Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 @Rehab1, I can't find any reliable source on how social media effects police killings in your links. It feels like sensation press from single cases or from reported death threads. It seems that in reality the number of killed police officers in the US is continuously decreasing, despite the humongous growth of social media (and despite the increasing number of serving officers): http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36826297 The current rate is roughly 6 / 100,000 / year, the murder rate in the US is in comparison is 4 / 100,000 / year. That is, being a police officer is in comparison about as dangerous as being a citizen. Both murder rates are about five to ten times smaller in other developed countries, where I guess social media are well known as well (numbers are not easy to find and I didn't have time to carefully check many of them). Considering these data, the idea that social media is instrumental in killing of police officers is very far fetched. Of course there can be single cases. There can also be single cases where social media prevent killings and they will hardly ever come up in the press. There are all kinds of potential reasons for the decrease of killings of officers and it is certainly non-trivial to make good evidence-based guesses what these are, let alone have conclusive propositions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 @Mono Unfortunately there are divergent views on the subject when researching the news because of politics. CBS News ran this story 6 days ago and they are democratic. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-killed-line-of-duty-increase-2016/ I wish you well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Right, that is the nature of a statistical variable from a comparatively small number of cases, as you can see in the graph of the above link (copied again below). This is not about "divergent views", this is about facts first. The change between two single years cannot tell you much if anything about a trend. The probability of an increase remains about 1/2, irrespectively of where the trend goes. And of course, the big news is always when shit happens, when things do get worse. That leads to the very perturbed perception that things get always worse and you have to dig deeper than that to find out what is actually happening. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36826297 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Mono said: Right, that is the nature of a statistical variable from a comparatively small number of cases, as you can see in the graph of the above link (copied again below). The change between two single years cannot tell you much if anything about the trend. The probability of an increase remains about 1/2, irrespectively of where the trend goes. And of course, the big news is always when shit happens, when things to get worse. That leads to the very perturbed perception that things get always worse and you have to dig deeper than that to find out what is actually happening. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36826297 Unfortunately the BBC statistical graph ends in 2015. Excerpt from the CBS news article: The number of police killed in the line of duty rose sharply in 2016, driven by shootings of police around the country, most notably ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana. From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year. Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities. “We’ve never seen a year in my memory when we’ve had an increase of this magnitude in officer shooting deaths,” said Craig Floyd, president and chief executive of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. “These officers were killed simply because of the uniform they wear and the job they do. This is unacceptable to the humane society that we are.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Unfortunately the BBC statistical graph ends in 2015. Excerpt from the CBS news article: The number of police killed in the line of duty rose sharply in 2016, driven by shootings of police around the country, most notably ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana. From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year. Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities. “We’ve never seen a year in my memory when we’ve had an increase of this magnitude in officer shooting deaths,” said Craig Floyd, president and chief executive of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. “These officers were killed simply because of the uniform they wear and the job they do. This is unacceptable to the humane society that we are.” For whatever reason, the last year has had a noticeably larger amount of news stories about police being shot. Most of them seem to be amushes, with some others being escalations of violence from people resisting arrest. The Dallas ambush, in Euless TX a guy fresh out of jail was said to have broken in to a house and stole some guns, he shot and killed a policeman from New York CIty who thought small city Texas would be safer than New York. Maybe it's the news of the day, and happens the same amount every year but the media is just more focused on it recently. Things in the news seem to go in cycles, earthquakes caused by fracking were hot in the news some months ago, now you hardly hear about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I've experienced bullies in school and have seen how kids grow up without adequate parental guidance and morals. Even good kids can head into the wrong direction if they get mixed up with others who influence them. Add in the random shootings and police versus African American violence, and you can sort of see where the lack of basic respect for our fellow human beings and the law can lead to. I guess