meepmeepmayer Posted April 27, 2017 Author Share Posted April 27, 2017 Final update everyone (I sure hope so): got a working wheel again(also it started wet snowing here a few hours ago). The insides look good now, see pictures. The ACMs cable management in general is still... well... how it is (until they redesign this, if they do), but since I'm the only one (known) to have their motor cables melted, you should not interpret too much into this thread. Maybe a few things to take away from this: My new personal limit is: constant inclines have to be 10% or less with the ACM, any more and I no longer trust the cabling. I dont know if that is justified or not, but it should be safe. (Short steeper inclines should be totally ok! And 10% is already a lot.) It can never hurt to occasionally check inside and see how the cables look, at least after some high demand wheel usage. Wear protection, cut outs can happen with any wheel, it's just more or less likely depending on the brand and what you do. Great service from Ian/Speedyfeet in getting this fixed, it was definitely worth buying from a reputable dealer! It seems Gotway are also doing what they can (at the very least when a good dealer is asking them). -- Fake FAQ: Do I think Gotway wheels are unsafe now? - No, so many people are using them and nobody else had this problem. What wheel would you recommend specifically for maximum incline demands (constant incline, not just some incline for a few meters or minutes)? - Kingsong (likely, a warning will prevent a fall and a breaker will at least prevent damage to the wheel otherwise) [This is speculation, I have no KS experience, just their hill videos are convincing] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Final update everyone (I sure hope so): got a working wheel again(also it started wet snowing here a few hours ago). The insides look good now, see pictures. The ACMs cable management in general is still... well... how it is (until they redesign this, if they do), but since I'm the only one (known) to have their motor cables melted, you should not interpret too much into this thread. Maybe a few things to take away from this: My new personal limit is: constant inclines have to be 10% or less with the ACM, any more and I no longer trust the cabling. I dont know if that is justified or not, but it should be safe. (Short steeper inclines should be totally ok! And 10% is already a lot.) It can never hurt to occasionally check inside and see how the cables look, at least after some high demand wheel usage. Wear protection, cut outs can happen with any wheel, it's just more or less likely depending on the brand and what you do. Great service from Ian/Speedyfeet in getting this fixed, it was definitely worth buying from a reputable dealer! It seems Gotway are also doing what they can (at the very least when a good dealer is asking them). -- Fake FAQ: Do I think Gotway wheels are unsafe now? - No, so many people are using them and nobody else had this problem. What wheel would you recommend specifically for maximum incline demands (constant incline, not just some incline for a few meters or minutes)? - Kingsong (likely, a warning will prevent a fall and a breaker will at least prevent damage to the wheel otherwise) [This is speculation, I have no KS experience, just their hill videos are convincing] Congratulations What an ordeal, but now it's done with and you're ready for summer I still think your experience was rare so the likelihood of you having another problem with the ACM is exceedingly small. Enjoy the ACM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 27, 2017 Author Share Posted April 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Congratulations What an ordeal, but now it's done with and you're ready for summer I still think your experience was rare so the likelihood of you having another problem with the ACM is exceedingly small. Enjoy the ACM. Thanks I would not call it an ordeal, just an involuntary but educational wake up call from reality. I won't push the wheel too hard in the future, not worth figuring out the extreme limits of whatever is the weakest link now My usual (did it a few times) mountain tour is around 7% average and has some shorter steeper parts and it worked fine every time, that's enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Moved to Gotway sub-forum (requested by OP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 On 4/27/2017 at 1:14 AM, Marty Backe said: Congratulations What an ordeal, but now it's done with and you're ready for summer I still think your experience was rare so the likelihood of you having another problem with the ACM is exceedingly small. Enjoy the ACM. NICE! @meepmeepmayer I would straighten out the motor A B C cables so they transition in a nice smooth curb. I see the sandwiched the cables at 90 deg in two places. (TERRIBLE). They should not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 On 4/27/2017 at 2:04 AM, meepmeepmayer said: Final update everyone (I sure hope so): got a working wheel again(also it started wet snowing here a few hours ago). Sorry for the late reply. I've been in the woods. That is wonderful news! Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Sorry for the late reply. I've been in the woods. That is wonderful news! Enjoy! Thank you Also no need to apologize, I don't think you are officially required to read and post here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 @Rehab1Is that a stealth dig that I gave up on all the electrical and motor diagrams in your thread lately? I'll be back when your motor arrives (and, as it seems, the surprise other parts you unfortunately need now) -- Tomorrow is official maiden trip time (finally the weather is good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I've just found out that the motor wire(of GW V3) is meltable by touching the tip of my electric iron(set to 340 degree C) for 30 seconds. I thought the insulation of the motor wire is made of Teflon but actually not. The board output wire on the other hand is apparently made of silicone which withstand the heat quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, zlymex said: I've just found out that the motor wire(of GW V3) is meltable by touching the tip of my electric iron(set to 340 degree C) for 30 seconds. I thought the insulation of the motor wire is made of Teflon but actually not. The board output wire on the other hand is apparently made of silicone which withstand the heat quite well. Perfect demonstration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Interesting experiment. 340° is crazy hot! Are you sure it won't melt at lower temp? Also the board wire is thicker. We knew that, but apparently they realized the motor wires are dangerously thin. Or maybe it is just easier to solder bigger wires to the board? New wheels have 14AWG for motor cables too. Better, but still not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Also, this thread deals with the same "melting cables on high currents (from inclines)" issue, but is newer and has more current information and opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 hours ago, zlymex said: I've just found out that the motor wire(of GW V3) is meltable by touching the tip of my electric iron(set to 340 degree C) for 30 seconds. I thought the insulation of the motor wire is made of Teflon but actually not. The board output wire on the other hand is apparently made of silicone which withstand the heat quite well. Do you know if the new motors with the thicker wires use the silicone insulation? I think people bake chicken at 375° F or 190° C. 644° F is 340° C. I wonder if I coiled the motor wires around a small metal housing whether I could cook some chicken while riding up a steep hill? That would be cool to have a nice snack if I make it up to the top. Or at least for the long walk home... Maybe that Marty Backe Gotway GrilleTM idea was not so far fetched! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 2017/6/23 at 8:48 AM, meepmeepmayer said: Interesting experiment. 340° is crazy hot! Are you sure it won't melt at lower temp? Also the board wire is thicker. We knew that, but apparently they realized the motor wires are dangerously thin. Or maybe it is just easier to solder bigger wires to the board? New wheels have 14AWG for motor cables too. Better, but still not enough. 330 degree C is my favorite temp for soldering because it solds fast. The motor wire actually survived the first 10 seconds or so at 340C. The motor wire is not that thin as we thought, only the insulation layer is thin. Edit 29th June: I've just seen the outer tube of the motor cable(that the connector melt) saying it is 3*2.0mm^2, which is nearly as thick as 14AWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Do you know if the new motors with the thicker wires use the silicone insulation? I think people bake chicken at 375° F or 190° C. 644° F is 340° C. I wonder if I coiled the motor wires around a small metal housing whether I could cook some chicken while riding up a steep hill? That would h be cool to have a nice snack if I make it up to the top. Or at least for the long walk home... I have no idea about the wires of the new motor. I've just tested another motor wire and the result is about the same. This is a very old bicycle generator. I'm in doubt that the new wires using silicone insulation because is very soft. Teflon is more heat resistance and all my Teflon wires(except fake ones) pass this 340 degree C test. By the way, the photo looks very delicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 hours ago, zlymex said: I have no idea about the wires of the new motor. I've just tested another motor wire and the result is about the same. This is a very old bicycle generator. I'm in doubt that the new wires using silicone insulation because is very soft. Teflon is more heat resistance and all my Teflon wires(except fake ones) pass this 340 degree C test. By the way, the photo looks very delicious If you wrap raw chicken breast, the will keep the cable from melting longer until the meat evaporates enough moisture out. I bet it would take two hours at full power before the cable melts. Then at the top of the hill you can have a chicken dinner. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 hours ago, zlymex said: Remind me to never let you and your soldering iron into my house near my electronics items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper0511 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Can I check if anyone knows whether a 60/40 tin and lead solder will be ok with the ACM 60V temps going through the motor cable? I recent had a cable and connector cover melt situation whilst riding uphill in hot weather. I decided to cut motor cables to main board and use larger bullet connectors (4mm) and better covering. I bought good qty solder but not high temp solder .... should I have used special solder ?? I think the solder I bought 60/40 tin/lead melts around c185 degrees C. I have added shrink shielding over the connectors and wire and i've included a pic of the final 3rd connector i finished with the shrink plastic over each plug before I finished by covered the whole connection like the other two with a single shrink plastic tube. Does anyone have a view on the solder to be used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 My understanding is that you should be ok. In my case, when I helped a friend redo his connectors, we used 95/5 Tin/Antimony solder which has a melting point of 450-464 F or 232-240 C. Remember to only us Rosin Core and NOT Acid Core as Acid will damage your wires. This solder takes a good Soldering Iron to heat up and is harder to work with than the 60/40, but we figured the extra high melting point might help in this situation. This blend is recommended for jobs where frequent and extreme temperature changes and vibrations occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper0511 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, SuperSport said: My understanding is that you should be ok. In my case, when I helped a friend redo his connectors, we used 95/5 Tin/Antimony solder which has a melting point of 450-464 F or 232-240 C. Remember to only us Rosin Core and NOT Acid Core as Acid will damage your wires. This solder takes a good Soldering Iron to heat up and is harder to work with than the 60/40, but we figured the extra high melting point might help in this situation. This blend is recommended for jobs where frequent and extreme temperature changes and vibrations occur. Great - thanks for letting me know and for the pic - i look to use this for any future work I do. I think I may leave mine as is and see how I get on as really don't want to pull it all apart again. I think 180C should be fine it's just that it's all or nothing when these EUC's fail ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, SuperSport said: In my case, when I helped a friend redo his connectors, we used 95/5 Tin/Antimony solder which has a melting point of 450-464 F or 232-240C I was not aware on this type of solder. Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 28 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: I was not aware on this type of solder. Thanks for the info! If used directly on Chips and Circuit boards, be very careful as the higher temp can damage components. Soldering Wires, it's fine. It'll work on a board, but you have to be very careful, And Quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, SuperSport said: If used directly on Chips and Circuit boards, be very careful as the higher temp can damage components. Soldering Wires, it's fine. It'll work on a board, but you have to be very careful, And Quick! This type of solder would have been perfect on the ACM bullet connectors I replaced. The job is complete but I am going to file the info away. Hopefully I will soon find out the actual temperature of the connectors when riding in simulated strenuous conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 19 hours ago, Thumper0511 said: Can I check if anyone knows whether a 60/40 tin and lead solder will be ok with the ACM 60V temps going through the motor cable? I recent had a cable and connector cover melt situation whilst riding uphill in hot weather. I decided to cut motor cables to main board and use larger bullet connectors (4mm) and better covering. I bought good qty solder but not high temp solder .... should I have used special solder ?? I think the solder I bought 60/40 tin/lead melts around c185 degrees C. I have added shrink shielding over the connectors and wire and i've included a pic of the final 3rd connector i finished with the shrink plastic over each plug before I finished by covered the whole connection like the other two with a single shrink plastic tube. Does anyone have a view on the solder to be used? No it's not good enough. You need high temp solder. Silver solder for sure will have higher melting point. Use high temp solder. Silver solder meaning tin silver is almost 300c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 @zlymex have you done any experiments with your soldering iron to see at what temperature that Gotway solder melts at? Like if you set your iron low at 100C, see if the solder melts, turn up the heat 10C, check again, etc? I just want to disprove a theory that Gotway may have accidentally sourced an inferior grade solder that melts at too low of a temperature which caused wires to disconnect from connectors making them switch to crimped and soldered ones. Would you be able to check that for me if you have a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.