Blackmagicman Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Hey again! I have fixed the problem with the clamp, the upper part of the pedal arm now. Fortunately I have a friend with a milling machine and he reproduced the parts in steel without to deep drilled holes. Very well done! The Picture shows the old clamp on the left side and the new one right. But the next Problem is not far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmagicman Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 The pedal arm, the lower part, where the footplat is fixed, now makes trouble. The M8 thread insert comes out off the aluminium body when I tried to fix the allen screw. I must think about how to solve this problem now. Fotunately the best ideas come into my mind at night. We will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 On 2017-09-06 at 9:30 PM, Blackmagicman said: The pedal arm, the lower part, where the footplat is fixed, now makes trouble. The M8 thread insert comes out off the aluminium body when I tried to fix the allen screw. I must think about how to solve this problem now. Fotunately the best ideas come into my mind at night. We will see You seem not to be blessed with luck with those pedal arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 On 04/09/2017 at 7:23 PM, Scatcat said: Note to self. If I ever design a EUC: Large diameter shafts. One piece pedal arms. Nice large pedals that provide real grip and relaxed foot positioning. No thread the needle cabling that are partly open to the elements! Large gauge cables overall. Redundancy wherever possible. IP65 as a minimum, preferably better - the ideal would be to make it submersible for at least 30 seconds or so. A shell that can take some real beating. Enough spacing between shell and wheel to avoid having every stone and debris sound like the whole thing is coming apart. Wiiiide tyre, 3" to 4". A motor with 50% more power than ever needed. Think through serviceability, to minimise the hassle of taking the wheel apart or changing parts. Spark protection in charging plugs and power leads. Did I forget something? Not considering a Rockwheel as design template to begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Mono said: Not considering a Rockwheel as design template to begin with? I don't think any current EUC is a good template, not really. But maybe to some extent. There are aspects of many EUCs that would be good to incorporate though. The wide wheel of the upcoming Ninebot. The low centre of gravity placement and upright position of the battery packs in the GT16. The one piece pedal arms from Gotway, and also the huge pedals from the MSuper3. The conformal coating and safety thinking from Kingsong. There's probably other good ideas, the trick is to actually use the good stuff in a single wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Scatcat said: .... The wide wheel of the upcoming Ninebot. ..... A little early to state that i think. The jury has not even conviened, and in all likelyhood this will depend on application/usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 2 hours ago, FreeRide said: A little early to state that i think. The jury has not even conviened, and in all likelyhood this will depend on application/usage. Well... Maybe... But personally I anticipate it will be very, very good - I know I haven't tried it, but that is my take on it. My reasons? Well: Judging from pictures, the geometry of the wheel will in all likelihood provide a very smooth maneuverability, while still being stable. The cushion it provides, will do a lot for trail-riding, clearing pot-holes and going up and down curbs. It should provide superior traction in mud, sand, on gravel and in wet and slippery conditions. There might be cons too, but I expect the pros to carry the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Scatcat said: The one piece pedal arms from Gotway, .... You do realize, that the gotway pedal arms and their way of fixing it to the axle have their own set of problems? I suggest of thinking of a completely new design.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 27 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: You do realize, that the gotway pedal arms and their way of fixing it to the axle have their own set of problems? I suggest of thinking of a completely new design.... Oh, I do realise that! It's just that the two part design that is the current alternative comes with a set of problems that may well be worse. Look at the damage to the pedal arms in the posts above, and tell me that a one piece solution wouldn't be better... Then there's of course the Gotway problem of loosening pedal arm nuts. Thread lock is one solution, and there should be other alternatives that work too. My point was that the weight should be carried by a single piece of metal, securing it to the shaft is another question and there needs to be a solution that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 32 minutes ago, Scatcat said: It's just that the two part design that is the current alternative comes with a set of problems that may well be worse. Look at the damage to the pedal arms in the posts above, and tell me that a one piece solution wouldn't be better... actually all Kingsong pedalarms on actual models are also 2 piece pedalarms, functioning the exact same way as Rockwheel. As i have not heard of any or much problems with pedalarms on the Kingsongs and also never had probs myself on my KS wheels, i guess it is just a thing of producing this 2 piece design the right way, with no or not much tolerances and using the right materials. The actual Gotway method is really bad in my view, on my V3 the nuts get loose, this "wedges" thing clamping the axle got bend...i had to do a lot of maintenance and repairs on this part and others here also. I guess in the end until now the perfect mounting method still needs to be found.