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Gotway ACM/MSuper/Monster Charge Port Concerns


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I had a hard time deciding what to label this post. Hopefully I captured the proper spirit of the information I'm providing here. Although this post is specific to my ACM experience, the MSuper and Monster uses the same hardware and unskilled Gotway labor, so I think it applies there to. Do you think it's a stretch to say that it applies to all Gotway wheels :confused1:

Yesterday I reported that I was not able to charge my ACM

I partially opened it to troubleshoot and eventually determined that one of the two wires going to the charge port was loose. Wiggle it just right and I could charge the wheel. So guess what I get to do? Yep, tear down the ACM  :furious:

So here's my ACM on the bench again. Doesn't it look pretty?

IMG_9330

What I'm about to describe will not be a surprise to any of you Gotway lovers out there ;). At this point I take it all in stride and laugh. If only these wheels weren't the adrenaline machines that they are I'd have other options.

I had to peel away the standard hot glue that is the Gotway adhesive of choice and then the lose wire simply fell away. Hmmm.

I grabbed my 100mm Canon macro lens and took a couple pictures for you folks. @Rehab1 was interested in some pics and @Jason McNeil might also be interested because of the Fast Charger that you provide.

First is the wire that goes into the solder socket of the charge port. A nice looking cold solder joint that made zero bond with the charge port socket.

IMG_2408

And here is the charge port. Notice all the beautiful solder in there? Oh wait, yeah, there is none

IMG_2410

You have to love Gotway workmanship and quality control. I know, I'm rehashing old news, but allow me some laughs at their expense for the inconvenience that they put me through :D

Are we really to believe that the motor bullet connectors don't fall prey to the same crappy workmanship, even if only on Mondays? For those who aren't familiar with the background, the bullet connectors require the same soldering capability that is so aptly demonstrated here. I'm happy with my choice to cut out the connectors and solder everything. It's all blurring together in my mind - maybe the motor connectors are crimped now? Yeah, I think so. Good news, because this is just another example of why Gotway employees should not be allowed near a soldering iron ;)

So clearly the hot glue was maintaining a mechanical connection between the connector and the wire. After six or so months it finally gave out.

Because of the mess of removing hot glue (why in Gods name is hot glue required anywhere in a wheel instead of mechanical fasteners?) I opted to not touch the other wire. I'll cross my fingers that the person got that one right. It feels solid for whatever that's worth.

The next point is well known to many of you I'm sure but I'll state it here again. The wire going to the charge port and to all the batteries is 20 gauge wire. I counted 18 strands. Solid (1 strand) 20 gauge wire is good for ~6 amps. 18 strand wire is good for ~3 to 4 amps.

I ever so briefly contemplated replacing the wiring but that would entail a huge amount of work, including opening each battery.

I don't think it's wise to push 5 amps (EWheels 5 amp charger) through these wires. Not for extended periods anyway. I've been using the Fast Charger at the 4 amp setting and I'll continue to use that. 5 amps would probably be OK, but we're starting to operate at the margins now. I'll stay a little on the conservative side and stick with 4 amps max.

I don't think there's much more for me to learn about the ACM, so please Gotway Gods, leave me alone for awhile :angry:

EDIT: I forgot to mention that my fix was to properly solder the wire to the charge port. Easy peasy :D

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10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The next point is well known to many of you I'm sure but I'll state it here again. The wire going to the charge port and to all the batteries is 20 gauge wire. I counted 18 strands. Solid (1 strand) 20 gauge wire is good for ~6 amps. 18 strand wire is good for ~3 to 4 amps.

I ever so briefly contemplated replacing the wiring but that would entail a huge amount of work, including opening each battery.

I don't think it's wise to push 5 amps (EWheels 5 amp charger) through these wires. Not for extended periods anyway. I've been using the Fast Charger at the 4 amp setting and I'll continue to use that. 5 amps would probably be OK, but we're starting to operate at the margins now. I'll stay a little on the conservative side and stick with 4 amps max.

