation and the bike is just exhausting compared to the EUC, plus you cannot store it inside.

The foldable eScooter is another (legal) option, especially as the present generation with a much bigger front wheel has come out.

Interestingly, the small front wheel is cited as the major reason for eScooter crashes, to the surprise of absolutely no one on this forum. The small front wheel was responsible for about half of the crashes.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/cdc-study-says-e-scooter-injuries-are-largely-preventable-with-helmets.html

 

[Smoother]

3 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The foldable eScooter is another (legal) option

But not legal in the UK.

[Planemo]

4 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

 

The foldable eScooter is another (legal) option

Are electric scooters legal in London now?!

[null]

2- your commute isn’t very long, you could look at the inmotion v5f (typical well rounded beginner with handle) or a bit more expensive the Kingsong KS14D or S. These are 14” wheel, nimble and about 12kg. 16” wheel are more comfy in the ground is very uneven, but are heavier, around 15-17kg.

It just takes a little patience to learn and it’s great fun riding around

[Planemo]

Can you charge at work? The V5F, albeit great, might be on its last legs at 14 miles. Depends on your weight.

[Gasmantle]

I'm also new to this game and bought my V5F last week, I'd agree with the earlier replies it's a good wheel and fairly easy to lift on and off trains or up stairs etc. If you are able to charge at work the the range will be fine but 14 miles round trip on one charge could be getting to its limit.

It ought to be fast enough for a town commute, I currently have mine set to a 12mph max speed while I'm learning to ride it and it's surprising how fast that feels.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Gasmantle

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, Smoother said:

But not legal in the UK.

OMG did those asses also ban eScooters?

It's ridiculous.

[rinzler]

3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Interestingly, the small front wheel is cited as the major reason for eScooter crashes, to the surprise of absolutely no one on this forum. The small front wheel was responsible for about half of the crashes.

Of all the components this might be statistically true but I disagree it is the root cause. A small wheel is just a parameter that a rider must work with. I have an escooter with 5" wheels. I have never crashed it or had an accident. Yes the ride is a little more sketchy and I will dismount on cobbles or similar. That said, a good stance, and understanding of your throttle and braking response will see you right.

I will be upgrading my escooter at some point. The Ninebot ES1/2 looks like the best one on the market to me (aesthetically) the Zoom Stryder is probably the best (although it looks a bit inelegant). The bigger ZERO 8 etc will likely land you in trouble since they look so hardcore (plus weigh it too). Stealth is the aim of the game here whilst we're outlaws.

I'm too early in the game to comment on how good/bad/ugly and euc will be for your circumstances but I do think that each PEV (personal electric vehicle) has it's own merits:

• EUC: unrivalled speed and range, portable (as long as not carrying!)
• eSk8 (boosted board et al): super cool points (but in my mind not suitable for the pot-holed streets of London)
• e-scooter: the easiest to learn and just get on with your life
• one wheel: err... it 'might' legit feel like snowboarding
• e-bike: universally accepted (some of the new ones are soooo stealth and sexy looking but the prices....)

 

Others will come along to help on your choice of euc but I wanted to fly the flag for escooters.

 

[LanghamP]

16 minutes ago, rinzler said:

 I disagree it is the root cause. A small wheel is just a parameter that a rider must work with. I have an escooter with 5" wheels. I have never crashed it or had an accident. Yes the ride is a little more sketchy and I will dismount on cobbles or similar. That said, a good stance, and understanding of your throttle and braking response will see you right.

Crashers cited they were 1st time riders in 29% of the crashes. That probably means the riders did not yet have the experience to recognize dangerous potholes nor the experience/skill to control the brakes and steering of their eScooter.

When designing something, it might be prudent for the design to be forgiving, unless you do not want it to be forgiving.

And a lot of experienced riders don't want their rides to be forgiving, because that experience and skill was bought at some cost. Instead, experienced riders like to tell inexperienced riders to get experienced while on dangerous objects because that's what they did. Being hazed is a very manly thing to do.

