SuperSport Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Isn't that it marked in red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: They're taking this issue seriously: the two countermeasures that are already in place now are, 1) additional shielding over the motor to prevent chaffing & premature wear & 2) Stronger contacts in the connector. 3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: Yes my ACM 1600 connectors and shielding look (or looked) just that. It appears GW may have sent you a highly scrutinized photo depicting zero signs of any strands of exposed wire. Unfortunately my ACM had exposed strands that were covered up by the new shielding. 3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: Still trying to convince my contact that a complementary, & also superior solution, is the use of 12awg all the down... That would be a huge feather in your cap! I think it may be difficult to navigate 12 awg wires down the narrow diameter shaft. I am going to try to gently persuade (3) 14awg silicone wires through the shaft this weekend! If there appears to be additional room for 12 awg without compromising the wire I will go that route in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 24 minutes ago, SuperSport said: Isn't that it marked in red? My bad! It should have stated 'bottom bank'! You guys are good! Correction: The top Mosfets have a protective film underneath the mounting plate but they do not have any plastic insulating ferrules inserted into the mounting holes to insulate the screws. The bottom Mosfets do not have an insulator film but they do contain plastic ferrules for the mounting screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 11 hours ago, Rehab1 said: My bad! It should have stated 'bottom bank'! You guys are good! Correction: The top Mosfets have a protective film underneath the mounting plate but they do not have any plastic insulating ferrules inserted into the mounting holes to insulate the screws. The bottom Mosfets do not have an insulator film but they do contain plastic ferrules for the mounting screws. On your foto the bottom bank of mosfets has the same grey insulation film as this top bank?! The different parts of the heatshield are and should not be insulated - just some small amount of heat paste has a much lower thermal resistance! As already @esajstated the 6 low side mosfets have to be insulated from the heat shield - i assume you tried your wheel and it works fine? could it be that they use isolated washers and by good luck the screws did not touch the mosfets? one could decrease the thermal resitance for the high side mosfets by removing the grey insulation film and just using heat paste (if this are the mosfets which where not insulated and there is nothing else connected to the heatsink) - but before thinking about this i would triple check this. Also insulating all the mosfets should be the best solution - just in case one cable melts to it... if they did not use the heatshild as connection on purpose... so be very sure to put the plastic insulation ferrules on the same mosfets again and get new ones if they already show some wear. Non insulated low side mosfets will result in an immedeate bridge shoot through and smoking mosfets! so checking the insulation with an ohmmeter after reassembly could be a good idea too - or putting some halogen bulbs as current limiter into the supply line to test if everything works out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Small update: Ian gave me a short reply (not many details, but regarding the magnet, he hasn't seen one come off before but it's plausible if not enough glue was used or it just melts really easily since the magnet will always try to get to the motor metal) and he seems to be in contact with GW. They wanted a photo showing the wheel with the motor code. I can only guess what they want with that, but something is happening -- Also, general ideas on weaknesses and how to improve the GW wheel design are welcome here (as it pertains to the topic). For the specifics and implementation, here's @Rehab1's impressive rebuild thread of his ACM. You can get him to do pretty much any mod if you convince him it might be a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 50 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: You can get him to do pretty much any mod if you convince him it might be a good idea Uh Oh! Thank god my wife does not follow this forum! I would be in big trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: Small update: Ian gave me a short reply (not many details, but regarding the magnet, he hasn't seen one come off before but it's plausible if not enough glue was used or it just melts really easily since the magnet will always try to get to the motor metal) and he seems to be in contact with GW. They wanted a photo showing the wheel with the motor code. I can only guess what they want with that, but something is happening I haven't been following well, so didn't see anything about a magnet coming loose. On my Sondors Electric Bike, we have this issue. A few of our forum members have had a magnet or two come loose inside. When torn down, it's apparent the magnets do not have enough glue, and it's poor quality glue. I will assume this is to save money. The fix is to pull all the magnets and re-glue with a quality epoxy. Our bikes use the Baffang 350 Watt Hub Motor. It's a solid motor aside from the magnet glue issue. Some members are pumping 900 watts through them for thousands of miles. But that's