Not to mention the port... even if you replace the wires with thicker gauge, the GX-16's are rated for 5A max (7A according to some sources, ie. Aliexpress sellers, but that sounds like pushing it). Above that, the charge port may overheat, melt the plastics and short.

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Just now, KingSong69 said:

They GOT WAY to many Problems :-)

But most wheels use GX-16's anyway, maybe with a different number of pins, but they seem to always just use 2 pins, whether it's 3/4/5-pin GX-16... :P  I think 1RadWerkstatt used either different connectors or two or more GX-16's in parallel for their high-power chargers, at least I recall that at some point they had 8A charger for the old MSuper V2, but it required two charge ports?

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8 minutes ago, esaj said:

But most wheels use GX-16's anyway, maybe with a different number of pins, but they seem to always just use 2 pins, whether it's 3/4/5-pin GX-16... :P  I think 1RadWerkstatt used either different connectors or two or more GX-16's in parallel for their high-power chargers, at least I recall that at some point they had 8A charger for the old MSuper V2, but it required two charge ports?

For the Monster 2400wh they had an 13 Amp Charger Option...here they used a different connector, they showed that on their FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/1radwerkstatt/

 

 

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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

For the Monster 2400wh they had an 13 Amp Charger Option...here they used a different connector, they showed that on their FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/1radwerkstatt/

 

 

Why don't we have a seller like that in the United States? :(

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

So here's my ACM on the bench again. Doesn't it look pretty?

That looks familiar.

 

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

First is the wire that goes into the solder socket of the charge port. A nice looking cold solder joint that made zero bond with the charge port socket.

 

How many more inferior components and maladroit assemblies are hidden within our wheels? My message to Gotway!

qdv5NTD.jpg

 

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4 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

That looks familiar.

 

How many more inferior components and maladroit assemblies are hidden within our wheels? My message to Gotway!

qdv5NTD.jpg

 

:roflmao:  Oh God, it took me a second to see what you did there. You're killing me :D

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This is not surprise to me at all as I had similar situation with my V3.
GX16-3-V3.jpg.b51f8dc2721695420bde821c4828f3a5.jpg

- The charge socket(GX16-3) is of poor quality(the metal wall is thinner than usual and the plastic core is easily comes loose) -- I changed it
- the solder joint is not good, too less time when soldering
- the hot glue is not applied well, too cool and/or too less time.
- the wires connecting the socket is thin(20AWG) -- I changed to 16AWG.
- there is a plug/socket pair SM2P that is the bottle neck IMO that easily get hot if the charge current is large(as in the case of fast charger or external battery pack) -- I changed to GX16-4 pair.

As for the max current of GX16, @esaj once said it is 7A. However, I've tested with 10A and monitored with my IR camera that the temperature rise is small(about 15C), 

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8 hours ago, esaj said:

Not to mention the port... even if you replace the wires with thicker gauge, the GX-16's are rated for 5A max (7A according to some sources, ie. Aliexpress sellers, but that sounds like pushing it). Above that, the charge port may overheat, melt the plastics and short.

Here is my IR photo when passing thru both wires of the GX-16-3 pair at 10A for some time.

The ambient temperature is 24.8C, spot 1 is the plastic socket, spot 2 is the heat shrink tube wrapped around the metal case of the soket(metal is not good for temperature reading). The hottest spot is the 18AWG wires(40.8C) which is for test only. I actually use 16AWG and GX16-4 for my V3s+.
GX16-3-10A.jpg.4f4864bcaaa629679ba574d0eb9d2e99.jpg

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

:roflmao:  Oh God, it took me a second to see what you did there. You're killing me :D

I know... sick humor. My drawing skills are horrendous!:crying:

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9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The next point is well known to many of you I'm sure but I'll state it here again. The wire going to the charge port and to all the batteries is 20 gauge wire. I counted 18 strands. Solid (1 strand) 20 gauge wire is good for ~6 amps. 18 strand wire is good for ~3 to 4 amps.