I'm past that age where I think it's cool to get the last word over a cop who was using his authority without any real basis in law. I just see it as disrespectful to a person in uniform who has to deal with difficult situations day in and day out. There are always going to be situations where the police will try to influence the public to follow their direction even though technically there is no law against what they are doing. They may be trying to act in the best interests of the public at the time. In the end what we may argue about on the internet here amounts to a nice hill of beans, and I could use some chilli to warm me up. I sort of believe in what goes around comes around so I'm sure that fellow posting the video will find out sometime in the future where his attitude and behavior leads to in the end. Or he may pass his attitudes and beliefs onto his children who may end up getting shot for arguing with the police, or they may not. It's not illegal to own and carry a sharp Swiss army knife around in public, but I would probably listen to the police to put it down if they asked me. Others may not, and they would be in their legal right I guess. I'm no legal beagle, but I've seen countless news reports of what happens to those people. Good or bad, I guess fate has a funny way of working things out. No point in arguing that I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I've experienced bullies in school and have seen how kids grow up without adequate parental guidance and morals. Even good kids can head into the wrong direction if they get mixed up with others who influence them. Add in the random shootings and police versus African American violence, and you can sort of see where the lack of basic respect for our fellow human beings and the law can lead to. I guess I'm past that age where I think it's cool to get the last word over a cop who was using his authority without any real basis in law. I just see it as disrespectful to a person in uniform who has to deal with difficult situations day in and day out. There are always going to be situations where the police will try to influence the public to follow their direction even though technically there is no law against what they are doing. They may be trying to act in the best interests of the public at the time. In the end what we may argue about on the internet here amounts to a nice hill of beans, and I could use some chilli to warm me up. I sort of believe in what goes around comes around so I'm sure that fellow posting the video will find out sometime in the future where his attitude and behavior leads to in the end. Or he may pass his attitudes and beliefs onto his children who may end up getting shot for arguing with the police, or they may not. It's not illegal to own and carry a sharp Swiss army knife around in public, but I would probably listen to the police to put it down if they asked me. Others may not, and they would be in their legal right I guess. I'm no legal beagle, but I've seen countless news reports of what happens to those people. Good or bad, I guess fate has a funny way of working things out. No point in arguing that I think. Well stated Hunka! Where were you earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I've experienced bullies in school and have seen how kids grow up without adequate parental guidance and morals. Even good kids can head into the wrong direction if they get mixed up with others who influence them. Add in the random shootings and police versus African American violence, and you can sort of see where the lack of basic respect for our fellow human beings and the law can lead to. I guess I'm past that age where I think it's cool to get the last word over a cop who was using his authority without any real basis in law. I just see it as disrespectful to a person in uniform who has to deal with difficult situations day in and day out. There are always going to be situations where the police will try to influence the public to follow their direction even though technically there is no law against what they are doing. They may be trying to act in the best interests of the public at the time. In the end what we may argue about on the internet here amounts to a nice hill of beans, and I could use some chilli to warm me up. I sort of believe in what goes around comes around so I'm sure that fellow posting the video will find out sometime in the future where his attitude and behavior leads to in the end. Or he may pass his attitudes and beliefs onto his children who may end up getting shot for arguing with the police, or they may not. It's not illegal to own and carry a sharp Swiss army knife around in public, but I would probably listen to the police to put it down if they asked me. Others may not, and they would be in their legal right I guess. I'm no legal beagle, but I've seen countless news reports of what happens to those people. Good or bad, I guess fate has a funny way of working things out. No point in arguing that I think. This is the grave of Mike O’Day, who died maintaining his right of way. His right was clear, his will was strong, but he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong. -Old English Epitaph Put more simply, don't be Dead Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David S Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 21 hours ago, Rehab1 said: If anyone supports this video they should read the comments that followed! Sorry for the graphic language below but it depicts the true nature of the growing, ugly mentality directed towards police daily! I bet that cop went home, kicked his dog and beat his wife hahah ;D fuck u cop, i know ur this cop bitch, all u could fuck is ur dog in the ass more then likely snorted a whole kilo of cocaine that he stole from the evidence locker and OD the next morning. Juan Ramirez Wrong! Just went and found some