normally when the magnets fail. Once re-glued, it continues to keep running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenOdd Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just ordered a ACM 1300 from Ian last week...seeing this thread makes me very nervous. It seems like the more expensive these wheels get, the more you have to worry about it having issues and breaking. This ACM will be my 4th wheel (Previously had Airwheel x3, x8, and currently have an IPS191 Xima Lhotz), and I never had a single mechanical issue with any of my wheels and I'm a pretty heavy rider at 230lbs. I even submerged the x8 completely in water (by accident of course) but cleaned and dried it and rode it reliably for another few hundred miles before buying the IPS. I will keep my fingers crossed that the ACM holds up. I plan on inspecting it when I receive it and checking the connectors as well as applying silicone to the connectors like @Marty Backe has done in his videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 15 hours ago, SuperSport said: I haven't been following well, so didn't see anything about a magnet coming loose. The magnet in question here is one of the pedal retention magnets, not a motor magnet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: The magnet in question here is one of the pedal retention magnets, not a motor magnet! Ah, gotcha! Yeah, the cheap hot glue epidemic. I glue mine as soon as I open the wheels. Don't want those falling onto the Circuit Board. But, while inside the motor, it would be prudent to check the Motor Magnets too. We've run into the issue on our E-Bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tishawn Fahie Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 19 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Uh Oh! Thank god my wife does not follow this forum! I would be in big trouble! looks like me overtime i purchase a new wheel...lmaoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 5 hours ago, EvenOdd said: Just ordered a ACM 1300 from Ian last week...seeing this thread makes me very nervous. It seems like the more expensive these wheels get, the more you have to worry about it having issues and breaking. This ACM will be my 4th wheel (Previously had Airwheel x3, x8, and currently have an IPS191 Xima Lhotz), and I never had a single mechanical issue with any of my wheels and I'm a pretty heavy rider at 230lbs. I even submerged the x8 completely in water (by accident of course) but cleaned and dried it and rode it reliably for another few hundred miles before buying the IPS. I will keep my fingers crossed that the ACM holds up. I plan on inspecting it when I receive it and checking the connectors as well as applying silicone to the connectors like @Marty Backe has done in his videos. Don't be worried too much, the "ACM" (stands for "all cables melted") happened under unusually heavy load (I've had some mountain tours before and everything went perfectly) and it is afaik a specific, singular incident (not sure about the details how often others encountered this, if they did), so it's not like it happens all the time. The real question is why the motor connectors didn't fail before the cable (afaik the old, bad ones should be in there), maybe the cables were pre-damaged, we don't know for sure. What I'm trying to say, as long as you don't go constant steep inclines I don't think you have to worry that much about this specific issue anyways, and we don't even have the full information yet. You just should be generally aware (maybe a little more with your weight) that Gotway wheels (it's not the price, it's the current Gotway electrical design) could cut out under certain stress situations (we don't know the real limits yet) without warning (that's the critical point, just a warning and the wheel not breaking would be perfectly ok), so wear protection and don't push your otherwise very fine wheel (muuuuch better than your previous models!) beyond your good conscience. Just start slow-ish, work your way up carefully, and be mindful of the possibilities. Otherwise, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 On 3/28/2017 at 6:18 PM, meepmeepmayer said: I will keep my fingers crossed that the ACM holds up. I plan on inspecting it when I receive it and checking the connectors as well as applying silicone to the connectors like @Marty Backe has done in his videos. @EvenOdd You'll be just fine! Very simple to access the components @Marty Backe modified! Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 @Rehab1 You quoted the wrong guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenOdd Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 15 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Don't be worried too much, the "ACM" (stands for "all cables melted") happened under unusually heavy load (I've had some mountain tours before and everything went perfectly) and it is afaik a specific, singular incident (not sure about the details how often others encountered this, if they did), so it's not like it happens all the time. The real question is why the motor connectors didn't fail before the cable (afaik the old, bad ones should be in there), maybe the cables were pre-damaged, we don't know for sure. What I'm trying to say, as long as you don't go constant steep inclines I don't think you have to worry that much about this specific issue anyways, and we don't even have the full information yet. You just should be generally aware (maybe a little more with your weight) that Gotway