Smoother Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 After riding a while yesterday, I put my wheel on charge until light went green ( wanted to stop at 80% but I was out for longer than expected). Took it off charge and put it away until this morning. turn it on, and it won't balance upright. It's balancing, but it rotates the housing slowly to the rear, and once over at about 45* it slowly picks itself up and rotates off to about 45* the other way. No amount of on off selection will cure it. Android app is useless for level calibration so that didn't help. Fired up Apple app and it did do some sort of communication with wheel but problem not fixed. Sometime in this process the wheel started beeping continuously when switched on. Then when trying to switch on, all that would happen was the first two bars of the power gauge would light up (fully charged, remember). If i released the power button at this time it would make a dull electronic noise from inside and switch off. If I continued to press the power button the rest of the power lights would light in sequence until all 10 were lit. At that point, if I released the power button they would stay lit but now I got no balance at all, not even the slow front to back leaning described earlier. Also, I have noticed that in the last few days my beeper has developed a raspy voice, like a speaker sounds when it is blown. I told you that so I could tell you this: today, during all this pfaffing about, the beeper is sounding really sick, and also seems to have a two tone effect. More on this in a moment. So, as I do with broken things, I continued to mess with it and suddenly without any explanation it starts working perfectly. So what does one do after a complex electronic device, who's main function is to keep you from face planting at speed into the concrete in front of a bus, malfunctions and then repairs itself for unknown reasons? Why you go ride it of course ? Relax nothing happened, but I have three observations: i. I heard no warning beeps the entire time, and I've got mine set lower than factory while I'm still learning b. Towards the end of my ride, on the few occasions I managed a successful 180* I felt that the foot rests were leaning forward during the turn, making me thing the power was low or something, but there was always power to pull away 3. Ok, only two observations. iiii. Oh I forgot, after many miles riding, and having observed "b." Above. I was surprised to see the battery level still 10 bars. All this led me to believe something was wrong, and I was going to get an unannounced face plant. So I glided home gently. hooking wheel to app showed 82% power, makes sense, as the "10" digit power display is actually only really a 5 digit display as they light and extinguish exclusively in pairs. 100% / 5 pairs = 20% per pair. So 100% - 82% = only 18% used, so yes, all 10 lights would stay lit until another 2 to 3 % had been used. except... On other days when I've ridden it this much, I'm down to 40% power on the bars, ( anywhere between 40% and 20% in reality). is my power reporting software/hardware corrupt? 5. ( I guess I have another observation) messing with the speed control app settings, in the quiet of the house, I could hear the faintest of beeps coming from the wheel. Way to quiet to be heard outside, even at 0km/h. Is my beeper fried? I like my beeper, keeps me safe,. I don't want a sudden face plant, out of the blue. The machine is 2 weeks old and has about 50km on it. Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKJ Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Take it back to where you bought it for after sale help and maybe warranty action. Please let us all know how it goes. ukj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 Yeah.. That's a bit of a problem. I bought it from electro-sport.de via tinternt when I has on vacation in Provence ( possibly near you!!) I'm still on vacation but now I'm near Barcelona. So "taking" it back is not an option. Mail,it, maybe, but just for a beeper? After seeing what EucExtreme gets up to with his wheels, I think I'd rather try replacing it myself, assuming it's the beeper and not the amplifier that drives it. Decisions decisions. I'll try contacting them tomorrow and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 I was really hoping someone with some technical knowledge could explain what my KS14c was doing when it slowly went from back to front and back again over and over. This behaviour came out of nowhere and was quite disconcerting. Why did it happen? What does it mean? Is there a problem? Will it happen again? Does it mean a major fault is in the pipeline? I have a video, but I've never posted on YouTube. I'm not sure if it was a fault, or a diagnostic check, or some form of level calibration. Its unnerving. Added to my beeper going quiet, its doubly unnerving. Without beeps I don't want to push through to tilt back only to find, it's not there either ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 15 hours ago, Smoother said: ... b. Towards the end of my ride, on the few occasions I managed a successful 180* I felt that the foot rests were leaning forward during the turn, making me thing the power was low or something, but there was always power to pull away .... iiii. Oh I forgot, after many miles riding, and having observed "b." Above. I was surprised to see the battery level still 10 bars. All this led me to believe something was wrong, and I was going to get an unannounced face plant. So I glided home gently. That's perfectly normal, my 9b1 does it too. It's there to assist you so you can do tighter turns. 