Bram

Msuper3, wheel for a starter?

101 posts in this topic

22 hours ago, Mono said:

There have been quite a few reports about broken axles and broken pedals from different manufacturers, but none of them related to InMotion, IIRC. The pedals size is above average with a length of 212mm. For a size 13 they should be ideally about 20mm-or-so longer, but I am not sure which wheel would have that anyway.

I think so too :P

Broken axles or foot-pegs doesn't sound good at all...LanghamP doesn't seem to have issues with weight or size with the InMotions, and they seem to be very popular. I saw a guy riding one at the park the other day and he said he had just started and had only been riding an hour total and he was zipping along on his tiny NineBot.

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Hi guys, new member here, and also new to a EUC. 

I am a private pilot who used own a small plane (C 172) and also super bike rider (Ducati 998, R1). Despite these endeavors, I'm being very careful about getting a EUC. Seems to me that it is very easy to get in an accident at 15 MPH and end up injured or dead. For this reason I have no problem getting a slow EUC (max speed 15 MPH, for example). The way I figure, when I'm ready to upgrade I can sell the old machine and get at least half my money back. So if I spend $700 for a first machine, actual cost might be $350 to $400. 

I don't mind spending $400 for the five to ten hours it takes me to become confident on a machine. For me it is not necessary to buy a machine that I will want when I become proficient. (I have read some posts on the Net where the person advised getting a machine that's a "keeper" once getting past the learning stage. 

This is pretty much like riding super bikes. Someone learning to ride motorcycles should not start off with a Yamaha R1. :) Matter of fact, I bought my R1 at a super low price from a guy that bought it off the showroom floor. He rode it a few miles, was scared to death, and he parked it and put it up for sale on Craig's List at a huge loss to him. I rode that bike home with a huge grin because I saved about $2,000 from what I would have had to pay. 

Anyway, from all your excellent comments it seems a safe, fun, and OK machine is the NineBot E+ or perhaps an older Gotway? 

I appreciated those who mentioned safety and noted that going 20+ MPH is suicide for a beginner. That's what I gathered in my travels around the Net. To be sure, from riding super bikes at 150 MPH with full gear (and where I know what I'm doing) would be suicidal to for a beginner to be doing that. Going 25 MPH on a little spinning wheel is, IMO, akin to riding the R1 to 150 MPH when the rider does not know squat about how to do that. 

I have watched those YouTube videos where people are traveling at 25 to 30 MPH, I picture them hitting a car or tree at that speed. Seems to me the rider is going to be permanently disabled or dead. Roundabout way of saying I'm fine with putt putting at 12 to 15 MPH. :) 

Thanks for all the great tips in here. 

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Old video, but I've always wondered how many broken bones and how many teeth the rider had left after that ;) 

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Posted (edited)

Ninebot One E+ is a reliable starter wheel if you can find one still.  Parts are getting harder to source though.  @Duf  has a great series of videos where he learned on a 9bot and graduated to more advanced wheels.  Can't get into too much trouble with a tiltback speed of 22 kph, but you yearn for more speed rather quickly.

InMotion V5F+ or V8 are also good I hear, and you may not need to upgrade for longer.  ACM16 is a popular choice.  KS16 has many followers as well.  Putting up a bit more money at the start can stretch your dollar out longer rather than buying cheap and buying twice.

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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3 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Ninebot One E+ is a reliable starter wheel if you can find one still.  Parts are getting harder to source though.  @Duf  has a great series of videos where he learned on a 9bot and graduated to more advanced wheels.  Can't get into too much trouble with a tiltback speed of 22 kph, but you yearn for more speed rather quickly.

InMotion V5F+ or V8 are also good I hear, and you may not need to upgrade for longer.  ACM16 is a popular choice.  KS16 has many followers as well.  Putting up a bit more money at the start can stretch your dollar out longer rather than buying cheap and buying twice.

It seems like 16" wheel's are the sweet spot for cost, lightness and a wheel large enough to go over rough terrain.
My impression after a week of researching is the V8 is perhaps more refined, more popular and easier to find parts and support for. Sort of like a Lexus. I almost wish it didn't have all the blinky lights. The Kingsong's and Gotway's look a little more home made and raw, but more durable? Maybe more SUV?

