Marty Backe Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Pard said: Anybody inspect an Msuper charge port? That is now on my to-do list. Thanks Marty for posting this finding. See @SuperSport's video above. He had the same problem on his MSuper. It may not be worth bothering with it until you have a charging problem because you have to do quite a bit of disassembly to get to the port. And they probably are not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 13 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I don't think it's wise to push 5 amps (EWheels 5 amp charger) through these wires. Not for extended periods anyway. I've been using the Fast Charger at the 4 amp setting and I'll continue to use that. 5 amps would probably be OK, but we're starting to operate at the margins now. I'll stay a little on the conservative side and stick with 4 amps max. The surprises never cease... It's funny because I just shipped myself back that test ACMs+ last week, the plan was that if I could get through the work backlog from the Firmware mess (sorry for radio silence, that's why I haven't been on the forum recently), I was going to pull out the thermal camera & test the 5A current charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: The surprises never cease... It's funny because I just shipped myself back that test ACMs+ last week, the plan was that if I could get through the work backlog from the Firmware mess (that's why I haven't been on the forum recently), I was going to pull out the thermal camera & test the 5A current charging. That would be interesting to see. 5 amps will probably work fine, but if the charge port has a bad solder joint 5 amps might be enough to push it over the edge. 4 amps is still really fast so that's where I'm limiting myself for the reasons I gave above. Your charger works great though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, Marty Backe said: That would be interesting to see. 5 amps will probably work fine, but if the charge port has a bad solder joint 5 amps might be enough to push it over the edge. Hope (probably a naive optimism) is that someone at GW pointed this out & the later batches of ACMs+ have proper soldering in place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: The charge port for instance is not exactly lethal. But really, show me a serious alternative to the power and range of the ACM, MSuper, and Monster. Absolutely none exist for the ACM and Monster. One could argue that the new KS18S competes with the MSuper, but I have my doubts, particularly if you like full performance through 15% battery. That's why I buy Gotway. They are like finicky high performance sports cars. I'm OK with that at least until there's a serious alternative. Performance/acceleration wise i would say the KS18S is between the V3 and the V3s+..... It beats my V3 easy...but i doubt it will beat any of the 84V Gw's ...that was to be exspected! But: Quality and safety Wise...its the highest performance wheel on the market and none of the GW wheel has just a little chance to get on this head start! I will start a review/diary/mod thread about the 18S soon....unfortunately have been very busy last days, and only able to drive about 80km until now :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, KingSong69 said: Performance/acceleration wise i would say the KS18S is between the V3 and the V3s+..... It beats my V3 easy...but i doubt it will beat any of the 84V Gw's ...that was to be exspected! But: Quality and safety Wise...its the highest performance wheel on the market and none of the GW wheel has just a little chance to get on this head start! I will start a review/diary/mod thread about the 18S soon....unfortunately have been very busy last days, and only able to drive about 80km until now :-) I knew you would comment @KingSong69 . For me it's power, handling, and range. The KS18S is probably good enough for me in power and handling (I'll wait to read what you say regarding nimbleness), but range means unencumbered range. Once the wheel throttles down my ride is essentially over. I REALLY wish KingSong would provide an override. Safety is not a concern with me when comparing the wheels since I don't think the Gotway wheels are death traps. And I can handle the quality issues. It's Power, Handling, and Unencumbered Range. Can't wait to start reading what you have to say about the 18S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I knew you would comment @KingSong69 . For me it's power, handling, and range. The KS18S is probably good enough for me in power and handling (I'll wait to read what you say regarding nimbleness), but range means unencumbered range. Once the wheel throttles down my ride is essentially over. I REALLY wish KingSong would provide an override. Safety is not a concern with me when comparing the wheels since I don't think the Gotway wheels are death traps. And I can handle the quality issues. It's Power, Handling, and Unencumbered Range. Can't wait to start reading what you have to say about the 18S Haha...and i knew you would react ;-) yeah, its just a question of time..receiving a trolley in one or two days, will start thread with modding of mudguard and trolley then to get all into one:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: So in a way, Gotways aren't actually crappy as long as they aren't crappy (and we know when they are crappy) if that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 My biggest question is why hasn't Gotway hired @zlymex on as a consultant to help identify weak spots in current designs and to assist in quality control measures for future models? It looks like zlymex has a good team of stress test riders, and he's a wealth of information. Kinda like a Chinese version of @esaj. @Linnea Lin Gotway @Jane Mo Why not invite a third party in (zlymex) who can really help avoid a lot of customer issues? Marty Backe and others on the forum