!!! Firmware or hardware problems with KS18L, wheels locking up while trolleying

[LewisF]

I've been planning on purchasing an 18l from Speedyfeet, but these issues are giving me cold feet, especially as I would use the trolley handle quite a lot.

I was wondering, is there any general consensus on the points below, or are these complete unknowns at this stage? (and sorry if these have already been covered)...

1) Is it looking like this issue is currently present in all 18l units? (i.e each one is a ticketing 'time bomb' that will at some point lock-up when being trolleyed), or is it more likely that it's just a fault with a few unlucky units.

2) Is this issue one that should theoretically be resolved with a firmware update, or is this more likely an inherent engineering flaw with some of the hardware in the initial batches of the wheel (i.e something that can't be resolved without getting a replacement wheel or hardware)?

____

I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on the above - I'm trying to gauge whether I'd be best to hold off making the purchase for now.  

It also occurred to me how dangerous this issue could be if it occurred while trolleying the wheel across a busy road.  

Edited July 29, 2018 by LewisF
typo made it confusing

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[em1barns]

@LewisF, we don’t know what we don’t know. If KS cannot reproduce the issue, it means it is a non trivial one, and any answer would be pure guess.

What I do know though is that it is a pleasure to ride, and that there is plenty of power margin in this wheel. 

[ricqvo]

Hello guys,

My 18L is comming tommorow...

I have read everything about it on this forum... And I dont wanna have any issues with my wheel... It costs a lot of money, it was 2 summer months of everyday work for me... I dont wanna open the shell and configure it myself.... I dont really understand this type of electronic devices...

So the tutorial is:

1) Power on the wheel

2) Connect it via bluetooth app

3) Update firmware

4) Calibrate sensors

5) Turn off the switch off sensor?

6) Believe.

 

Is that right? Do you have some tips to learn to ride as big wheel as 18L is? I have ever riden only V5F (14", 550W) so it will be quite a change for me... I am gonna use it as a commuter to school daily... Trolleying only at school and on the bus stop sometimes...

 

Thank you guys, have a great day!

[Juick]

13 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

So the tutorial is:

1) Power on the wheel

2) Connect it via bluetooth app

3) Update firmware

4) Calibrate sensors

5) Turn off the switch off sensor?

6) Believe.

 

Yeah, that is exactly what I'm gonna do tomorrow when my KS18L arrives. Unfortunately nobody really knows If that helps with this issue at all. It solves some other problems, so it is still recommended process. Only sure thing is, all cases were while trolleying. So until some official info emerges, I will trolley with my KS18L as little as possible. 

[LewisF]

Thanks @nte & @em1barns - those were helpful breakdowns of the situation ?

It does look like an awesome wheel & great to hear you're enjoying yours. 

I reckon I'll pull the trigger on getting one now rather than hang around!

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[em1barns]

According to a French reseller, Kingsong provided an APK to resellers to solve the issue on locked down wheels. This is just for affected wheels atm, I hope if it proves to be working that it will be deployed to all wheels.

@US69, any update on what they suspect to be the culprit?

[US69]

26 minutes ago, em1barns said:

According to a French reseller, Kingsong provided an APK to resellers to solve the issue on locked down wheels. This is just for affected wheels atm, I hope if it proves to be working that it will be deployed to all wheels.

@US69, any update on what they suspect to be the culprit?

The French Reseller is Right About this….

But it is not a new Kind of Firmware!

It is a revised Version of the "Special engineer" app, so that the users which had that Problem (or their Resellers) can make further checks on the board that had the fault.

 

Unfortunatly "the culprit" or what is doing These locks is still not found.

[US69]

16 hours ago, LewisF said:

I've been planning on purchasing an 18l from Speedyfeet, but these issues are giving me cold feet, especially as I would use the trolley handle quite a lot.

I was wondering, is there any general consensus on the points below, or are these complete unknowns at this stage? (and sorry if these have already been covered)...

1) Is it looking like this issue is currently present in all 18l units? (i.e each one is a ticketing 'time bomb' that will at some point lock-up when being trolleyed), or is it more likely that it's just a fault with a few unlucky units.

2) Is this issue one that should theoretically be resolved with a firmware update, or is this more likely an inherent engineering flaw with some of the hardware in the initial batches of the wheel (i.e something that can't be resolved without getting a replacement wheel or hardware)?

____

I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on the above - I'm trying to gauge whether I'd be best to hold off making the purchase for now.  

It also occurred to me how dangerous this issue could be if it occurred while trolleying the wheel across a busy road.  

 

16 hours ago, nte said:

Some 18Ls have had no problems at all.

You can call me biased for sure, but i would say the most 18L's have no Problem at all!

We are still on About 8-10 wheels worldwide, with most cases happend in France, in the US and in Russia. 

There wasn't even one case in Germany, and not one in Thailand and Singapour, where allready the complete batches where sold out...There are for sure other states where also nothing had happend, but i mentioned this 3 as i know the Resellers and talked with them personally about it.