I was all geared up to get an 18" wheel because of my size and weight, 6'1", 230 lb, but someone convinced me that a 16" is ample, especially as a first wheel. Carrying, storing, and one day selling are part of the equation too.

But most importantly,  I want the one which has the best feel to the drive mechanism, and is the most reliable, that appears to be the X-factor. The last thing i want is the thing stopping when I'm zipping down the street ... I like my teeth just the way they are!

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, MichaelSF said:

...

Nobody forces you to go faster than you want. You can go 5 km/h with a "fast" wheel no problems. In fact, there are no slow or fast wheels, there are only weak or powerful wheels (the latter happen to have a higher safe max speed).

Consider, higher power = better safety. The power isn't just used for speed, it is used to keep you balanced (aka NOT faceplanting) in all sort of possibly high demand situations (for example, a weak wheel might crash you when you hit a sudden and serious bump at 20 km/h, while a stronger wheel can easily balance it out).

There is NO reason to go for a slower/less powerful wheel for safety reasons. There is literally no safety downside to a stronger wheel. If you're concerned about kids, you can limit the top speed of pretty much any modern wheel by app.

A safety thing you can do is wearing protection, from nothing to full motorcycle armor.

--

Unless it's about cost, I would not buy a Ninebot or an older model. The newer ones are just much better. Inmotion V5f (14 inch), V8 (16 inch), latest KingSongs, latest Gotways

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nobody forces you to go faster than you want. You can go 5 km/h with a "fast" wheel no problems. In fact, there are no slow or fast wheels, there are only weak or powerful wheels (the latter happen to have a higher safe max speed).

Consider, higher power = better safety. The power isn't just used for speed, it is used to keep you balanced (aka NOT faceplanting) in all sort of possibly high demand situations (for example, a weak wheel might crash you when you hit a sudden and serious bump at 20 km/h, while a stronger wheel can easily balance it out).

There is NO reason to go for a slower/less powerful wheel for safety reasons. There is literally no safety downside to a stronger wheel. If you're concerned about kids, you can limit the top speed of pretty much any modern wheel by app.

A safety thing you can do is wearing protection, from nothing to full motorcycle armor.

--

Unless it's about cost, I would not buy a Ninebot or an older model. The newer ones are just much better. Inmotion V5f (14 inch), V8 (16 inch), latest KingSongs, latest Gotways

Exactly. I have an MCM4. I think the best values. I like the V8 a lot because has bigger (confort) wheel and it weight same or less then the  MCM4. The ACM and MSuperv3 are fantastic but I did not wanted to spend that much yet and forget carrying that around I think they are past the 40lbs range. 

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6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There is NO reason to go for a slower/less powerful wheel for safety reasons. There is literally no safety downside to a stronger wheel. If you're concerned about kids, you can limit the top speed of pretty much any modern wheel by app.

Unreasonable this-time-I-will-be-fine behaviour is not at all limited to kids, besides that speed is very difficult to estimate reliably.

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4 minutes ago, Mono said:

Unreasonable this-time-I-will-be-fine behaviour is not at all limited to kids, besides that speed is very difficult to estimate reliably.

You're right with the unreasonable behavior, I just file that under personal responsibility, not a weakness of the wheel, but self control is still a point. Hopefully not for a plane pilot, though:D.

 As for the speed, just do what a "slow" wheel would do: lower the alarms so the "fast" wheels beeps at you at your "slow" wheel's max speed. Same behavior, more safety reserves.

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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nobody forces you to go faster than you want. You can go 5 km/h with a "fast" wheel no problems. In fact, there are no slow or fast wheels, there are only weak or powerful wheels (the latter happen to have a higher safe max speed).

____________________

I think of  these EUC the same way as motorcycles I have owned; my personal general rule has been to never buy a bike that in my mind would be too much to handle. A good example was when the Ducati 1098 came out. While I loved that bike, there was a lot of guys (typically going through a midlife crisis) who had the coin to buy it so they did. Most of them had some sport bike experience, but not any hours with a race or super bike. They ended up selling those bikes for dirt cheap on the used market, or they collected dust in the garage. (By the way, the 1098's numbers are: 0-60 mph in LESS 3.0 seconds; 1/4 mile 10.015 - 144 mph (231.65 km/h) & max speed 173 mph). 