are great at soldering and fixing things, but imagine the other customers who aren't able to do so. You could eliminate a lot of unhappy purchasers and problems by getting everything correctly put together from the factory. Dealers would have less headaches to deal with, you would have less warranty costs (improved profit), and improved sales by having excellent quality control assurances. My second biggest question is whether zlymex is interested or has the time to do so as I think he has a full time job already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: My biggest question is why hasn't Gotway hired @zlymex on as a consultant to help identify weak spots in current designs and to assist in quality control measures for future models? It looks like zlymex has a good team of stress test riders, and he's a wealth of information. Kinda like a Chinese version of @esaj. @Linnea Lin Gotway @Jane Mo Why not invite a third party in (zlymex) who can really help avoid a lot of customer issues? Marty Backe and others on the forum are great at soldering and fixing things, but imagine the other customers who aren't able to do so. You could eliminate a lot of unhappy purchasers and problems by getting everything correctly put together from the factory. Dealers would have less headaches to deal with, you would have less warranty costs (improved profit), and improved sales by having excellent quality control assurances. My second biggest question is whether zlymex is interested or has the time to do so as I think he has a full time job already? Thank you for the comments. We(the local team here) are actually having a good communication(over WeChat mainly) with Gotway and they seem well aware of the problems(from feedback of other areas as well). They were constantly modifying the hardware of ACM and V3, for instance connectors, MOSFETs, parallel resistors of the current sensors, apart from modifying the firmware. One thing for sure is that Gotway is never hesitate in sending us new boards for replacement in case of miss function of their EUCs, and they even send us several 84V version upgrade sets (board and thick covers, and directly by passing the dealers) for trial. Gotway is Guangzhou base(at first) where hills are few, and southern people on average are light in weight. There are a lot hills here and we have some heavy Gotway owners(110kg to 125kg), good for EUC testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Thanks @zlymex for the reply. Do you think they have already addressed this charging port weakness and improved the wire gauge from the port for faster chargers in currently released models? I think @Catlord17 also received a wheel recently, but it seems to be experience some charging issues from the get go. I wonder if his problem might be related to the charging port as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, zlymex said: Thank you for the comments. We(the local team here) are actually having a good communication(over WeChat mainly) with Gotway and they seem well aware of the problems(from feedback of other areas as well). They were constantly modifying the hardware of ACM and V3, for instance connectors, MOSFETs, parallel resistors of the current sensors, apart from modifying the firmware. One thing for sure is that Gotway is never hesitate in sending us new boards for replacement in case of miss function of their EUCs, and they even send us several 84V version upgrade sets (board and thick covers, and directly by passing the dealers) for trial. Gotway is Guangzhou base(at first) where hills are few, and southern people on average are light in weight. There are a lot hills here and we have some heavy Gotway owners(110kg to 125kg), good for EUC testing. This is very encouraging to read Hopefully they know that they have some passionate supporters (like me) in the West that really enjoy their wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Thanks @zlymex for the reply. Do you think they have already addressed this charging port weakness and improved the wire gauge from the port for faster chargers in currently released models? I think @Catlord17 also received a wheel recently, but it seems to be experience some charging issues from the get go. I wonder if his problem might be related to the charging port as well? FYI, my ACM was made about 1/2 year ago so it may not represent current manufacturing processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Did you find with your new MSuper that the charging port connection has improved? Are they using thicker wires in the new batch? It just seemed like your report of incomplete charging was somewhat similar to what Catlord mentioned. I just thought there might be a parallel there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: The surprises never cease... It's funny because I just shipped myself back that test ACMs+ last week, the plan was that if I could get through the work backlog from the Firmware mess (sorry for radio silence, that's why I haven't been on the forum recently), I was going to pull out the thermal camera & test the 5A current charging. 