noisycarlos Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (Edit) PS: I'm just sharing this, not endorsing. You can be firm and not rude! We don't wanna give a bad name to EUCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 This is how you shut down a cop I think the guy in this video was too cocky, arrogant, confrontational. I like the idea of knowing the section number of the law and being able to refer the cop to it, but do it respectfully. If you can't convince the cop on the spot, do what he asks and say, "OK, I will leave, but when you get back to the station, please look up this law number I gave you and you will find out we are allowed to ride here." Sooner or later you'll encounter that same cop again, and it will be much better if you have a friendly relationship. Antagonizing the cops in your area will just make your situation harder in the end, even when you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I agree with max. When the cop said "have a nice day" he was conceding his loss and bowing out. At that point the bike rider should have thanked him and walked away. If I was that cop, at that point I would have looked for some other infraction, such as his offensive language. Winning is one thing, belittling the loser is wrong, ESPECIALLY if he's carrying a gun! but, to answer @noisycarlos s question, yes, knowing the law and quoting it would be great if the law was on your side. Unfortunately, in a lot of countries, it is not. I can't tell what your laws are because you have no location info. In your profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noisycarlos Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 I agree 100% with both of you, he was way too cocky. I guess I should've put a disclaimer that in not endorsing this, lol. I stumbled upon the video and thought I'd share. But I'm always nice. I don't wanna give bad fame to the EUCs. Actually, cops are always nice to me too, if anything they're more curious than anything else. I live in California, so I'm lucky it's legal :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David S Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I disagree completely that he was too cocky. If anyone was cocky it was the cop with his "where did you get your law degree? on facebook". He used cop tactics which frighten people to do what they say without asking questions, that's not the role cops are suppose to serve.The cop was trying to enforce something that wasn't a law and the guy responded to him with facts, respectfully. Sure, at the end he took a liltle victory jab at him but seems deserved to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Kudos to the cob that he did back out! At one point he was starting to take his stick out, wasn't he? Strange that the cited law seemed to change from 16.16. to 15.15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 12 hours ago, David S said: He used cop tactics which frighten people to do what they say without asking questions, They have to use cop tactics, it's a dangerous job. But it's a fine line sometimes, and the stress gets too strong. That's why you should treat the police like a loaded gun, carefully, because they carry a loaded gun. In general, I try to avoid them even though I am a law abiding citizen. I like them to focus on the bad guys and not take anything out on my weak self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 hours ago, steve454 said: They have to use cop tactics What cop tactics is widely differs in different parts of this world. I strongly doubt that acting consistently aggressive is a useful measure to save cops lives, even in the US. Applying consistently de-escalation techniques is what is more likely save cops and other lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'd hate to say it, but that guy posting the video was just a jerk. The officer may have been in the wrong in the eyes of the law, but there's no need to disrespect the police. There's certainly good and bad cops, and they have a difficult job to do. Making it harder for them doesn't help anyone. Imagine dealing with punks all day who think they can get away with anything and who dish out abuse to everyone and anyone. It's not a job I'd want. I'd be going for my gun way too often. Don't get me started on capital punishment! It could have gone an entirely different way. I'm not saying we should all roll over and show our soft white underbellies, mind you, but there are better ways to do it I think. A lot of people don't respect authority or anyone else for that matter due to an improper upbringing so that has led to a huge amount of societal issues. Whatever happened to courtesy and being a gentleman? I don't think we should go back to the Victorian ages, but it just seems to me that there's this downward trend where being bad is being popularized as a good thing. I guess it's all part of rebelling against society, but I think there's better ways to being cool. Ah well, that's my random rant for today. I just had to get it out of my system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Let me start by saying that I totally respect police and the job that they have to do. They have a hard time trying to maintain the safety of our communities in a thankless job where smartarse members of the public are trying to lie to them or get one over them. A job where they are the first port of call for the same smartarses when they are in need. It's a thankless job where they witness some horrific things. There are times where they do need to be assertive. Lets face it. There are thousands of laws in our countries and each officer cant be expected to know them all by heart. This particular officer was trying to keep pedestrians safe. However he could have been a bit more polite and said "I was trying to keep the pedestrians here safe and was under the understanding that you weren't allowed to ride here. If you are certain that law is applicable in this circumstance, I'll check with my comms to be certain of which law applies. If you are correct, I'll leave you to it. If not I'll have to ask you to stop riding. Does that sound fair?". I have a lot more respect for someone that says " That is a good point. I may be wrong. Lets find out" than someone who flaunts their opinion about without checking. Seems to me both parties came across a little strong in this circumstance. This could have been resolved with a lot less verbal aggression on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David S Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I'd hate to say it, but that guy posting the video was just a jerk. The officer may have been in the wrong in the eyes of the law, but there's no need to disrespect the police. There's certainly good and bad