steve454 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Scatcat said: 16 hours ago, 陈小杰 said: @Scatcat You have the photo in the gasket we have replaced, you can contact the seller Chen. The phenomenon in the video, the gyroscope is shaken, try to fix the controller and the housing screws. It so happened that the board was very loose. That's interesting to find out that a loose board can have that effect. At least we'll know when you test it. I hope it works well. That's some good support you have there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, steve454 said: That's interesting to find out that a loose board can have that effect. At least we'll know when you test it. I hope it works well. That's some good support you have there. Yes, now TWO people associated with Rockwheel have chimed in and helped. I'm astounded and very happy with both of them. Kudos to you @陈小杰 and to Yi Chen. That is the kind of care that makes a customer happy! I went from "was I stupid to choose a Rockwheel GT16?", to "maybe I was smarter than I think!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Scatcat said: It so happened that the board was very loose. I have no idea why it happened now and not earlier. From what I could see, the screw to the right, MOSFETs upwards was loose, but the one in the middle was VERY loose. Too loose to be explained by just vibrations, and also stuck. My guess is that the threads stuck when the board was screwed down originally, and the person attaching it thought that the screw was tight. I unscrewed it and got it to sit correctly in the threads, then it could be screwed down tight. The other one seems to have been tight, but only when the edge of the board overlapped the edge of the rim with a few tenths of a millimeter. My best guess is that the bump made the board move into its intended seating, thereby making both screws loose. When I'm done cleaning and assembling the motor, I will assemble and test. It wouldn't surprise me if that did the trick. But I hope I haven't damaged any solder-points with the vibrations. If so, I may have to resolder or replace the board. We'll see. I don't know what it is with the Chinese but they seem averse to using thread locker. When I took apart my ACM, on the non-control board side, three of the seven screws that attach the shell to the pedal bracket were very loose. One was on the verge of falling out. The others were not lose but if I had a torque wrench they would have registered at zero. Glad that it looks like you may have found the problem. Great perseverance on your part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Scatcat said: Let's play a game. Find the washer. All the splinters to the lower right came of the magnets. Since there was a request for it, here is what the bearings look like, and the washer on the bearing and on the axle: I think one of the broken washers must have flattened enough to touch the part of the bearing that actually spins. The lubrication would not have been enough to save such a thin piece of metal for very long - so crack, snap, disintegrate... Great pictures. Now I finally fully understand what you've been dealing and where the washers came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Maybe you should take this opportunity and put a different tire on the wheel. Didn't you say that you wish you have a more off-road tire, or maybe I'm thinking of someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Thanks for the photos. Yeeks those magnet surfaces are all marred up. I would guess that the wave / spring washer is to brace the inner ring of the bearing against the stator so it doesn't spin around the axle. I take it that the motor covers slide on pretty easily? I bet that the bearing didn't apply enough force on the wave/spring washer so when the motor cover is spinning around, the inner support ring of the bearing likely spun too creating heat and friction on the washer leading to its demise. Usually these bearings should be pretty tightly pressure fit onto the axles, but if they are too tight it would require a bearing press to remove them. I guess that's why they have the wave/spring washer to try to apply some anti-rotational locking force onto the inner support ring to prevent wear on the axle. Maybe a more durable, thicker replacement washer would help. I was thinking that applying Loctite to the axle where the bearing sits would be too difficult to remove in the future so scratch that idea. Not using the washers would allow the inner ring to spin around the axle creating friction and wear which is not a good idea. You really want the inner ring to be stationary against the axle and let the ball bearings roll around it. @Rehab1 - what do they use in the ACM16 to lock the inner support ring of the bearing to the axle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 For now I've left the washers out. However I need to find a suitable replacement. The right bearing sat super-tight on the axle, it was really hard to take off. The left side, the side that failed was not as hard, but neither did it have any play. It just sat loosely enough for me to get it off without having to behave like a weight lifter. Whatever I use, will have to be something that wont splinter into a thousand magnetic pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Rehab1 - what do they use in the ACM16 to lock the inner support ring of the bearing to the axle? My ACM bearings are press fitted into the outer motor housing. There were no wave washers. I would rather use JB Weld metal epoxy on the outer surface of the bearing to secure it in place than trust a wave washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 @陈小杰 It seems you're on to something. Tightening the board made a big difference, but not enough. I'm