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: That would be interesting to see. 5 amps will probably work fine I have partially tested that: I believe it's safe to pass 5A thru the SM2P connector and even a little higher current such as 6A/7A thru that 20AWG wire because it is silicone insulated(rated at 200C). The BMS of one battery pack can take 5A well because there is only one MOSFET sitting in between acting as a switch(and is always 'on' in normal conditions). That MOSFET is MTB55N06Z(55A, 60V, and with typical 14mOhm on resistance), which will dissipate only about 0.35Watt when there is a 5A charge current. Note too that there are two battery packs in parallel in many Gotway EUCs(such as 820Wh and up), the charge current will be shared making it possible to charge at 10A as far as the BMS is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Did you find with your new MSuper that the charging port connection has improved? Are they using thicker wires in the new batch? It just seemed like your report of incomplete charging was somewhat similar to what Catlord mentioned. I just thought there might be a parallel there. If you're referring to me, I have not opened my new MSuper yet so I can't say. Somehow I doubt that they've changed the battery wiring. The incomplete charging was on my ACM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Thanks @zlymex for the reply. Do you think they have already addressed this charging port weakness and improved the wire gauge from the port for faster chargers in currently released models? I'm not sure about that being not very active for the last 6 months or so. I did put up the thermal photo(as above) for them but We didn't address that or asking them explicitly to modify the wire/connectors, that will sound like making a fool of them. I think Gotway is not encouraging people to use fast charger or external battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, zlymex said: I'm not sure about that being not very active for the last 6 months or so. I did put up the thermal photo(as above) for them but We didn't address that or asking them explicitly to modify the wire/connectors, that will sound like making a fool of them. I think Gotway is not encouraging people to use fast charger or external battery. Yet they have to realize that charging the 2400wh Monster for 20 hours is a bit excessive. Hopefully when they deplete their stock of existing chargers they will think about ordering some 3+ amp chargers. We can hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 40 minutes ago, zlymex said: I'm not sure about that being not very active for the last 6 months or so. I did put up the thermal photo(as above) for them but We didn't address that or asking them explicitly to modify the wire/connectors, that will sound like making a fool of them. I think Gotway is not encouraging people to use fast charger or external battery. I understand about that, and certainly we don't want to have them lose face. That's certainly not our intent. I think we all want to see them improve and produce reliable products that are safe, reliable and competitive. For me, after seeing Marty's charging port soldering quality along with Rehab1/Supersport mentioning similar things I simply see it as a weak spot that could be easily fixed for the benefit of both Gotway and customers. A poor connection there would explain incomplete charging and intermittant issues. Even on my Ninebot, the pins are so tiny, I very carefully plug the charger plug in so I don't damage anything. I just think for a couple of bucks more, a heavy duty charging port could be used that is 100% reliable without any need for a customer to repair it. On a wheel that costs $1500-2000 I think that's pretty reasonable. Just imagine if you bought a $100,000 Telsa, and the charging port broke after a couple of uses? I think if you ask someone if they mind paying $1810 vs $1800, with the extra $10 going towards a heavy duty waterproof charging port with thick wiring to allow fast charging without any trouble 100% of the time, I bet they wouldn't mind paying the $10. Or even if they charged $500 for a "Western" standard wheel with improvements so that the user doesn't need to take apart his wheel to fix it every so often, I bet people would pay for that extra quality assurance. EDIT: If anyone is curious about what "face" is all about here's a link: https://chinaculturecorner.com/2013/10/10/face-in-chinese-business/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I think @Catlord17 also received a wheel recently, but it seems to be experience some charging issues from the get go. I wonder if his problem might be related to the charging port as well? It is not the charge port in this case. On first charge, some wheels (mine and I've heard of another here) stop charging at increasing percentages, but after you're at 100% once, it's gone. If anything, it's maybe something with the BMS, or some non-electronic (chemical) reason. But the behavior is not consistent with a broken charge port (charging works, just not to 100% initially). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalewalker Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 On 2017-7-19 at 4:42 AM, SuperSport said: I feel like they are getting better, but each time they figure out one thing, another pops up. At least they are persistent. Not sure how they are getting better.. their assembly team clearly has a bad egg in it that doesn't know how to solder to save his life or more to the point the lifes of who ever buys the wheels they attempt to solder. Gotway NEED to figure out who it is and let them go or at least put them on stickers instead. They already fuck those up but at least an upside down sticker isn't endangering peoples lives. This bad egg doing shitty soldering along with gotway thinking QC only involves putting a "QC passed" lable on there wheels and the obvious lack of pre testing has made them go from "the best" to nothing more than high spec wheels built to shitty no name clone standards. High speed and poor quality is a dangerous mix. If they started making their high spec wheels to kingsong and ninebot standard and quality they would be great again but until then i wouldnt put a loved one on a gotway because i couldn't forgive myself if it cut out and they got hurt bad. Because of these FACTS i have stopped selling gotway until i am satisfied they have got their act together, improved there quality, QC and start testing alterations on there wheels BEFORE they send them to customers to be SURE there is no problems that will result in people getting hurt because of their neglect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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