cops, and they have a difficult job to do. Making it hard doesn't help anyone. Imagine dealing with punks all day who think they can get away with anything and who dish out abuse to everyone and anyone. It's not a job I'd want. I'd be going for my gun way too often. Don't get me started on capital punishment! It could have gone an entirely different way. I'm not saying we should all roll over and show our soft white underbellies, mind you, but there are better ways to do it I think. A lot of people don't respect authority or anyone else for that matter due to an improper upbringing so that has led to a huge amount of societal issues. Whatever happened to courtesy and being a gentleman? I don't think we should go back to the Victorian ages, but it just seems to me that there's this downward trend where being bad is being popularized as a good thing. I guess it's all part of rebelling against society, but I think there's better ways to being cool. Ah well, that's my random rant for today. I just had to get it out of my system. You are talking about no reason to disrespect the police, the police was disrespecting a law abiding citizen. The citizen responded respectfully asking which law he was violating and stating the law as he knew it, I don't know how he could be more respectful than that. The only slight disrespect was at the end after the cop was leaving, and in my eyes it didn't even equal the original disrespect from the cop. You also talk about being bad being popularized as being good, How exactly was this guy being bad? If a cop tells you you can't walk on a sidewalk and you tell him you are legally allowed to walk on a sidewalk is that being bad? On a final note if the cop was respectful the whole time I believe this guy would not have taken the verbal jab at him in the end either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 This makes video is extremely disturbing to me! It reminds me of an antagonizing Black Live's Matter altercation with police that escalated from a conscientious objection to full blown disrespectful rhetoric! He should have asked the officer politely to please help him understand the law and then arranged a meeting at the department that would open up a dialogue to further discuss the issue. This would hopefully lead to greater respect for each other. 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by Dale Carnegie comes to mind. We all need to build cordial relationships with law enforcement that will benefit us all in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Rehab1 said: He should have asked the officer politely to please help him understand the law Why should he if he knew the law? Why shouldn't the officer have asked as (i) it was him who didn't know the law and (ii) he is the professional in this conversation, so he should be hold to higher standards to get it right? It might be useful to remember that the cop is a servant paid by the citizen. 4 hours ago, Rehab1 said: We all need to build cordial relationships with law enforcement that will benefit us all in the future! That is because you are afraid that one day the cops will abuse their power if you haven't build a relationship with them and you have tacitly accepted this situation. I agree, it is smart to be polite and submissive with cops to possibly avoid any shit to happen. But it cannot be considered a requirement or necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'd say the lesson here is 'Never let personal pride, or your knowledge of the law, no matter how correct it may be, lead you to unnecessarily escalate or prolong any encounter with police. It doesn't matter if they are wrong - just do what they tell you, and you'll be out of there in 2 minutes flat, and the officer won't hate you for next time'. Both of those situations get a lot worse if you find any reason to argue with them, and they are holding all the cards, so it's pointless to try, even if you are right. By all means make your arguments, but if they are falling on deaf ears, then cut your losses, agree with the guy, apologise (you don't have to mean it) and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cerbera said: I'd say the lesson here is 'Never let personal pride, or your knowledge of the law, no matter how correct it may be, lead you to unnecessarily escalate or prolong any encounter with police. It doesn't matter if they are wrong - just do what they tell you, and you'll be out of there in 2 minutes flat I am completely lost how you get this lesson from the OP vid. The lesson here is to insist on your rights and don't let law enforcement abuse their power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David S Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, Cerbera said: I'd say the lesson here is 'Never let personal pride, or your knowledge of the law, no matter how correct it may be, lead you to unnecessarily escalate or prolong any encounter with police. It doesn't matter if they are wrong - just do what they tell you, and you'll be out of there in 2 minutes flat, and the officer won't hate you for next time'. Both of those situations get a lot worse if you find any reason to argue with them, and they are holding all the cards, so it's pointless to try, even if you are right. By all means make your arguments, but if they are falling on deaf ears, then cut your losses, agree with the guy, apologise (you don't have to mean it) and move on. This type of reasoning is what leads to tyranny. If people didn't insist upon being treated fairly and not having unjust laws imposed upon them america would have never been founded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Mono said: Why should he if he knew the law? Why shouldn't the officer have asked as (i) it was him who didn't know the law and (ii) he is the professional in this conversation, so he should be hold to higher standards to get it right? It might be useful to remember that the cop is a servant paid by the citizen. I am not saying we should just bend over and take it but some civility should be addressed, not this pounding of the chest attitude that he won the conversation and then boasted about it on video with a huge font billboard title! To make my point there was a conversation on this subject awhile back that@Marty Backe addressed.His wise advice was to carry a document stating the specific law where a diplomatic discussion can then ensue. 