15 hours ago, Smoother said: Then when trying to switch on, all that would happen was the first two bars of the power gauge would light up (fully charged, remember). If i released the power button at this time it would make a dull electronic noise from inside and switch off. If I continued to press the power button the rest of the power lights would light in sequence until all 10 were lit. The whole thing resemble the fw-update mode... Esp. the powerlights lighting up in sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 11/7/2016 at 10:03 AM, Smoother said: I was really hoping someone with some technical knowledge could explain what my KS14c was doing when it slowly went from back to front and back again over and over. This behaviour came out of nowhere and was quite disconcerting. Why did it happen? What does it mean? Is there a problem? Will it happen again? Does it mean a major fault is in the pipeline? I have a video, but I've never posted on YouTube. I'm not sure if it was a fault, or a diagnostic check, or some form of level calibration. Its unnerving. Added to my beeper going quiet, its doubly unnerving. Without beeps I don't want to push through to tilt back only to find, it's not there either ? My wheel which drives my wife, was a strange incident. One day, after charge the batteries and power on remained tilted himself forward and back continually! https://youtu.be/6qkm5MXgHts But then I finally jumped nonetheless onto wheel during movement and start the drive and It also solved the problem ( I waited as came just about to the upright position and then i went quickly on board ) !? I received a reply to this problem : This is the behavior, when the wheel is charged a little too much. Then the mainboard thinks, the battery is wrong and has exactly the same behavior like in your video. Just don’t charge it that long at it is fine. Now, I do not put too long charge the batteries and more it's not the problem occurred ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Yes @Raptor that's exactly it. Thanks so much for clarifying that. When you said "I got a reply" who replied to your question, was it Kingsong? you're a brave man jumping on that wheel when it was doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Smoother said: Yes @Raptor that's exactly it. Thanks so much for clarifying that. When you said "I got a reply" who replied to your question, was it Kingsong? you're a brave man jumping on that wheel when it was doing that. I asked the representative of the King Song ( Here, I bought their ,my wheels ) http://www.wheel-experts.de/ ! Before that, I had already tried everything ! I tried too to calibrate the results, however, did not come . My jumping on that wheel when it was doing that was wanly one chances only and I tried it on the grass ! I finally jumped nonetheless onto wheel during movement and start the drive and It also solved the problem ( I waited as came just about to the upright position and then i went quickly on board and when the load on the engine, it also ended up swaying ) ! It worked well ! Before you entrust to give the wheel to my wife,I drove another kilometer in both directions . ( One observation : His wheel shows more voltage app and measuring the tester is less ! Therefore, also shows the long journey 100% battery and mainboard with an easy way to fool ! Wheel believes that the battery is too full , if i its wheel for long time to charge . ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Raptor said: My wheel which drives my wife, was a strange incident. One day, after charge the batteries and power on remained tilted himself forward and back continually! ... Now, I do not put too long charge the batteries and more it's not the problem occurred ! You should be a carefull with only not charging too long - the BMS of your battery does not have a chance to balance the individual cells anymore by this! Your "best solution" for this should be to readjust your charger to a lower max voltage, if it has trim potentionmeters like the charges described here: (and of course only if you know how to do it safely!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Chriull said: You should be a carefull with only not charging too long - the BMS of your battery does not have a chance to balance the individual cells anymore by this! Your "best solution" for this should be to readjust your charger to a lower max voltage, if it has trim potentionmeters like the charges described here: (and of course only if you know how to do it safely!) Thank you for your suggestion, of course ! In my case, the battery voltage is actually ok if measured by a separate battery for voltage tester . But wheel mainboard see batterys voltage higher than if reality ! For example : as voltage tester displays 66,2V but mainboard shows 67,2V (the charger voltage is actually ok. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Update. Wheel has been working well since this incident. I now try to unplug the charger when all 10 bars are lit, but before the charger light goes green. Overcharging, despite it being the supplied factory charger, seems to have been the problem. Can't assure secure deliver at holiday rental apartment, so holding off on Charge Doctor. But it's on the list. 180km and counting. Thanks again for all who helped me work this out. also. I believe the 2 by 2 light incremental rise of the power bar was because I had managed to enter 'level recalibrate ' mode. Because after that it became mostly level, but I wasn't holding it level at that time, because I didn't know it was calibrating. I do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flass Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 5 hours ago, Smoother said: Update. Wheel has been working well since this incident. I now try to unplug the charger when all 10 bars are lit, but before the charger light goes green. Overcharging, despite it being the supplied factory charger, seems to have been the problem. Can't assure secure deliver at holiday rental apartment, so holding off on Charge Doctor. But it's on the list. 180km and counting. Thanks again for all who helped me work this out. also. I believe the 2 by 2 light incremental rise of the power bar was because I had managed to enter 'level recalibrate ' mode. Because after that it became mostly level, but I wasn't holding it level at that time, because I didn't know it was calibrating. I do now. Congratulations! But as @Chriull pointed out above, to make sure your battery does not quickly decrease in available capacity, you will need to do a full charge once in a while to balance the cells. But perhaps this is a trade-off you may want to sacrifice to ensure this will not happen again. But at least you need to be aware of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_balancing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9Bot1 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I've been having some problems with a Ks14c. First there is a lot of play going front and back, almost as if your balancing on a ball before it goes