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 I have a suggestion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Scatcat said: I don't think any current EUC is a good template, not really. But maybe to some extent. There are aspects of many EUCs that would be good to incorporate though. The wide wheel of the upcoming Ninebot. The low centre of gravity placement and upright position of the battery packs in the GT16. The one piece pedal arms from Gotway, and also the huge pedals from the MSuper3. The conformal coating and safety thinking from Kingsong. There's probably other good ideas, the trick is to actually use the good stuff in a single wheel I must admit that I can't find any obvious design mistake on my InMotion V8 (and I tend to be pretty picky), maybe with the exception of the tight shell spacing which doesn't allow a wider tire (which is rather a design decision than an engineering mistake and pretty trivial to change). On the above list, I believe that lowering the centre of gravity is a non issue and I haven't found the KingSong coating comfortable at all when I tried the KS16. To my taste, the KS16 shell is (much) too wide. The handle seems cute though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 23 minutes ago, Mono said: I must admit that I can't find any obvious design mistake on my InMotion V8 (and I tend to be pretty picky), maybe with the exception of the tight shell spacing which doesn't allow a wider tire (which is rather a design decision than an engineering mistake and pretty trivial to change). On the above list, I believe that lowering the centre of gravity is a non issue and I haven't found the KingSong coating comfortable at all when I tried the KS16. To my taste, the KS16 shell is (much) too wide. The handle seems cute though. Well, I think it's a mistake to use a design that sets such a low limit on possible battery capacity. But I agree that Inmotion's engineering is top-level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Slaughthammer said: I have a suggestion: Clever design, but I see four possible problems: Threading the cables and connectors through the hole will be a pain. Getting the pedal arm on and off the shaft with the kind of tight tolerances needed, will be a pain. You get a point of tension on the bottom side where there are no screws. The pressure that holds the arm to the shaft will be uneven, with the highest pressure on the top-side, this might introduce instability in the joint. But I really like the innovative thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Scatcat said: Well, I think it's a mistake to use a design that sets such a low limit on possible battery capacity. I prefer a wheel weighing 13.5kg with 30km range over a wheel weighing 17kg with 60km range. It may well be that the layout must change entirely to get the latter. I am not sure though as space is not particularly tight in the V8. InMotion had originally promised a changeable battery. If they had delivered on the promise, the optional range would be double or triple or anything we wanted it to be. That would be nice to have, indeed, though I wouldn't use it very often anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 43 minutes ago, Mono said: I prefer a wheel weighing 13.5kg with 30km range over a wheel weighing 17kg with 60km range. It may well be that the layout must change entirely to get the latter. I am not sure though as space is not particularly tight in the V8. InMotion had originally promised a changeable battery. If they had delivered on the promise, the optional range would be double or triple or anything we wanted it to be. That would be nice to have, indeed, though I wouldn't use it very often anyways. I prefer the 17kg wheel with more range and power. Well, that is the beauty of EUCs, you get your ideal satisfied, and I get mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 38 minutes ago, Scatcat said: I prefer the 17kg wheel with more range and power. Well, that is the beauty of EUCs, you get your ideal satisfied, and I get mine. Exactly right, that is a matter of preference, and I don't consider making a preference decision as a design mistake If I were a decision maker for an EUC brand which wants to grow, I wouldn't aim for the high end ranges, but for the low end weights. Taking the V8 as a reference, the obstacle to market growth is IMHO not anymore lacking range or power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 13 hours ago, Mono said: Exactly right, that is a matter of preference, and I don't consider making a preference decision as a design mistake If I were a decision maker for an EUC brand which wants to grow, I wouldn't aim for the