Do you want the design to be safer or do you want the design to be dangerous while telling the rider to be more skillful and experienced? 

I mean, we could do the same thing if you needed to learn how to play, say, a boardgame; simply point a loaded gun at your chest, and then everytime you make a mistake we fire the gun. Please note we do remind you to follow the rules.

 

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

OMG did those asses also ban eScooters?

They were never legal to start with so they never got as far as being banned (using the word banned in the normal tense eg after an event).

[LanghamP]

3 minutes ago, Planemo said:

They were never legal to start with so they never got as far as being banned (using the word banned in the normal tense eg after an event).

Hmm, if the eScooter requires a kick to get going and the speed is capped at 15.5 mph, then wouldn't this eScooter fall under the pedal motorized vehicles?

The throttle leads me to believe that it would not...

[Planemo]

The throttle is one aspect that immediately makes it illegal, yes.

However, the law around ebikes specifically makes mention of the words 'pedal assist' therefore if it has no pedals it doesnt fall into class. So even if you took the throttle off and had a 'push to start' ebike it still wouldnt be legal.

Its the primary reason why (legal) ebikes are officially named 'pedelecs' or 'pedal assisted electrics' and the term 'ebike' is far too loose to be useful.

Of course, many ebikes in the uk have been played with to far exceed the 15.5mph cap but would look indistinguishable from a legal one...

[LanghamP]

7 minutes ago, Planemo said:

many ebikes in the uk have been played with to far exceed the 15.5mph cap but would look indistinguishable from a legal one...

The major reason I wouldn't recommend a bicycle in a city is theft. 

In St Louis, 100% of the 16 or so people I was riding with had had their bikes stolen, in most cases more than once. Where I live now, it's 1/2 of the riders. To be fair many didn't lock up their bikes (I lock up my bikes in my garage), but many did.

Little known fact: the biggest bike thief of all time was Adolf Hitler, who ordered all bikes to be taken in Denmark, Italy, and Holland.

http://sciencenordic.com/how-hitler-decided-launch-largest-bike-theft-denmark’s-history

[Mini.mina]

7 hours ago, Smoother said:

Welcome.  I ride frequently in Cambridge but never by the Science Park (had to look it up).  I've never seen another wheel in Cambridge.

@Chriull is correct, they are illegal to use on public land, roads, pavement in the UK.  There are many riders but we are all outlaws.  Buy one, use it, enjoy it but be aware it could be confiscated, you could be fined, and you could get points on your driving license (you are operating an un-licensed, un-insured, un-road worthy vehicle so points are possible).

Having said that, Some of us have been riding for years without a problem; and problems are few and far between, but i cannot make any guarantees YMMV as they say..  I personally make my self invisible when I see police around, It just doesn't pay to take unnecessary risks.  It just takes one cop with a bee in his bonnet to ruin your day. But I ride solely for pleasure so if I have to dismount and linger in the shadows for a few minutes, until the coast is clear, no damage done.  If i was trying to catch a train that might be a different story.

Also, bear in mind that these things generally go slower (or have to be ridden slower for safety reasons) than the posted speed limit (London's 20mph limit excepted) so if you have to ride on the street it can be quite harrowing to have a constant stream of cars passing feet from your right shoulder, or closer.  It's not the same as on a bike as one suddenly becomes acutely aware of the possibility of a face plant when falling under a car becomes an option, because you have no front wheel to lean on.  Riding on the pavement in London (illegal everywhere) might also be challenging due to the sheer volume of pedestrians (the walking dead, I call them) and you have had no idea how randomly people walk until you have tried riding an EUC past them.  Not trying to put you off, just trying to avoid the "but nobody told me!" scenario.

If you still want to give it a go, respond, and advice on your other questions will follow.

And...I can come over and train you.

7

Hi Smoother,

Thanks for introducing. What is your actual name? It would be great to meet up! Although I haven't purchased mine yet, I would be intrigued to see yours. I am leaning towards purchasing a KS14S. Which one do you own and how long have you been riding for? I think my best bet is to buy one, practise as a hobby and then make a judgement call to use it for commuting. 