wheels (it's not the price, it's the current Gotway electrical design) could cut out under certain stress situations (we don't know the real limits yet) without warning (that's the critical point, just a warning and the wheel not breaking would be perfectly ok), so wear protection and don't push your otherwise very fine wheel (muuuuch better than your previous models!) beyond your good conscience. Just start slow-ish, work your way up carefully, and be mindful of the possibilities. Otherwise, enjoy! I have never wore safety gear on my other models. I will definitely be ordering some wrist guards and knee pads today. Generally when I take spills, it's because I'm not paying attention. Twice, I have been looking at my phone (I know, this is stupid) and shattered both of them as well as bruised some ribs. Not a good time. I think I have been fortunate, especially seeing some of the gnarly crashed from others. My luck won't last forever though so better to be safe than sorry. I do have one question...Do you run the risk of overheating the wheel going down hills while regenerative braking (I am assuming these things regen down hills as my voltage would usually climb going down hill on my other models)? While I am never going up large constant hills for more than a few minutes, sometime the hills around here are very up and down. Hopefully I don't have to fear overheating if I ride this wheel in similar conditions that I rode my other ones, especially since the old ones probably worked a lot harder to get me up hills since they were less capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, EvenOdd said: I do have one question...Do you run the risk of overheating the wheel going down hills while regenerative braking (I am assuming these things regen down hills as my voltage would usually climb going down hill on my other models)? While I am never going up large constant hills for more than a few minutes, sometime the hills around here are very up and down. These do re-gen going down hills. As such, they can create heat while charging. I think the risk is greatest if the hill is quite long, steep, and you weigh a lot. I've gone down steep 1/2 mile hills no problem on my 820Wh MSuper v3 without issues. I also only weigh 150-160 lbs. Of course, if you do this on a completely full battery, you also run the risk of overcharging your battery and having a cut out due to that, so make sure you have room in the battery before starting on a long hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 6 hours ago, EvenOdd said: I have never wore safety gear on my other models. I will definitely be ordering some wrist guards and knee pads today. Generally when I take spills, it's because I'm not paying attention. Twice, I have been looking at my phone (I know, this is stupid) and shattered both of them as well as bruised some ribs. Not a good time. I think I have been fortunate, especially seeing some of the gnarly crashed from others. My luck won't last forever though so better to be safe than sorry. I do have one question...Do you run the risk of overheating the wheel going down hills while regenerative braking (I am assuming these things regen down hills as my voltage would usually climb going down hill on my other models)? While I am never going up large constant hills for more than a few minutes, sometime the hills around here are very up and down. Hopefully I don't have to fear overheating if I ride this wheel in similar conditions that I rode my other ones, especially since the old ones probably worked a lot harder to get me up hills since they were less capable. As you said, "user error" (or surprise invisible road conditions) will be the reason for nearly all crashes. But EUCs in general can cut out without warning until proper safety designs are common, and maybe on Gotways the danger is a little higher in high stress situations. Realistically, your hands and knees will hit the ground in a crash, so your choice of protection is good. If you go faster for a long time or regularly, maybe a helmet is good too, in order not to invite statistical realities into your life (as you said, your luck may run out some time) -- While I simply don't know, personally I feel going down hills is not a danger for overheating (it does recharge). Even if it overheats, I'd hope there's just a temperature warning, not the wheel breaking, so no problem then, just wait a few moments for the wheel to cool down. Since you have maybe 60% efficiency in getting power back (number pulled out of my ***), you'd only have to worry about going down hills being over 1.5 times steeper than the steepest hill you can go up, otherwise the stress on your electronics is lower anyways. For the same reason, if you can go up a hill, you should be able to go down that hill with no problems. I've done hills with almost constant decline between 5% and 10% with no breaks (aka maybe 25 minutes or longer) with my ACM1300Wh and everything went well. And given how much better the ACM is than your other wheels, I'd say you really should not worry about anything that was doable with the older wheels. -- Problem is, It's really hard to compare inclines in pictures and videos. I've thought about going back to inclines that worked and the one that didn't and do some photos and measurements somehow. This is my current and only reference. You can see what 15% is, and that 20% is much steeper (in the video it's still really hard to see how steep that actually is, but you can get a glimpse in some scenes) than you'd think (which