high end ranges, but for the low end weights. Taking the V8 as a reference, the obstacle to market growth is IMHO not anymore lacking range or power. Well, yeah. I think it's easy to extrapolate from your own preferences, which I managed to do... Sorry about that. I think it depends a bit on how you use the wheel. For me, while I ride for fun too, I use it everyday for commuting to work. It's about 6-7 miles one way, so I ride 12-14 miles every day, sometimes more. While that would be possible even with 480Wh, I like to have a reasonable charge left that allow me to cruise at 18-20mph or so, without worrying about pushing it to the edge. I also want stability, grip and comfort, since those characteristics makes my journey both more relaxed and safer. A low center of gravity helps with that, so does a wider, larger tyre. The conditions here right now are wet with the first autumn leaves, mud where's there no asphalt and so on - rather shitty really. So that's why my list of preferable characteristics include large batteries, strong motor and fat tyre. If that can be done without loosing too much agility and flexibility, then I'm sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, Scatcat said: I also want stability, grip and comfort, since those characteristics makes my journey both more relaxed and safer. A low center of gravity helps with that How do you know this? I don't see the reason why the center of gravity should be relevant for any of this and hence the KS18 should be less stable or less comfortable than other wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 11 hours ago, Mono said: How do you know this? I don't see the reason why the center of gravity should be relevant for any of this and hence the KS18 should be less stable or less comfortable than other wheels. The short and honest answer is: I don't. I've tried a few wheels, but my main experience is GT16 - which does have a rather low centre of gravity. I feel it helps, but I may be wrong. KS18 though, seem to be a bit special, with the rather tall design, where the pads comes higher up on the legs. I can well see that such a configuration would be very stable too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 14 hours ago, Scatcat said: I use it everyday for commuting to work. It's about 6-7 miles one way, so I ride 12-14 miles every day, sometimes more. While that would be possible even with 480Wh, I like to have a reasonable charge left that allow me to cruise at 18-20mph or so, without worrying about pushing it to the edge. To this problem I have a simple solution: a second charger in the office. And before you start wondering: the InMotion charger is 100% noiseless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 12 hours ago, Mono said: To this problem I have a simple solution: a second charger in the office. And before you start wondering: the InMotion charger is 100% noiseless. Oh, I know it's noiseless, still have a IM V3C standing around... But if anything, I'd like to up the battery capacity, not the other way around. I really don't mind the weight of the wheel, or the width, as long as it is controllable and stable. The GT16 may weigh in at 17-17.5kg, but it's super-controllable. I tested turning radius today (leaning turn, not twist). I got it down to about 6 feet in continuous turn. Short turns can be made even tighter. At speed the radius is of course wider, but it's still very sharp. If I want to play with more agility, I'd get myself a new Mten3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 09/09/2017 at 9:19 PM, Scatcat said: I prefer the 17kg wheel with more range and power. Well, that is the beauty of EUCs, you get your ideal satisfied, and I get mine. It all depends on if you use your euc as an A to B transportation device or an A to A transportation device. It's a bit like cars. Not many people would say no to a Ferrari in the weekends. But how many people would prefer the Ferrari for a daily commute in heavy traffic, through narrow streets and with small parking spaces at your destination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 4 hours ago, ir_fuel said: It all depends on if you use your euc as an A to B transportation device or an A to A transportation device. It's a bit like cars. Not many people would say no to a Ferrari in the weekends. But how many people would prefer the Ferrari for a daily commute in heavy traffic, through narrow streets and with small parking spaces at your destination? Well, a Ferrari 250... I could almost take it's impracticality... But yeah, I've even considered the Monster for range, speed and stability. But carrying that thing up the stairs at work, jeeez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANNA GT16 RM Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Hi guys, at 1800km I also find myself with this problem of the wheel that goes crazy as soon as you jump a sidewalk or you take a series of important holes. I do not like it and it's dangerous ... already I'm cracked a rib falling to 30kmh so I would not find myself face down on the ground because of this flicker. What's the fault of what is imputed? to the broken motherboard or washer that goes its rotor? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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