Slaughthammer Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 33 minutes ago, Scatcat said: They have a total of 80 Samsung INR 18650 30Q. So in reality it's more like 1008 Wh, at least if you use conservative numbers. That's only possible if you assume 4,2V/cell during discharge. Optimistically (or as others say it, nominally) calculated, you get a max capacity of 3,7V*3Ah*80=888Wh, conservatively calculated you go to http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=586 and see that the actual measured capacity for discharge at 3A from 4,2V down to 3V is 9,223Wh, so 80 of that give you realistically 738Wh. However, if they use the 35E (http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=577) instead, they would get a nominal capacity of 3,7V*3,5Ah*80=1036Wh, so that's what I'd assume is done here. But consider, the 35E has an internal resistance of 28mOhms, compared to 18mOhms of the 30Q, therefore the usable capacity for high drain usage is not significantly higher. Again, for 3A discharge you'll get 10,695Wh out of a cell, so the packs give you 856Wh, or just shy of 16% more than the 30Q. Which actually matches with the specification quite well: 3Ah to 3,5Ah is a 16,7% increase. If you take the measured results for a 5A discharge, this difference melts down to 7,4%. The price for the higher capacity is a battery that will create significantly more voltage sag under heavy load, especially in the lower half of a charge cycle. There is a reason I used the 30Q to boost my own wheels battery. In my opinion the best bang for your buck cell right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Hunka loves it! 4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I'm still considering the GT16. Marty hates it! 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: The fact that you're pondering a GT16 purchase but still consider a Gotway too risky somehow disturbs me Meepmeepmayer pushes some buttons! 2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Admit it, you like the GT16 for its looks Hunka takes the bait! 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: You know me too well meepster. Waaaa yes yes I do!!!! I need something sexier! Will Hunka choose the GT16 for it's sexy looks or go with a Gotway because he fears Marty's Gods? Stay tuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 @Slaughthammer All computations I've seen use 3.7V nominal and 2900 mAh or 3500 mAh for the cell types. So it's 3.7*2.9*80 = 858.40 Wh or 3.7*3.5*80 = 1036 Wh which are exactly the capacities they officially have. By "reality" he means 3.6V nominal per cell instead of 3.7V (@Jason McNeil does that too) and you get 835.2 Wh or 1008 Wh. Interesting that "effectively" the capacity is lower if you consider high demand situations. Never seen it that way, must think whether that is a good perspective... @Rehab1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I see now... I clicked it before, but the header description didn't change, and I didn't see any reference to the 1036 Wh. Now I see it. I wonder if they were to epoxy resin the copper coils (to reduce coil whine) and make the case a battery width wider on either side while adding in some sort of decent fender to guard against water splashing they could up that capacity to Gotway standards. The case itself is nice to look at, and the open wheel concept is motorcycle cool, but riding through water that little after-thought of a flimsy fender slide out doesn't cut it. I guess they wanted a minimalist motorcycle style, but changing few things could bring it up a few notches. Yeah, the mud flap/fender is a joke. I don't know if it's better in V2, but it has to be a lot better to even be passable. Mine is laying on a shelf replaced with a make-my-own design. At least mine has enough clearance and actually stops water and mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Bat said: Rockwheel was always below Gotway (which I wouldn't buy either). Gotway at least has some real history and influenced the market, Rockwheel is just trying. But instead focusing on the speed, they both should focus on safety and quality. I hope one day I could say "Gotway is making great devices now". By the way, what happened to your eye on avatar? Is it Google Glass? That's my helmet mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 I'm not sure why people regard Rockwheel as shadier than others. If anything, they seem more interested in feedback and fixing things than most. My GT16 is almost of the first, first generation, except for the test batches. And if it wasn't for the unlikeliest of damage, I'd probably still be riding around happily. Yes it had some details that was a bit happy-go-lucky, but not to a point where I felt worried, or robbed. I have NEVER felt unsafe on my GT16 until the gyro gave up, and even then it didn't give up all at once, but the problem developed over a few days. The metal in the wheel must be regarded as something of a fluke, even with washers that thin nothing bad should happen in 99.99999999% of the motors. Even as that happened, it wasn't instant failure. I've been going uphill at level-ground speeds, even accelerating like crazy, without ever being worried. I have NEVER heard the wheel struggle with delivering enough power. I have never lacked the torque to stop on a dime, or start like a slingshot. They can do better, but I can't say I regret getting one, even with the trouble I'm in currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 On 7/17/2017 at 7:05 PM, Marty Backe said: I don't know what it is with the Chinese but they seem averse to using thread locker. When I took apart my ACM, on the non-control board side, three of the seven screws that attach the shell to the pedal bracket were very loose. One was on the verge of falling out. The others were not lose but if I had a torque wrench they would have registered at zero. Glad that it looks like you may have found the problem. Great perseverance on your part I'm pleased to say that your observation is not the rule in China. Here's the pedal grub screws from my V8 with copious amounts of thread lock seen upon removal. No wonder they were tough to get out! Shame they didn't blow out the machining debris though before they fitted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said: I'm pleased to say that your observation is not the rule in China. Here's the pedal grub screws from my V8 with copious amounts of thread lock seen upon removal. No wonder they were tough to get out! Shame they didn't blow out the machining debris though before they fitted them. Plus 1 for V8's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Plus 1 for V8's And minus one for not bothering to use a bit of compressed air before screwing them in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 17 hours ago, Scatcat said: total of 80 Samsung INR 18650 30Q. So in reality it's more like 1008 Wh, at least if you use conservative num Are you sure? This does not match this would be the first time a chinese company uses THIS cell... I would guess they use the Sanyo/panasonic GA 3500mah cell, which is also used by GW and KS...and would EXACTLY match the number of 1036wh!! 80 x 3.7 x 3500mah = 1036wh! the 30q cell would lead to 888wh with its 3000mah....and only be slightly stronger than the 18650PF 2900mah cell they have on the 858wh version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavour Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 On 20/07/2017 at 3:03 AM, Marty Backe said: That's my helmet mirror I know, I'm just messing with you :-) I thought you'll laugh :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 53 minutes ago, Bat said: I know, I'm just messing with you :-) I thought you'll laugh :-) I did laugh actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 15 hours ago, KingSong69 said: the 30q cell would lead to 888wh with its 3000mah.... Finally we can agree upon this! On 20.7.2017 at 1:27 AM, Slaughthammer said: On 20.7.2017 at 0:54 AM, Scatcat said: They have a total of 80 Samsung INR 18650 30Q. So in reality it's more like 1008 Wh, at least if you use conservative numbers. That's only possible if you assume 4,2V/cell during discharge. Optimistically (or as others say it, nominally) calculated, you get a max capacity of 3,7V*3Ah*80=888Wh edit: ooops, wasn't you who didn't believe my numbers, it was @meepmeepmayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 20 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Are you sure? This does not match this would be the first time a chinese company uses THIS cell... I would guess they use the Sanyo/panasonic GA 3500mah cell, which is also used by GW and KS...and would EXACTLY match the number of 1036wh!! 80 x 3.7 x 3500mah = 1036wh! the 30q cell would lead to 888wh with its 3000mah....and only be slightly stronger than the 18650PF 2900mah cell they have on the 858wh version... I may actually be wrong. I thought I read that it was 30Q, but it wouldn't be the first time my brain comes to premature conclusions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I did laugh actually But the idea of a rear view mirror, speed meter and so on in google glass is actually not that stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Scatcat said: But the idea of a rear view mirror, speed meter and so on in google glass is actually not that stupid! Not completely what you asked for but paired with the Varia Radar you get an idea of vehicles creeping up behind you, plus speed, distance, navigation, and phone notifications. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/530536#overview Wanted it for ages now but can't afford it. Other things keep taking my money! Like EUC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: Not completely what you asked for but paired with the Varia Radar you get an idea of vehicles creeping up behind you, plus speed, distance, navigation, and phone notifications. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/530536#overview Wanted it for ages now but can't afford it. Other things keep taking my money! Like EUC's. That's very cool tech. Besides the Display that you linked to you need the data unit and radar. Easily over $1k total. Ouch. Very drool worthy though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 @Marty Backe For the radar it will actually interface directly. No need for the Edge computer. However that hobbles the other functions considerably. You are right though it adds up. The alternative is the much more capable but less well known standalone Recon Jet ( http://a.co/hb59PAd). Built in GPS and camera but will interface with Bluetooth and ANT+ sensors. Apparently there is a devkit out for it too. Maybe wheel data could be integrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said: @Marty Backe For the radar it will actually interface directly. No need for the Edge computer. However