While one certainly could have bought the 1098 under the assumption that he simply would choose not to go so fast, and granny shift at green lights, the trouble was that a bike so powerful was NOT so easy to control. For example, when merging on to the freeway it is very easy to give the bike too much throttle, end up pulling a wheelie, and lose control to where the rider ends up severely injured or dead. 

Anyway, these EUCs do not have anything to protect the rider (when I crashed at 70 mph, a car hit me, I was able to hug the bike and slide down the freeway. The bike was protecting me until I slowed to a halt). Yes, I can wear gear, but limbs, ribs, bones, and skin are mostly exposed in a crash. Because of this I look at a 25 mph crash on a EUC equivalent to crashing at 50++ mph on a motorcycle. 

Another analogy, these things are like earthquakes (living in San Francisco I know a lot about quakes). Most people don't know that 1 point on the Richter Scale means the quake is 10 X more powerful than the quake at the point below. San Francisco has survived 6.+ quakes. A 7.0 quake would cause massive destruction. A 9.0 to 10.0 quake would result in tectonic destruction, meaning the end of life in California. 

It seems to me (I could be totally wrong) that each MPH one goes above 18, 19, 20 would equal the way more serious the injury in a crash. An accident between 25-30 mph, that's a death wish.

I have to wonder why manufacturers limit the speeds of the EUCs they produce. I suspect that's installing a "governor" of sorts because the companies do not want to be liable for people losing control at high speeds. To be sure, if a newbie underestimates the speed he is traveling and ends up crashing at 25 mph, he's going to sue the manufacturer and seller for making a machine that goes so fast.  

Finally, I suspect a EUC maxing out at 25 mph, for example, can give riders a false sense of safety, i.e., how bad can I be hurt in a 25 mph crash. These people forget about the many famous people who have been killed on the ski slopes because they lost control and hit rocks or trees. They were going far slower than the max speed of these machines. 

Anyway, like I said before, I don't trust myself because I know nothing about the EUC riding experience. So until I know what is what I will opt for a slower unit.

Over and out. 

 

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nobody forces you to go faster than you want. You can go 5 km/h with a "fast" wheel no problems. In fact, there are no slow or fast wheels, there are only weak or powerful wheels (the latter happen to have a higher safe max speed).

Consider, higher power = better safety. The power isn't just used for speed, it is used to keep you balanced (aka NOT faceplanting) in all sort of possibly high demand situations (for example, a weak wheel might crash you when you hit a sudden and serious bump at 20 km/h, while a stronger wheel can easily balance it out).

There is NO reason to go for a slower/less powerful wheel for safety reasons. There is literally no safety downside to a stronger wheel. If you're concerned about kids, you can limit the top speed of pretty much any modern wheel by app.

A safety thing you can do is wearing protection, from nothing to full motorcycle armor.

--

Unless it's about cost, I would not buy a Ninebot or an older model. The newer ones are just much better. Inmotion V5f (14 inch), V8 (16 inch), latest KingSongs, latest Gotways

 

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25 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

As for the speed, just do what a "slow" wheel would do: lower the alarms so the "fast" wheels beeps at you at your "slow" wheel's max speed. Same behavior, more safety reserves.

Agreed, if one can limit the speed of the wheel to the desired value (preferably with tilt-back rather than acoustic warnings), the wheel which can reach higher speed is rather preferable.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, serfy said:

It seems like 16" wheel's are the sweet spot for cost, lightness and a wheel large enough to go over rough terrain.
My impression after a week of researching is the V8 is perhaps more refined, more popular and easier to find parts and support for. Sort of like a Lexus. I almost wish it didn't have all the blinky lights. The Kingsong's and Gotway's look a little more home made and raw, but more durable? Maybe more SUV?

I was all geared up to get an 18" wheel because of my size and weight, 6'1", 230 lb, but someone convinced me that a 16" is ample, especially as a first wheel. Carrying, storing, and one day selling are part of the equation too.

But most importantly,  I want the one which has the best feel to the drive mechanism, and is the most reliable, that appears to be the X-factor. The last thing i want is the thing stopping when I'm zipping down the street ... I like my teeth just the way they are!