innocent black guys and harassed and beat and choked! Maybe even taxed and shot. You know the same ole same ole. the pig is not an idiot he knew he was wrong,just a bully indoctrinating fear in are children so they have good slaves for the future did u get your law degree through fb ? lol aha dumbass cop SHALL I CONTINUE? look up any popular youtube video and you will find lots of absurd comments. I don't know how this is suppose to support your arguement. Again i will reinterate this guy only had "attitude" after he won the arguement, also after the cop mocked and berated him. I don't believe people should live in fear of police so can't agree with any arguements of "dont argue with the police, they have guns". If a police is trying to enforce non existent laws I am all for citizens respectfully telling them that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 2 hours ago, David S said: look up any popular youtube video and you will find lots of absurd comments. I don't know how this is suppose to support your arguement. Again i will reinterate this guy only had "attitude" after he won the arguement, also after the cop mocked and berated him. I don't believe people should live in fear of police so can't agree with any arguements of "dont argue with the police, they have guns". If a police is trying to enforce non existent laws I am all for citizens respectfully telling them that. Hey David: That is what is nice about this forum! We can have disagreements and civil discussions without berating each other. I just think the guy is a jerk. If he had ended the discussion with a simple "thanks for listening officer" I would be fine. If one of my employees ended a conversation how he did the person would be fired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 57 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: If one of my employees ended a conversation how he did the person would be fired! Right. Fortunately, police officers don't have the right to fire citizens...wait...no...you don't want to suggest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 22 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Well stated Hunka! Where were you earlier? I was lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce. Actually I've been a bit lazy and haven't been reading as much as last year. It's a new year's resolution to realize that arguing on the internet isn't very rewarding or productive. There's always going to be two or more very divergent opinions on every subject, and that's just how the world works. Whether people I don't know and have never met agree with me or not isn't very important in my little reality. It might be interesting to partake in every now and then, but it really doesn't matter that much whether a stranger half way around the world agrees with me or not, does it? Everyone's free to do what they want and think a certain way, and I respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roll Model Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 On 1/4/2017 at 6:35 AM, David S said: This type of reasoning is what leads to tyranny. If people didn't insist upon being treated fairly and not having unjust laws imposed upon them america would have never been founded. Unjust laws???? In this case you mean 'imaginary laws', no? The cop seemed to want to invent laws to enforce - He acted with utter disregard for the law - He in fact acted LAWLESSLY under the color of authority...What could be worse? Nothing is worse. I didn't listen to the vid, but have seen plenty like it - Being cocky and stupid is one way to ask for more trouble from out of control cops. The comments about 'Cops have a tough and dangerous job...' are a sad joke and obviously have nothing to do with harassing kids on bikes, lol - Some people are better at being boot licking sheep and that's funny and scary at the same time. At the same time I am the official old man/grouch of my street and would hate to have a bunch of 'kids' hanging out making noise and taking over any part of my little world with their lust for risk and noise. Too often (didn't see the vid) people want to abuse others with the noise, litter and risk they consider fun. I simply don't want to be disturbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roll Model Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 On 1/4/2017 at 4:09 PM, steve454 said: Things in the news seem to go in cycles, earthquakes caused by fracking were hot in the news some months ago, now you hardly hear about them. Wow - that's so true!! Have you noticed a huge uptick in stories about snow and cold weather in the news lately!?? Five or six months ago it was all about heat waves... OMG man, I think you've discovered something...A new type of insanity perhaps! The notion that cops are justified to act lawlessly because of some imaginary risk to them is counter the rule of law itself. The cops take an oath, the cops have a job description with "Duties" - They have a much higher standard to uphold than any citizen and shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt in any case. If they don't comport themselves with in the legal framework provided (as they did not in this case) they should face stiff and severe professional and legal sanctions. In this case the cops behavior created an unnecessary risk to himself, those kids and any bystanders AND he wasted our hard earned taxes with his little joy ride into totalitarianism... What keeps him legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Ok.... to actually get back to the subject in the OP and the questioned posed..... simply answer is No because there are very few laws in the world that actually PERMIT EUCs for riding. But that's why once I have the law changed that specifically permits EUCs, then I can verbally fight back at any cop that stops me with an actually ordinance or bill number