1 hour ago, Mono said: That is because you are afraid that one day the cops will abuse their power if you haven't build a relationship with them and you have tacitly accepted this situation. I agree, it is smart to be polite and submissive with cops to possibly avoid any shit to happen. But it cannot be considered a requirement or necessity. Afraid! Totally wrong! I just respect the institution! The police were there for me 100%, first when my son was killed and again when my secretary robbed my office of $70K. I am not saying there has never been a time where I would have loved to Jap slap an officer but 99.99% of the time they are polite and helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 33 minutes ago, Mono said: I am completely lost how you get this lesson from the OP vid. The lesson here is to insist on your rights and don't let law enforcement abuse their power. It just didn't feel like a win for anyone to me. There was a way to do that which would have made that policeman leave the conversation with a renewed respect for cyclists. And this wasn't it - that's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If anyone supports this video they should read the comments that followed! Sorry for the graphic language below but it depicts the true nature of the growing, ugly mentality directed towards police daily! I bet that cop went home, kicked his dog and beat his wife hahah ;D fuck u cop, i know ur this cop bitch, all u could fuck is ur dog in the ass more then likely snorted a whole kilo of cocaine that he stole from the evidence locker and OD the next morning. Juan Ramirez Wrong! Just went and found some innocent black guys and harassed and beat and choked! Maybe even taxed and shot. You know the same ole same ole. the pig is not an idiot he knew he was wrong,just a bully indoctrinating fear in are children so they have good slaves for the future did u get your law degree through fb ? lol aha dumbass cop SHALL I CONTINUE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Cerbera said: It just didn't feel like a win for anyone to me. There was a way to do that which would have made that policeman leave the conversation with a renewed respect for cyclists. And this wasn't it - that's all I'm saying. I agree that we have not seen the best possible of all outcomes. Yet I have seen several wins compared to the expected outcome. A citizen courageously stood up for their right instead of cowardly submit to an order and they succeeded (2 wins). An official courageously walked away instead of escalating the situation or cowardly abusing their power (1.5 wins). So I see quite some wins, even if it was not the best of all outcomes. EDIT: under rewatching, I find the cob to behave pretty reasonable all along, so another win for the cobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Rehab1 said: If anyone supports this video they should read the comments that followed! For what reason? What am I supposed to learn? I know that there are large communities for which cops are the worst enemies. I also know that these communities are wrong. I also know that their perception is yet quite understandable to me (I am happy to explain if they seem incomprehensible to you). Now, going for some bikers and bullying them away from public ground doesn't look like a resolution to this problem, or does it? It seems rather to fuel the flames. Cops should be happy and supportive when seeing the kids playing with their bikes instead of playing with guns or breaking into our homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 52 minutes ago, Mono said: For what reason? What am I supposed to learn? I know that there are large communities for which cops are the worst enemies. I also know that they are wrong. I also know that their perception is yet quite understandable. Now, going for some bikers and bullying them away from public ground doesn't look like a resolution this problem, or does it? It seems rather to fuel the flames. Cops should be happy and supportive when seeing the kids playing with their bikes instead of playing with guns or breaking into your home. I mean no disrespect as I sense your passion for this subject! In my country police are dying almost daily from citizen shootings! This unfortunate trend has been directly linked to the bombardment of negative social media postings that are strictly designed to provoke resentment and anger towards uniformed officers! If the video were titled say: "How to Respectfully Speak To An Officer While Standing Up For Your Rights" this guy would have received minimal response thus fracturing his amplified ego! Instead the guy elected to use a highly charged marquee that reeked with immense arrogance and disrespect towards the police! His video title was calculating and purely designed to increase ratings and inflame the audience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: This unfortunate trend has been directly linked to the bombardment of negative social media postings that are strictly designed to provoke resentment and anger towards uniformed officers! That's interesting. Do you have the source where this link has been suggested? Is citizens shooting police officers a new thing in the US? I was in the belief this was happening already before the term social media was even invented. Can you explain how you draw the connection between this vid and actually shooting a human being? I agree, the title is click baiting, but c'mon. To my understanding, I am not a native speaker, the title is playing with a double entendre and in the end isn't it even exactly right? Meaning, this is how you should shut down a police officer and not with a gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Wow, I'm so glad that the guy in this video wasn't riding an EUC. He was a jerk IMHO. I think the cop only got aggressive because of the attitude of this guy. This is how people (in other situations) end up getting arrested or worse by the police. He should be gifted the book How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie. Everyone should read it at least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Mono said: That's interesting. Do you have the source where this link has been suggested? Is citizens shooting police officers a new thing in the US? I was in the belief this was happening already before the term social media was even invented. https://donofalltrades.com/2016/07/08/social-media-killed-five-cops/ http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/07/11/4-arrested-after-threatening-social-media-kill-detroit-police/86946186/ http://putnam.dailyvoice.com/police-fire/area-man-charged-with-using-social-media-to-promote-killing-cops/671338/ https://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/35092006-Conn-police-worried-by-ambush-assaults-social-media-hostility/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/20/nypd-police-shooting-ismaaiyl-brinsley/20709827/ http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-brooklyn-sources-article-1.2051941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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