 

As said before unfortunatly the "culprit" is still not found…..

Edited July 30, 2018 by US69

[ricqvo]

Okay, I recieved my 18L today! And I think I fell in love...

I rode only 4 kilometer a minute ago... It was a big hill down and than back... Maaaan, there is power in this wheel??? My BW is 76Kg and it was like I wasn't on the wheel at all... Yes, it was only 20km/h, but even cars have problems with this hill.... 

I updated firmware, calibrated horizontal sensor and turned off lock sensor...

It came straith from KingSong China to Czech Republic (Central Europe) in 3 weeks... I ordered on monday 9.7. and it came on monday 30.7. That is awesome... The packaging was poor... There were only wheel, charger and some od that white plastic stuff (I dont know how it is called in english)...

All people I met were staring at me like if I was from another planet... 

Just awesome... I do not have words for this... It is my first own wheel, I have ridden only few kilometer on V5F before... And it wasnt even mine...

First atempt to ride -> here we go! I didnt have to learn at all... The wheel is so soo smooth and just... It was some kind of simbiotic relation or IDK.

 

I will report more and I will write longer review when I will have 50-100km on the wheel... Luv it❤️

And thank you all guys for helping me with everything! Awesome community!?

[US69]

19 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

will report more and I will write longer review when I will have 50-100km on the wheel... Luv it❤️

And thank you all guys for helping me with everything! Awesome community!?

Congrats  ?

 

[em1barns]

21 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

It came straith from KingSong China to Czech Republic (Central Europe) in 3 weeks... I ordered on monday 9.7. and it came on monday 30.7. That is awesome... The packaging was poor... There were only wheel, charger and some od that white plastic stuff (I dont know how it is called in english)...

Congrats. Did not know one could order directly from Kingsong China, how did you do this?

[ricqvo]

15 minutes ago, em1barns said:

Congrats. Did not know one could order directly from Kingsong China, how did you do this?

You have to just have friends... And ask, ask, and ask more and more people... I did not know that too a month ago...

[Circuitmage]

@US69 I was thinking about that over the weekend. I paid extra for air shipping, so I am wondering if the air travel could have affected my board. It looks like there is conformal coating on the PCB to help seal it, but since may of the failures are on units that traveled long distances, I am wondering if air travel (air pressure) could have affected something. The only thing I can think of would be large electrolytic caps (air pressure inside), but maybe there is something else? 

Hopefully it will just be a FW fix.

Also, I did end up ordering 30 replacement screws (M2x8). They are listed as M2-0.4x8 , so I hope they are the right ones. Taking off the shell isn't too bad, but I'm not looking forward to any controller board replacement. Still haven't heard back from my seller this week about any updates, so 18L will remain in storage until this issue is resolved.

[US69]

3 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

@US69 I was thinking about that over the weekend. I paid extra for air shipping, so I am wondering if the air travel could have affected my board. It looks like there is conformal coating on the PCB to help seal it, but since may of the failures are on units that traveled long distances, I am wondering if air travel (air pressure) could have affected something. The only thing I can think of would be large electrolytic caps (air pressure inside), but maybe there is something else? 

Hopefully it will just be a FW fix.

Also, I did end up ordering 30 replacement screws (M2x8). They are listed as M2-0.4x8 , so I hope they are the right ones. Taking off the shell isn't too bad, but I'm not looking forward to any controller board replacement. Still haven't heard back from my seller this week about any updates, so 18L will remain in storage until this issue is resolved.

Again, i am really sorry for this all!

I personally rode the 18L only for about 4 hours until now...great wheel...great ride!

But this fault really is a #€&@)(.....

My PERSONAL thinking is...that just a small percentage at all...something like first small mininbatch seams to affected!

So your idea might also have some truth in it? Who knows?

In the moment the fact are:

while trolleying some wheels got into this lock loop cycle...the problem is that the KS engeneers where until now not able to reproduce the fault. If they would have a board in this state, i guess finding the fault would be a thing of some minutes, as they than can measure through the board to see where the loop is generated! Or what is the cause of that loop!

I am sorry i can not give any more comments on this at the time!

 

As my understanding goes...the “engeneers app” of KS has been slightly modified to do more measurings on the board and at the time this special android app is delivered over the resellers to the customers which where affected...to do more measurings on the affected boards.

Again, feeling Sorry for all who all those who have been affected! I can only say its positive that KS is not hiding anything in my view, trying pro-active to find the fault...and in open communication about it....

Thats not self evident for our small EUC producers...so i hope it all will find a good ending!

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by US69

[Jason McNeil]

On 7/30/2018 at 1:51 PM, US69 said:

Again, feeling Sorry for all who all those who have been affected! 

@US69, you shouldn't be the fall guy for a KS bug  

Does appear that KS has captured the problem from a returned board, solved through a beta firmware release. The game-plan, as I understand it, is that they want affected Users to test it out, get confirmation from multiple sources, before rolling it across in a v1.08 general update.