not sure if I tightened it enough, I didn't really use force, just screwed it down until I couldn't feel the board wiggle. Is there support under the board, so that I can screw it down tighter? And where on the board are the gyros. Might it be a good idea to give that part some form of extra support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: My ACM bearings are press fitted into the outer motor housing. There were no wave washers. I would rather use JB Weld metal epoxy on the outer surface of the bearing to secure it in place than trust a wave washer. Oh, these are press fitted into the motor covers alright. The wave washers where between the inner ring on the inside and the stator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Scatcat said: For now I've left the washers out. However I need to find a suitable replacement. The right bearing sat super-tight on the axle, it was really hard to take off. The left side, the side that failed was not as hard, but neither did it have any play. It just sat loosely enough for me to get it off without having to behave like a weight lifter. Whatever I use, will have to be something that wont splinter into a thousand magnetic pieces. I would fill it with washer shims until it fills the gap between the stator shaft and the bearing face. You can do it by installing the 1/2 of the cover and view with a mirror until the gap is filled but not so much that the cover is not lifted more than 0.001 inch gap. That way when the cover is screwed it firmly binds the inner race against the stator. Also the outer race should be firmly locked into the cover piece. If either are loose its no good and you need to repair. If it was my wheel I would buy new bearings and if they don't pressure squizze tightly I would epoxy in permanently. No worries. You can soften the epoxy with heat if necessary. Not an issue since the other solution is a new motor. I would use JB-weld metal epoxy. Not a simple procedure. Clean all grease out of the shaft and the cover where bearing will be glued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Scatcat said: @陈小杰 It seems you're on to something. Tightening the board made a big difference, but not enough. I'm not sure if I tightened it enough, I didn't really use force, just screwed it down until I couldn't feel the board wiggle. Is there support under the board, so that I can screw it down tighter? And where on the board are the gyros. Might it be a good idea to give that part some form of extra support? I am concerned that there is heat paste migrating into the MOSFETS is there is conduction it might be such as to not be catastrofic but maybe one MOSFET is damaged coasting only oscillations indeed specific loads. There should be no paste on the MOSFETS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Scatcat said: IAnd where on the board are the gyros. Might it be a good idea to give that part some form of extra support? Judging by size/packaging only, the gyro/accelerometer-chip is likely U3, seen on left middle next to the MCU. No need to support it separately, it's sitting there pretty tightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 hour ago, esaj said: Judging by size/packaging only, the gyro/accelerometer-chip is likely U3, seen on left middle next to the MCU. No need to support it separately, it's sitting there pretty tightly Actually it isn't sitting that tight. I was afraid to fasten the middle screw too tightly, as I was unsure about spacers and supports below the card. I think I will use a mirror and a torch and look under it to see if I can tighten it harder without bending the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Scatcat said: Oh, these are press fitted into the motor covers alright. The wave washers where between the inner ring on the inside and the stator. I need to take a closer look at my old ACM motor and then take a photo. Amazing how many different configurations for motor assemblies are out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 I DO have some serious muscle in my corner now. Both Ciao-Jie Chen and Yi Chen have my case and are acting like heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Rehab1 said: I need to take a closer look at my old ACM motor and then take a photo. Amazing how many different configurations for motor assemblies are out there. And still they all follow the same basic configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Scatcat said: I DO have some serious muscle in my corner now. Both Ciao-Jie Chen and Yi Chen have my case and are acting like heroes. Don't forget you're helping them as well, beta testing their new wheel... But great to see they are interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Don't forget you're helping them as well, beta testing their new wheel... But great to see they are interested! Aren't we all beta testing all the new wheels all the time like? Showing care and interest in what happens, that is more uncommon and very appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 Well, my efforts to fix my wheel without outside support has now officially ended. I took it apart and tightened the screws to the board as much as I dared, and even 3Med a small piece of non-conductive foam against the free side of the board to dampen any vibrations. The motor is clean and all else seems good. So now during the early hours of the night, when there were no other people around, I took it out into the yard to see if it worked. I turned it on, moved it forward and backward and immediately felt a tremor. But I decided to step on it to see if my weight would be enough to stabilise it. Just testing you know. Then it decided to scare the living daylights out of me. Because just as I placed my right foot on the pedal and tried the balance of the