I learned on a generic 14" wheel, and it was pretty difficult to get riding on that wheel I found.  When I got my 16" wheel Ninebot One E+, it was super easy to ride maybe because of the larger wheel and the extra weight.  I probably would steer people to learn on a 16" wheel as it handles various terrain better.  I'm 167 pounds so I don't know if a Ninebot One E+ would be a great choice for someone who is 230 lbs.  I would avoid the KingSong 14 wheels as they seem to be plagued with axle failures where one side cracks resulting in the pedal support rubbing against the motor cover.  You might be better off with a wheel that has a higher powered motor and battery capacity.  I haven't tried an 18" wheel yet, but @Bryan Wells had some good things to say about the KS18 in his video reviews for the most part.

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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I'm learning on a 14 inch Kingsong and its kinda bumpy at full speed when you go over curb cuts and rough concrete seams. I'd like to try some bigger wheels. 

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9 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@MichaelSF Never ridden a motorbike, and only tried one electric unicycle, but I don't think they are comparable at all. Maybe that can be generalized to combustion engine vs electric motor.

With EUCs (electric motor), there is no necessary connection between motor power and feeling of riding. Specifically, you can't say a stronger wheel will be harder to control. Ideally, the wheels will control the same (the higher powered wheel will simply have bigger margins) and you can't tell the difference. How direct a wheel feels (with a fixed tire size, like 16 inch) is mostly a software configuration thing. Most current wheels have different ride modes (from soft to hard) that you can choose, and that setting controls the hardness (how direct it feels).

For example, a Gotway ACM (1500W nominal power) is a very soft (less direct) wheel compared to the Inmotion V8 (800W nominal) which can be considered the "hardest" (instant reaction) wheel. If you gave both to a beginner, that person might as well think the V8 is the "stronger" wheel.

Also, I believe it's misleading to think in terms of speed. Speed is just a result of motor power and battery capability to push out enough electricity. Literally any wheel can go any speed, the question is just what the safe speed is. You always need to have enough reserves to balance out obstacles, even at high speed. Otherwise you 100% faceplant. This is how the manufacturers establish the "top speed" of the wheel where the warnings and pedal tiltback try to stop you from going into unsafe territory. Speed isn't really a design goal of EUCs, reliable power output is.

An example: Gotway ACM 84V (16 inch) and msuper V3 (18 inch) have the same motor. Because higher tire radius = faster speed at constant rpm, the msuper has a higher top speed setting than the ACM. Obviously, no relation to the motor. The ACM might even feel more direct/"stronger" due to the higher torque. [This comparison is a bit questionable because of the different wheel diameters, a smaller tire wheel will always feel more direct.]

About actual numbers, imho 35 km/h (22 mph) is the highest you can go safely with the fastest wheels - maybe 40 km/h (25 mph) with Kingsong 18, msuperV3, Monster [that also highly depends on weight, my numbers are for around 80kg/180 lbs]. So anything above that is not only unsafe for "what happens if I crash" reasons, but unsafe because the wheels aren't reliably made for that. The scariest/biggest danger with EUCs is not a crash due to a bump (which is mostly under your control), it is a sudden motor cut out (you will faceplant without warning) because your requirements to keep balancing are above what the motor/battery can deliver, even if it's just for an instant.

So don't be distracted by crazy Russians going 35 mph or fantasy numbers by the manufacturers. That's not normal.

This is simplified, but ideally, the only difference you can tell between a "weak" and "strong" wheel is when it starts warning you. Higher speeds are just a "free" extra you get with stronger motors and batteries (of course, manufacturers will advertise the higher top speeds relentlessly).

I'm not an expert but this should be mostly how it is:)

--

All this is only safety. Of course higher powered motors cost more (with the bigger batteries that tend to come with them) and if you can't afford, don't want or don't need what a higher powered motor can provide, no need to get one. Every good (brand) wheel will warn you with high enough probability before something happens. It's up to you to heed the warning - by principle, there's no direct way to slow you down, you can overlean the tiltback on any wheel and see how fast you get before it switches off.

--

@Mono Tiltback scares me (never experienced it) because of the potential loss of balance right when you don't need that. So I prefer only audio warnings and tiltback only at the standard "catastrophe prevention" setting.

Great explanation, even tho I didn't pose the motorcycle comparison (and I do own a couple) this helped me understand the whole concept more.

One thing you brought to light: "the Inmotion V8 (800W nominal) which can be considered the "hardest" (instant reaction) wheel". This is the one I'm most settled on. Does the "hardness" make it more difficult to learn on, or easier?  Can this be adjusted in the settings?

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Posted (edited)

Thanks!