 

Look forward to hearing from you

[Mini.mina]

Hi,

Thanks, everyone for your feedback so far.

I am leaning towards purchasing a KS14S!

Any recommendations on protecting the shell? I can imagine me falling on my face many times and I've seen some cracking (lol) videos. 

How about safety gear? I am going to hunt around on this forum for recommendations.

 

 

Thanks

[Marty Backe]

34 minutes ago, Mini.mina said:

Hi Smoother,

Thanks for introducing. What is your actual name? It would be great to meet up! Although I haven't purchased mine yet, I would be intrigued to see yours. I am leaning towards purchasing a KS14S. Which one do you own and how long have you been riding for? I think my best bet is to buy one, practise as a hobby and then make a judgement call to use it for commuting. 

 

Look forward to hearing from you

Getting a little personal aren't we? 

Do you think someone who calls themself Smoother wants anyone to know their real identity 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Mini.mina said:

I am leaning towards purchasing a KS14S!

Good choice! For you, a reasonably light/easy to carry or trolley and small wheel counts more than other things.

Alternatives:

• Inmotion V8, but I think the 14S is better overall, though the V8 is really great to carry (never tested that on a 14S).
• Gotway MCM5. It's a bit bigger and heavier (and costs more), but definitely one level up from older the 14S/V8 in terms of performance (speed, oomph, fun!). Has a lift button that disables the motor when lifting the wheel and a trolley handle (like the V8, the 14S has the trolley handle but no lift button), so great for mixed commuting as well. The "pro" option if you don't mind the added weight/size (and cost, but it can be had for a good price on AliExpress).

What wheel is right also depends on which wheel you simply prefer for looks etc. Trust your instinct there. There's no wrong choice.

11 hours ago, Mini.mina said:

4. How long does the battery last? Do people charge up at work?

Rule of thumb: 1000Wh gives you 50km/30 miles (80kg rider at 30kph/20mph). More if you're a bit lighter and, most importantly, ride less fast. Half the battery, half that range, and so on.

So no need to charge at work with the wheels under consideration, though you can if you want, no problem there, just bring your charger with you or have a second one at work.

14S: 840Wh = 40km/25 miles easily

MCM5 650Wh: 30km/20 miles easily

MCM5 800Wh:  40km/25 miles

(Both MCM5 weigh the same, so there is no weight advantage to the smaller battery capacity!)

11 hours ago, Mini.mina said:

5. What are the total minimum MUST HAVE safety gear? I have seen people suited and booted and then those with no safety gear.

Some people say "nothing", I say "wrist guards!!". Your hands are very delicate and complicated and a central part of everyday life, and it's hard to imagine any fall where you don't hit with your hands (palms) first. You need to consider the impact (worst case: broken bones) and abrasion (worst case: grating your palms off). Wrist guards are also uncomplicated to wear and put on or off, no reason not to use them. I'd say for shorter commuting that doesn't get too fast (25kph or less usually), you don't really need more, but more never hurts. Do what you think is right.

11 hours ago, Mini.mina said:

6. Do people get the extra warranty on these?

If you buy in EU (probably the case for a King Song), you have 2 years by default. That is enough. I don't see the need for an extra warranty.

If you buy from Ali (might be the case for the MCM5), I still don't think it's worth it.

Wheels are very simple machines and if they don't have an issue right away (which the seller would have to fix in any case), they usually work for a very long time without issue. Wheels failing "later" is quite rare and mostly bad luck.

But again, as with all wheel questions, if you feel something is right or wrong, follow your intuition

[Smoother]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:43 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Some people say "nothing", I say "wrist guards!!". Your hands are very delicate and complicated and a central part of everyday life, and it's hard to imagine any fall where you don't hit with your hands (palms) first. You need to consider the impact (worst case: broken bones) and abrasion (worst case: grating your palms off). Wrist guards are also uncomplicated to wear and put on or off, no reason not to use them. I'd say for shorter commuting that doesn't get too fast (25kph or less usually), you don't really need more, but more never hurts. Do what you think is right.