Quote

For the issue wheel freeze when walking the wheel with the trolley, we have found solution.
 
We have revised setting of sensor, pls kindly contacted with the users who have encountered this issue, 

ask them to upgrade firmware (firmware version is V1.07, same as current one, but with different setting) with the attached end user app, and offer us feedback within one week. Thanks. 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Jason McNeil

[em1barns]

2 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

@US69, you shouldn't be the fall guy for a KS bug  

Does appear that KS has captured the problem from a returned board, solved through a beta firmware release. The game-plan, as I understand it, is that they want affected Users to test it out, get confirmation from multiple sources, before rolling it across in a v1.08 general update. 

Thanks for sharing, curious to understand what "sensor" they are talking about, if this can be shared openly at this stage.

[Jason McNeil]

13 minutes ago, em1barns said:

curious to understand what "sensor" they are talking about, if this can be shared openly at this stage.

Handle weight-sensor 

[Scubadragonsan]

I'm having problem with KingSong 18L lift sensor. Sometimes it works and when it doesn't work, the wheel will spin to its max, then stop. So I went to KingSong App and make sure the lift sensor is on and also I've used the re-calibration, but to no avail. Anyone has similar issues with the lift sensor? I've read that some KS18L owners also have similar problems. Anyone has a solution or do we have to wait for a firmware update by KingSong later on to fix this lift sensor? 

[Stan Onymous]

Just now, scubadragosan said:

I'm having problem with KingSong 18L lift sensor. Sometimes it works and when it doesn't work, the wheel will spin to its max, then stop. So I went to KingSong App and make sure the lift sensor is on and also I've used the re-calibration, but to no avail. Anyone has similar issues with the lift sensor? I've read that some KS18L owners also have similar problems. Anyone has a solution or do we have to wait for a firmware update by KingSong later on to fix this lift sensor? 

In the posts just above yours this problem is named and the fix is described.

You seem to be having this same problem, so dont use the handle release function, in fact disable it in the app until the update.

[Stan Onymous]

On 7/29/2018 at 10:01 AM, LewisF said:

I've been planning on purchasing an 18l from Speedyfeet, but these issues are giving me cold feet, especially as I would use the trolley handle quite a lot.

I was wondering, is there any general consensus on the points below, or are these complete unknowns at this stage? (and sorry if these have already been covered)...

1) Is it looking like this issue is currently present in all 18l units? (i.e each one is a ticketing 'time bomb' that will at some point lock-up when being trolleyed), or is it more likely that it's just a fault with a few unlucky units.

2) Is this issue one that should theoretically be resolved with a firmware update, or is this more likely an inherent engineering flaw with some of the hardware in the initial batches of the wheel (i.e something that can't be resolved without getting a replacement wheel or hardware)?

____

I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on the above - I'm trying to gauge whether I'd be best to hold off making the purchase for now.  

It also occurred to me how dangerous this issue could be if it occurred while trolleying the wheel across a busy road.  

Dont let this one thing ruin all your potential fun. Dont even use the Handle Lift Release function until it is fixed. Hell, kingsongs never even had this feature befoe this vehicle. It is an InMotion innovation that others are now copying. The vehicle is a total blast!

I have used the trollying but only with the Handle lift release disabled in the app. It is a remarkably well balanced unit, and is a touch easier to carry than the 5lb lighter V10F. The handle is just better placed for the weight of the vehicle for lifting up stairs.

The speakers are tremendous, the acceleration is great, I climb hills at 19- 20mph. The ride is smooth even at 50psi and even smoother at 40.

I was worried about those things too, but they have almost nothing to do with riding the vehicle. So I have disabled the faulty lift sensor, using this like I used my KS18S and turning it off to climb stairs. I have used Darknessbot for ios and the ks app on Android. Trollying is not a problem as long as the lift sensor is disabled, so that has worked out fine as well.

[Scubadragonsan]

Thanks for the reply Stan Onymous. When you say disable the handle release function, how is that done in the app? Step-by-step if you could... I am just plain ignorant.

Edited August 1, 2018 by scubadragosan

[US69]

8 minutes ago, scubadragosan said:

Thanks for the reply Stan Onymous. When you say disable the handle release function, how is that done in the app? Step-by-step if you could... I am just plain ignorant.

You Need newest Version of the app!!! Android 1.50 or IOS 3.4

Under "Settings" you will find a menu/register for the sensor handle button to calibrate it and to have it ON or OFF

[Stan Onymous]

17 minutes ago, scubadragosan said:

Thanks for the reply Stan Onymous. When you say disable the handle release function, how is that done in the app? Step-by-step if you could... I am just plain ignorant.

Me too! I am also not a special ignorant. Lol

That said, open the App, connect to your 18L. At the bottom right hand corner of the App screen there is a button labeled “More” . Click that button and at the bottom of that list is the “Lift stop rotating switch” line. Click on that and make sure the switch is set to OFF.

Get back on the vehicle and ride it into the next day. ?

Edited August 1, 2018 by Stan Onymous