The standard setting is what I'd recommend learning on, whatever it is. I don't think the Inmotion will be harder to learn, just different to other wheels (but since you have no comparison... no problem:) I learned on my ACM and have never thought "wish I had an easier wheel", it's just the wheel you have). Also, big plus: the V8 is light, which should make things easier.

In my limited experience, too hard and too soft is both harder to learn on. I'm scared to use my ACM's soft setting (ACM is already very soft, it seems) because it feels like the wheel wobbles below you and you can lose control easily. While the hard mode (which is soft im comparison to other wheels, apparently) is quite direct and allows less errors/needs more balancing efforts (the ACM only has 3 settings, no slider).

But I think what kind of wheel you have also matters, the manufacturers aren't stupid and I just assume overall the standard setting is a good way to learn for the specific wheel (also, I personally don't like to learn on things different to what the normal usage would be - at least for me, no "learning settings"). You could make the wheel a bit softer, maybe that can help learning. [I don't know if or in how many steps you can set the V8 hardness!! You can ask for details on the Inmotion forum].

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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On 4/13/2017 at 3:30 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

As for the speed, just do what a "slow" wheel would do: lower the alarms so the "fast" wheels beeps at you at your "slow" wheel's max speed. Same behavior, more safety reserves.

That's one thing that Ninebot did wrong.  The speed limiter can only be set in small increments up to 6.2 mph. Which is very slow.  Then, you are free to go as fast as it will take you.  Which is too fast for me.  More than 15 mph. If you are flying at 15mph and fall off, something is bound to give.  That is why, if I get a new wheel, it will probably be a Gotway, from what I have read, you can set the alarms to any speed all the way up to the fastest recommended speed.

I would like to set the alarm at about 10-12 mph but Ninebot does not do that.:furious:  It doesn't even beep when close to the top speed.  So far it has beeped at hitting small bumps at low speed, like it set off a current spike or something, but I have to say it has been reliable and safe feeling when I ride less than 12-13 mph on smooth ground.  But who knows when some component could fail?  I'm thinking that Ninebot thinks that if I can ride over 6.2 mph without falling off, then I can ride as fast as I want.  It's all on me if I turn off the speed limiter.  The lawyers probably decided that.  I never see anywhere how fast the Ninebot can really go.  I'm thinking it might be one of the fastest wheels, but they just don't advertise high speed because of the liability issue.

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6 minutes ago, steve454 said:

That is why, if I get a new wheel, it will probably be a Gotway, from what I have read, you can set the alarms to any speed all the way up to the fastest recommended speed.

For InMotion the max speed is set with a slider in the App, any speed your fine motor skills allow to hit. 

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MichealSF, I learned on a $225 'cheapo' wheel off ebay.  Tiltback starts at 6.1mph, beeps at 9mph, range 7mi (160# rider).  Far as I'm concerned it was a great learning machine.  I have better wheels now, but I still got out the cheapo when I started learning backwards.  And it's perfect for letting kids (and other adults) learn to ride (slow enough it can't much hurt them, inexpensive enough it's OK for the kids to beat it up).

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I actually decided to buy the V8. Main reasons were that this machine is pretty reliable (strong enough engine for my weight), has the speed that I wanted (30kph), was still portable enough to take on the train. I find cruising that at 30kph in the Netherlands I can still oversee the traffic situations and am in control of the wheel. I actually decided against buying a starter wheel and go straight for the keeper wheel because even if you sell it later on you´re bound to take some losses in money, and if you are careful when learning (protect your machine) you don't get irrevocable damage. Most of my scratches came after I was proficient at driving and actually started pushing the machine.

If you care about replacing parts I find that the v8 is really nice, Fineone on aliexpress actually send me a replacement trolley system which arrived within a week, since I was ordering anyways I decided to buy some new side cover plates in case I want to "reset" the wheel to good as new condition. Anyways I'm really content with this wheel as it got me started and I don't feel the need to upgrade yet. Although next week I'll be trying out some different wheels, hope that doesn't change my mind ;)

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Posted (edited)

I

15 hours ago, Bram said:

I actually decided to buy the V8. Main reasons were that this machine is pretty reliable (strong enough engine for my weight), has the speed that I wanted (30kph), was still portable enough to take on the train. I find cruising that at 30kph in the Netherlands I can still oversee the traffic situations and am in control of the wheel. I actually decided against buying a starter wheel and go straight for the keeper wheel because even if you sell it later on you´re bound to take some losses in money, and if you are careful when learning (protect your machine) you don't get irrevocable damage. Most of my scratches came after I was proficient at driving and actually started pushing the machine.