that hobbles the other functions considerably. You are right though it adds up. The alternative is the much more capable but less well known standalone Recon Jet ( http://a.co/hb59PAd). Built in GPS and camera but will interface with Bluetooth and ANT+ sensors. Apparently there is a devkit out for it too. Maybe wheel data could be integrated. It's all interesting, but I'll be sticking with my low tech mirror and Pebble watch. And if I had to choose between my phone and associated apps and my mirror, I would pick the mirror. It gives me continuous situation awareness and whenever I find myself riding without it I feel naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Marty Backe said: It's all interesting, but I'll be sticking with my low tech mirror and Pebble watch. And if I had to choose between my phone and associated apps and my mirror, I would pick the mirror. It gives me continuous situation awareness and whenever I find myself riding without it I feel naked. Once you go mirror, it's hard to go back. I have one too, not exactly like yours, but very much like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 TADADA! Today I got my spare parts! My old motor on the right, the new one on the left. Got a new tire and pedal arms to go with it. Yi Chen was nice enough to screw my new board to a brand new heat-sink. On the right in the plastic bag, are new hall-sensors if I want to refurbish the old motor. That leaves me with a spare motor, wonder what to do with it? So since the biggest weakness of GT16 is waterproofing, I decided to be a bit anal-retentive about it. Some conformal coating circuit board lacquer got sprayed on the board. I didn't remove it to apply lacquer to the bottom, figuring that it won't stop any really bad leaks anyway. But at least if some drops seep in, they wont automatically short anything. Note the masking tape over the open connectors, don't want any plastic inside those... So with the board sprayed against accidental drops, how to minimise the need for it to prove its worth? The control box has a long seam along the lid, that one I don't like. Also the ventilation hole attaches to the shell with a simple labyrinth ridge. That will stop random rain-drops, but not serious splashes or heavy rain. So the very simple and not entirely super-neat solution is black duct-tape. Its adhesive is strong enough to keep water out, and it's flexible enough to mould around irregularities. The same method will make an extra seal around the ventilation hole. And with that I think I have minimised the risk for fatal failures because of normal rain and splashes. To make sure I checked under the power-button, that the seal there (scotch tape) was intact. I should now be able to go in quite heavy rain without worrying I also had to epoxy the shell. As you can see on the picture with the ventilation hole connecting to the shell, two of the screw-holes where broken off. To epoxy them on was not very complicated, but I will eventually replace the shell, since those repairs will never be as strong as the original. The new motor was subtly different, especially the pedal arms. It took me a while to get everything together, and I had to change the order in which I did things a bit. Eventually everything got in place and I did the dreaded connection of batteries to board, got the small spark that I expected, but nothing major. Then started it to see that all was in order. It was. The thing runs like a clock again. I think the new motor and board is even a bit better than the old. Nothing strange there, I had loads of junk in the old motor, didn't I... Two weeks without the wheel, it felt really, really strange to get on it after such a hiatus. But the strangeness lasted no more than a few hundred meters, then all was normal again. My feelings? + + + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Nice job on the re-assembly! Glad to hear you got it all working again. Two weeks is a long time to wait, but for shipping from China that is actually lightning fast! Let us know how it rides compared to the old setup. Excellent Karma goes to Rockweel Store and the Chen's! Talk about customer service beyond the call of duty! EDIT: It looks like they used at least connectors and headers on the control board for this version rather than soldering directly to the board. MOSFETs and caps look different as well. Maybe the version you received before was some sort of very early prototype that they wanted to sell off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Scatcat said: The thing runs like a clock again. I think the new motor and board is even a bit better than the old. Congratulations! 2 hours ago, Scatcat said: On the right in the plastic bag, are new hall-sensors if I want to refurbish the old motor. That leaves me with a spare motor, wonder what to do with it? Can you please take a closeup photo of the new hall sensors? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 16 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Congratulations! Can you please take a closeup photo of the new hall sensors? Thanks! There you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 @Scatcat Wow,, nice documentary about your wheel! Good Job! Also very good service from Yi Chen, as always :-) Would you give him a shout Out/greetings from me, "Ulf", the next time you message him, please? he is a great guy for the Euc community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.