This is precisely the reason why wrist guards are (in my opinion) the number one safety equipment.  Well put.

If i were picking a 14" wheel again, I'd pick the MCM5.  It has a stellar reputation.

------------------

@Mini.mina while some people chose to use a real name (or is it? ) I choose the more common internet practice, like you apparently  of anonymity.  No particular reason but I have heard of government agencies using people's facebook accounts to successfully challenge their tax returns, and employers increasingly use the internet to research candidates.  Then there are celebrities, actors, and politicians ( as well as job candidates, I remember a recent Kent county people's representative who had to resign over older comments she had made on the internet when she was a young adult or even a minor), hung out to dry for off the cuff on-line comments they made years ago, that are taken out of context, e.g. the recent furor over Liam Nesons spur of the moment, ancient comments after a friend was raped. I pass no judgement either way, just using it as an example.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47117177

So although I don't have any many skeletons to hide, I choose anonymity as a rule.  Although when I met up with @meepmeepmayer in Cambridge last month I did let him call me............... Smoother (just kidding)....  Mr Smoother.

I'd be happy to meet up in Cambridge some time and show you what it's all about (as long as it's by the river), but only in good weather, I don't pull my wheel out on days like this: sun, rain, sun, hail, sun, rain, wind, wind, wind, rinse and repeat.

[Smoother]

On 5/2/2019 at 9:22 PM, Mini.mina said:

Which one do you own and how long have you been riding for?

King Song 16S, started Oct 2016, in France, then Spain, now UK

Quote: " I think my best bet is to buy one, practice as a hobby and then make a judgement call to use it for commuting." Well that's a horse of a different colour.  It's a lot more free and easy as a hobby as compared to a commuting commitment in country where they are illegal. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Smoother

[mrelwood]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:06 PM, Mini.mina said:

5. What are the total minimum MUST HAVE safety gear? I have seen people suited and booted and then those with no safety gear.

It depends on several things: How fast you ride, where you ride, how foolish you are, and how much you prefer to get hurt when you fall...

I often ride at 45km/h, and I love off-roading, slow and fast. I usually ride around 250km a week. I find it sensible to wear full motorcycle gear with proper knee, elbow and shoulder protectors, thick leather gloves with integrated wrist protectors, and a MTB helmet with a chin guard.

For peaceful commuting for a few miles I’d go with the wrist gloves, helmet, and probably my summer jacket that has lighter elbow padding. But hands & wrists first, since they can easily get nasty bruises even from a tiny tumble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mini.mina]

@Smoother thanks for all the info! Apologises about asking your name, it was so I could come meet you but hey! If you want me to call you Mr Smoother! I’m happy with that too! Let organise a meet up (prefer to be ASAP). Would you be okay with me asking you questions, checking out your wheel, tips tricks etc. I wouldn’t have a wheel. I’ve spoken to speedy feet and has recommended me the inmotion V10! 

After seeing yours I would hope to buy straight away to be honest. 

 

Also being a newbie gives me a lot of restrictions on the number of posts a day! Hence why it’s taken me some time to reply. 

 

@meepmeepmayer thanks for all the advice too and everyone else

 

Update so far:

- first wheel is now looking like an inmotion V10

- I won’t be using this to commute to london (the job fell through) so will be buying this as a side hobby 

- helmet and wrist wraps will be purchased 

- stand / cover will be extra to buy with wheel

 

@Smoother is there a way to send me your email to organise a meet up?

[meepmeepmayer]

Too bad about the job But now you're more free to choose from all the nice wheels Maybe consider a 1600Wh longer range wheel now. I'd go for the V10F over the V10 simply because of the bigger battery/range (both wheels weigh the same, despite the capacity difference).

Don't rush it too fast, but also it's hard to make a wrong choice.

1 hour ago, Mini.mina said:

@Smoother is there a way to send me your email to organise a meet up?

I gave you some upvotes, I believe it is part of when you can send a message on the forum.