foot as I use to do, it decided to go on without me... like a bat out of hell, or maybe a cannon ball. Luckily it hit my bike after no more than a meter, climbed it like spiderman and overturned it, did a somersault and ended up on the trolley and tipped to the side. Otherwise it would probably have hit the wall across the yard at max speed. I think I may need a new trolley I will NOT turn that machine on again before it has a new board, the gyro seems a bit "iffy" to make an understatement of a few thousand percent. It was not this violent before I tightened it down. I am very happy that I decided not to try it with any people around, the thought of a wheel possessed among kids and neighbours... brrrrr! So this one is in the mental institution until it can be properly exorcised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Scatcat said: Well, my efforts to fix my wheel without outside support has now officially ended. I took it apart and tightened the screws to the board as much as I dared, and even 3Med a small piece of non-conductive foam against the free side of the board to dampen any vibrations. The motor is clean and all else seems good. So now during the early hours of the night, when there were no other people around, I took it out into the yard to see if it worked. I turned it on, moved it forward and backward and immediately felt a tremor. But I decided to step on it to see if my weight would be enough to stabilise it. Just testing you know. Then it decided to scare the living daylights out of me. Because just as I placed my right foot on the pedal and tried the balance of the foot as I use to do, it decided to go on without me... like a bat out of hell, or maybe a cannon ball. Luckily it hit my bike after no more than a meter, climbed it like spiderman and overturned it, did a somersault and ended up on the trolley and tipped to the side. Otherwise it would probably have hit the wall across the yard at max speed. I think I may need a new trolley I will NOT turn that machine on again before it has a new board, the gyro seems a bit "iffy" to make an understatement of a few thousand percent. It was not this violent before I tightened it down. I am very happy that I decided not to try it with any people around, the thought of a wheel possessed among kids and neighbours... brrrrr! So this one is in the mental institution until it can be properly exorcised. It's kind of scary how powerful these wheels really are. I hope you're able to resolve this. It must be very frustrating being the only user of one - you don't have other knowledgeable GT16 owners to bounce ideas off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: It's kind of scary how powerful these wheels really are. I hope you're able to resolve this. It must be very frustrating being the only user of one - you don't have other knowledgeable GT16 owners to bounce ideas off of. 2000W is no joke, that's for sure. Nope, no GT16 owners around, only Gotway riders here, and one IM V8 rider. I've asked a friend that sells GWs if I can rent one of his personal wheels for the duration, but if he says no which would be understandable, I'm out of luck. I still haven't sold my IM V3C, but I'm not sure I even can ride dual-wheeled anymore , and going 11mph will feel like crawling on all fours. At least there's help on the way, in the form of Yi Chen and Xiao-Jie Chen @陈小杰. But the distances involved means there is no fast solutions, even if they were to send parts tomorrow, it would take a couple of weeks one way. There is something to be said about having alternatives like you do, it's just that these things COST - and as a father of three there's no lack of holes to put money into. Maybe a better description is "black holes"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Scatcat said: 2000W is no joke, that's for sure. Nope, no GT16 owners around, only Gotway riders here, and one IM V8 rider. I've asked a friend that sells GWs if I can rent one of his personal wheels for the duration, but if he says no which would be understandable, I'm out of luck. I still haven't sold my IM V3C, but I'm not sure I even can ride dual-wheeled anymore , and going 11mph will feel like crawling on all fours. At least there's help on the way, in the form of Yi Chen and Xiao-Jie Chen @陈小杰. But the distances involved means there is no fast solutions, even if they were to send parts tomorrow, it would take a couple of weeks one way. There is something to be said about having alternatives like you do, it's just that these things COST - and as a father of three there's no lack of holes to put money into. Maybe a better description is "black holes"... I sympathize with you. We have no children so I have less 'black holes' to be concerned with It's funny how I was nervous for awhile when I only had my KS14C and Monster to ride. It's all relative isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I sympathize with you. We have no children so I have less 'black holes' to be concerned with It's funny how I was nervous for awhile when I only had my KS14C and Monster to ride. It's all relative isn't it? Well, the priorities becomes different, but I won't say I'm not happy with the way it is. However, I wonder how this will turn out. I can't be without a wheel for much longer, I'm freaking out and it's just been four days now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 At last, all things are in the pipe, and I'll get them in a couple of weeks. On the positive side I'll be upgraded to version 2 of the board and motor. Better wiring, better connectors and so on. Now, how to survive two weeks without my machine? It's almost enough to make me part with the money for an extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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