I ever so briefly contemplated replacing the wiring but that would entail a huge amount of work, including opening each battery.

It is not necessary to open the battery. The path goes like this(for my V3 of 820Wh at least):
The charge port --> 20AWG wires --> SM2P socket/plug --> 20AWG wires --> two soldered 'Y' joints --> two pairs of 20AWG wires that goes to each battery.

Therefore, the replacement is necessary only to the 'Y' joints.

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1 hour ago, zlymex said:

It is not necessary to open the battery. The path goes like this(for my V3 of 820Wh at least):
The charge port --> 20AWG wires --> SM2P socket/plug --> 20AWG wires --> two soldered 'Y' joints --> two pairs of 20AWG wires that goes to each battery.

Therefore, the replacement is necessary only to the 'Y' joints.

That's good to know. I'm still leaving the wiring alone for now. Who knows the future thought ...

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1 hour ago, zlymex said:

Here is my IR photo when passing thru both wires of the GX-16-3 pair at 10A for some time.

The ambient temperature is 24.8C, spot 1 is the plastic socket, spot 2 is the heat shrink tube wrapped around the metal case of the soket(metal is not good for temperature reading). The hottest spot is the 18AWG wires(40.8C) which is for test only. I actually use 16AWG and GX16-4 for my V3s+.
GX16-3-10A.jpg.4f4864bcaaa629679ba574d0eb9d2e99.jpg

Love your detailed posts @zlymex :cheers:

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For what it's worth, mine had the exact same problem when I bought it.  The solder on the wires was never bonded to the port.  When I tore mine down to paint the panels, I found this same thing.  Pull off the horrible Hot Glue and the wire fell out.

 

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8 minutes ago, SuperSport said:

For what it's worth, mine had the exact same problem when I bought it.  The solder on the wires was never bonded to the port.  When I tore mine down to paint the panels, I found this same thing.  Pull off the horrible Hot Glue and the wire fell out.

 

Great video. Wish I could summon the energy to customize my wheel(s) too, they get too banged up. I don't want to be afraid to drop a wheel because the finish might get destroyed. Yours looks great though.

The one thing Gotway has is consistency. Consistently crappy workmanship :(

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1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

The one thing Gotway has is consistency. Consistently crappy workmanship :(

I feel like they are getting better, but each time they figure out one thing, another pops up.  At least they are persistent. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Great video. Wish I could summon the energy to customize my wheel(s) too, they get too banged up. I don't want to be afraid to drop a wheel because the finish might get destroyed. Yours looks great though.

The one thing Gotway has is consistency. Consistently crappy workmanship :(

And you're still buying them? Why? They seem positively lethal.

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@LanghamP

  • Performance and looks:D
  • Due to their simple construction, Gotways are the best for having fun with modding. Lots of space left in the shells too. Try adding a new fan or whatever to a Kingsong or Inmotion.
  • In the end, EUCs are simple and extremely reliable once working. Also reliable is what we know about each wheel and what can go wrong. The Gotway crappyness is a known quantity. No random or unexpected happenings. A very calculable crappyness. So in a way, Gotways aren't actually crappy as long as they aren't crappy (and we know when they are crappy) if that makes sense;)
  • Who else would test the wheels of the sketchy exciting manufacturers? The manufacturers themselves? Ha!
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1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

And you're still buying them? Why? They seem positively lethal.

The charge port for instance is not exactly lethal.

But really, show me a serious alternative to the power and range of the ACM, MSuper, and Monster. Absolutely none exist for the ACM and Monster. One could argue that the new KS18S competes with the MSuper, but I have my doubts, particularly if you like full performance through 15% battery.

That's why I buy Gotway. They are like finicky high performance sports cars. I'm OK with that at least until there's a serious alternative. 

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