If you care about replacing parts I find that the v8 is really nice, Fineone on aliexpress actually send me a replacement trolley system which arrived within a week, since I was ordering anyways I decided to buy some new side cover plates in case I want to "reset" the wheel to good as new condition. Anyways I'm really content with this wheel as it got me started and I don't feel the need to upgrade yet. Although next week I'll be trying out some different wheels, hope that doesn't change my mind ;)

I am 90% set on V8 as well. My only concern or "what about this" is the KS18 has a seat. For doing camera work, being able to sit still or rest between takes would be an asset and pretty cool in general. Is it pretty easy to sit on them? I wonder if they hire really small people for example videos and photos, then when my larger frame (6'1" 230lbs)  gets on it sitting isn't really an option. The other way to look at it is, learn on the V8 then sell it once I get good. I'm betting it will retain much of its value for 6 months. From what I've learned smaller units are lighter and thus easier to learn on.

Edited by serfy
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Tough but I don't know anything about your photo assignments. If it is flat I presume any wheel would do to glide along a scene. 

I would think also a full size Segway machine would make more sense. 

But if you are talking about zig, zag up down off road. You need a hearty machine but that is not something you can lift and carry around. 

If you don't need long range that gives you options if money is a constraint. I believe the battery pack is about 50% the cost of the gotway and king song type machines. 

Do you also need to fly at high speed?

i almost think you need a custome made machine. 

Can you put a list of the featuresbyou need?

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5 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

Tough but I don't know anything about your photo assignments. If it is flat I presume any wheel would do to glide along a scene. 

I would think also a full size Segway machine would make more sense. 

But if you are talking about zig, zag up down off road. You need a hearty machine but that is not something you can lift and carry around. 

If you don't need long range that gives you options if money is a constraint. I believe the battery pack is about 50% the cost of the gotway and king song type machines. 

Do you also need to fly at high speed?

i almost think you need a custome made machine. 

Can you put a list of the featuresbyou need?

I'm still figuring it out. And at this point it's all in theory. Guys to shoot on Segway's, but that's a big heavy beast with a wide foot print. The beauty of an EUC is portability and maneuverability. Speed, yes?  I also Rollerblade, so a lot of ground is covered on them, but the EUC gives a more effortless glide and can go on rougher terrain and a lot of the appeal is I'd be unique. With social media I could advertise something that I've never seen any other cam ops do. I'm trying to expand my skill set...and get a cool toy in the mean time. :)

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7 minutes ago, serfy said:

I'm still figuring it out. And at this point it's all in theory. Guys to shoot on Segway's, but that's a big heavy beast with a wide foot print. The beauty of an EUC is portability and maneuverability. Speed, yes?  I also Rollerblade, so a lot of ground is covered on them, but the EUC gives a more effortless glide and can go on rougher terrain and a lot of the appeal is I'd be unique. With social media I could advertise something that I've never seen any other cam ops do. I'm trying to expand my skill set...and get a cool toy in the mean time. :)

I know this guy Niestad that does all his media video riding on a electric skateboard. Maybe that is a option. 

You might need multiple machines. 

So try to come up with one small set of requirements that would add value to your business as a photo platform. But you can not say for example that it has to fly go underwater and make dinner. 

Do you know what would the smallest set of features that would give you an edge? @serfy

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4 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

I know this guy Niestad that does all his media video riding on a electric skateboard. Maybe that is a option. 

You might need multiple machines. 

So try to come up with one small set of requirements that would add value to your business as a photo platform. But you can not say for example that it has to fly go underwater and make dinner. 

Do you know what would the smallest set of features that would give you an edge? @serfy

HAHA!  If it could cook me dinner, I'd be in heaven!


Here's the list
Portability fits in my car with lots of other gear. (do they allow them on planes if batteries can be shipped separately?)
Carry my weight + camera payload  (me = 220-230 lbs, camera 7-20 lbs)
Travel on rough terrain - grass, off road
Reliable + holds it's value = Parts are available (these all seem to be branches of the same tree)
Sitting is attractive because of waiting between takes. Can you sit on it, then stand and go?

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