that they can refer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 10 hours ago, Roll Model said: At the same time I am the official old man/grouch of my street and would hate to have a bunch of 'kids' hanging out making noise and taking over any part of my little world with their lust for risk and noise. Too often (didn't see the vid) people want to abuse others with the noise, litter and risk they consider fun. I simply don't want to be disturbed. I've always suspected I have a twin somewhere. Maybe it's you. I TOO am the old man grouch... Etc. there are far too many people in this world who think that they have the right to do whatever they want whenever they want. Our cities are very crowded, and every crotch rocket, hot hatch, V twin, super car, moped, scooter that roars by with obviously illegal and VERY LOUD exhausts, causes distress, in those trying to live a quiet life. Add all the horrendously loud conversations, weed walkers, leaf blowers, barking dogs, high power stereos blaring from open windows or through joining walls, you name it and people are at breaking point. How does this relate to the video. These kids ( there is a small group) seem to be riding BMX style bikes. They are probably riding round and round the same area, pulling tricks, jumping up and down low walls, etc, and as they go round and round they are probably carving up pedestrians. A lot of speculation, I know, but we all know the type. Last month in Barcelona, I saw a pack of skateboarders ( they were English) doing tricks all up and down the waterfront. The next day I saw them again, except this time I was on my wheel. I was approaching them from behind at about 15kph, ready to pass in a nice wide space about 30 feet wide, but there were walkers too. Just then, one of them kicks off rapidly, followed by the others, diagonally across the path, and across my path, blocking the clear route around them, I had picked out.. I was 5 feet behind him and closing. I yelled " watch out" he turned and said, " I don't have eyes in the back of my head you know" "That's why you need to look" I said, a bit annoyed. He didn't see the logic in that. Im a firm believer that an individual's rights END where another individuals right BEGIN. But I see less and less of that every day, and with budget cuts, good luck getting the police to do anything, except what their stats driven policing dictates. so far on my 3 month trip across Europe my one abiding memory, is not the blue of the ocean, or the large sweeps of golden sand, or the majestic gorges and green valleys, or the steel blue lakes, or the boats sitting quietly in marina, or the sunsets, or sun rises, or even the dozens of nice trips I have taken on my wheel, NO, my one abiding memory is all the fecking barking dogs, and the horribly loud scooters, and the fishermen loudly discussing their plans at 05:30 right outside my bedroom window. But mostly the dogs. Everywhere I go, barking dogs, morning noon and night. Why do dog owners think it's ok to fill a neighbourhood with noise ( especially when they leave their dogs alone for hours at a time) ? Not animal lovers I say. Animal torturers. For what is a dog that barks all day long? It's a dog that's lonely and afraid, and fears being abandoned. Animal torturers, all of them. And it's the rest of us who have to listen to their victims cries of pain and anguish. EDIT: and don't even get me started on the dog shit, everywhere, and the Un-leashed dogs that try to sneak up and attack you from behind (if you're wheeling). Im up to here (raises hand above head, figuratively) with other people's noise, and mess. I try to make as little noise and mess as possible, because it's the right thing to do, the considerate thing to do, but I seem to be in the minority. So this cop was trying to bring a little peace to that scenic area, for EVERYONE to enjoy peacefully. Good for him. The fact that he supposedly didn't know the particular ordinance relating to that area, shame on him. But we are assuming that the youth, was quoting the correct code correctly. American cops do come across heavy handed frequently. British cops don't come across nearly as heavy handedly and take a lot and I mean A LOT of verbal abuse right up in their faces, and physical abuse too, because of it. I favour a middle approach, but I'm not a cop. phew! that was a rant, eh? oh, and those skateboarders, the next thing he said was "why don't you get of and push". "nah!" I said "pushing is for wankers" and sped off up a side path" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noisycarlos Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Well, that escalated quickly. I go offline for a couple of days and come back to a looong thread. Sorry, when I posted the video I didn't realize how charged that subject was. It makes complete sense in hindsight, but personally I've always been nice to the cops, and the cops have always been nice to me. It was interesting to read all the points of view though. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Ah, the fine sound of ego's clashing like the skulls of fighting wildebeasts. When things go sideways, I mean really badly, you'll probably be wondering your whole life what really happened that day, at which point did it start spiralling out of control ...... There quite some egotistical maniacs and sociopath around, or just completely stressed up people who completely lose for one or the other reason, so it doesn't even have to be personal. Starting a confrontation (or heating one up someone tries to start up with you) is pointless if you are not prepared to end up defending your life and potentially die in the process. You will most surely not die from saying "yes Sir", "thank you for your advice", etc to any idiot or *hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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