is why I've revised my estimate). So don't worry about "hills"/inclines too much, what we are talking about is steeper than you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 6 hours ago, EvenOdd said: <snip> I do have one question...Do you run the risk of overheating the wheel going down hills while regenerative braking (I am assuming these things regen down hills as my voltage would usually climb going down hill on my other models)? While I am never going up large constant hills for more than a few minutes, sometime the hills around here are very up and down. <snip> I second what others have said. I've ridden all of my wheels downhill continuously for many miles with no issues regards temperature. You're much more likely to run hot when driving up hills. But remember, ACM's and MSuper's don't overheat unless you are riding them under extreme conditions (very steep hills on a hot day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: All of these tests are getting to me! There is one idiot on this forum that ripped his brand new wheel apart to perform tests! Just hop on, ride and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Rehab1 said: All of these tests are getting to me! There is one idiot on this forum that ripped his brand new wheel apart to perform tests! Just hop on, ride and enjoy! Ferenc and David in the video above are Germans. It's a real steep incline on this old army test facility. You need balls doing this test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 15 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: As you said, "user error" (or surprise invisible road conditions) will be the reason for nearly all crashes. But EUCs in general can cut out without warning until proper safety designs are common, and maybe on Gotways the danger is a little higher in high stress situations. Realistically, your hands and knees will hit the ground in a crash, so your choice of protection is good. If you go faster for a long time or regularly, maybe a helmet is good too, in order not to invite statistical realities into your life (as you said, your luck may run out some time) -- While I simply don't know, personally I feel going down hills is not a danger for overheating (it does recharge). Even if it overheats, I'd hope there's just a temperature warning, not the wheel breaking, so no problem then, just wait a few moments for the wheel to cool down. Since you have maybe 60% efficiency in getting power back (number pulled out of my ***), you'd only have to worry about going down hills being over 1.5 times steeper than the steepest hill you can go up, otherwise the stress on your electronics is lower anyways. For the same reason, if you can go up a hill, you should be able to go down that hill with no problems. I've done hills with almost constant decline between 5% and 10% with no breaks (aka maybe 25 minutes or longer) with my ACM1300Wh and everything went well. And given how much better the ACM is than your other wheels, I'd say you really should not worry about anything that was doable with the older wheels. -- Problem is, It's really hard to compare inclines in pictures and videos. I've thought about going back to inclines that worked and the one that didn't and do some photos and measurements somehow. This is my current and only reference. You can see what 15% is, and that 20% is much steeper (in the video it's still really hard to see how steep that actually is, but you can get a glimpse in some scenes) than you'd think (which is why I've revised my estimate). So don't worry about "hills"/inclines too much, what we are talking about is steeper than you might think. This test was with the geared Rockwheel. Try this long enough steep incline with a today EUC, in the full run (with a European rider) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, OliverH said: This test was with the geared Rockwheel. Try this long enough steep incline with a today EUC, in the full run (with a European rider) ... My buddy Todd and I regularly ride hills like these. On the MSupers, these are MUCH harder to do. My NineBot was a lot easier. Not due to power, but rather weight of the wheel On the MSuper, you have to lean so hard you literally feel like you are going to fall off the front of the pedals. You have to have a LOT of faith. I also have to clamp the wheel tight between my calves, or there's no way it will lean enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenOdd Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Thanks @meepmeepmayer, that video definitely helps. I rarely have to go up anything steeper than 10%, and when I do, it is for a very short time. I feel reassured now that I have made a good decision. Should be receiving my ACM next week...can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, EvenOdd said: Thanks @meepmeepmayer, that video definitely helps. I rarely have to go up anything steeper than 10%, and when I do, it is for a very short time. I feel reassured now that I have made a good decision. Should be receiving my ACM next week...can't wait! I sure hope that you aren't getting an ACM for going up 10% grades; most EUCs will do that with ease. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, abinder3 said: I sure hope that you aren't getting an ACM for going up 10% grades; most EUCs will do that with ease. Allen I'm sure that he's buying the ACM because it's currently the best EUC on the planet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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