forward and backward. I know they all have that a little but this one way more so (I have 3 KS14C's). Also when going 20-30 kph you can feel a constant back and forth rocking motion as if your going over lines in a sidewalk. Yesterday I was going about 20-25 kph and then was braking when all of a sudden I heard 4 beeps and the pedals started tilting back. I was almost stopped at that point so I hopped off and grabbed the wheel and it stayed in the tilted back position until I turned it off and back on again. When I turned it back on it didn't level correctly, it leveled about 90% and stayed tilted a little whichever way I was holding it (tilted front or back). Then today I take it out and was going 15-20kph and it beeped twice I slowed down a little and it stopped beeping. I rode about half a mile and noticed the area above the board is very hot. I don't remember it getting this hot that quickly. Now anytime I turn it on I have to make sure to hold the wheel level so it doesn't stay in the tilted position. Any ideas? I'm going to take it for a ride right now with the 9BMetrics app running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Sorry to hear that. Is this a new behaviour with and existing machine, or a new to you machine? Others report loose peddle supports at the axle connection. Could you have this problem? I can't help, but I do have another question that might allow others to help. How did you know the plastic above the board was hot? Did you feel it on your legs, on the back of your hand when you held the handle? Was it steaming? I have no idea how warm that part of my 14 gets, but I'll be sure to feel it now and then. good luck. And keep us posted. We might have to deal with this ourselves one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Smoother said: I can't help, but I do have another question that might allow others to help. How did you know the plastic above the board was hot? Did you feel it on your legs, on the back of your hand when you held the handle? Was it steaming? I have no idea how warm that part of my 14 gets, but I'll be sure to feel it now and then. I was going to reply:"You don't have to worry about that, you're in London". But then I remembered you are not! Why not simply have the app running and take a look at the temperature occasionally? BTW, the circuit board is horizontal across the top of the wheel with the metal heat sink is exposed to the wheel well so it is an inch or so below the top of the casing. If that casing is getting hot the circuit board is a lot hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 18 hours ago, Keith said: Why not simply have the app running and take a look at the temperature occasionally? Are you insane man!??!! I can't take my eyes off the road, I'll crash and burn. It takes total concentration for me to keep the rubber side down on this fiendish machine. Im even thinking of joining the Ludites, again. oh, you mean get off and look. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.? Actually, I wasn't asking for myself per se, just in general, and in case it helped someone else. besides, EUCs are BAD in England that's why they must be banned and chased back into the ocean from whence they came, it's the law. You don't break the law do you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 22 hours ago, 9Bot1 said: I've been having some problems with a Ks14c. First there is a lot of play going front and back, almost as if your balancing on a ball before it goes forward and backward. I know they all have that a little but this one way more so (I have 3 KS14C's). Also when going 20-30 kph you can feel a constant back and forth rocking motion as if your going over lines in a sidewalk. Yesterday I was going about 20-25 kph and then was braking when all of a sudden I heard 4 beeps and the pedals started tilting back. I was almost stopped at that point so I hopped off and grabbed the wheel and it stayed in the tilted back position until I turned it off and back on again. When I turned it back on it didn't level correctly, it leveled about 90% and stayed tilted a little whichever way I was holding it (tilted front or back). Then today I take it out and was going 15-20kph and it beeped twice I slowed down a little and it stopped beeping. I rode about half a mile and noticed the area above the board is very hot. I don't remember it getting this hot that quickly. Now anytime I turn it on I have to make sure to hold the wheel level so it doesn't stay in the tilted position. Any ideas? I'm going to take it for a ride right now with the 9BMetrics app running. I hear that the retaining bolts that mount the axle to the pedals can come loose on these KS14's. You might want to check if there's any play there and check to see if they need to be tightened up. @Cloud is the expert on these KS14's so maybe he can offer some suggestions. If he's still alive. I haven't seen him around since he got his MSuper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I hear that the retaining bolts that mount the axle to the pedals can come loose on these KS14's. You might want to check if there's any play there and check to see if they need to be tightened up. @Cloud is the expert on these KS14's so maybe he can offer some suggestions. If he's still alive. I haven't seen him around since he got his MSuper. On 18 ноября 2016 г. at 2:46 PM, 9Bot1 said: I've been having some problems with a Ks14c. First there is a lot of play going front and back, almost as if your balancing on a ball before it goes forward and backward. I know they all have that a little but this one way more so (I have 3 KS14C's). Also when going 20-30 kph you can feel a constant back and forth rocking motion as if your going over lines in a sidewalk. Yesterday I was going about 20-25 kph and then was braking when all of a sudden I heard 4 beeps and the pedals started tilting back. I was almost stopped at that point so I hopped off and grabbed the wheel and it stayed in the tilted back position until I turned it off and back on again. When I turned it back on it didn't level correctly, it leveled about 90% and stayed tilted a little whichever way I was holding it (tilted front or back). Then today I take it out and was going 15-20kph and it beeped twice I slowed down a little and it stopped beeping. I rode about half a mile and noticed the area above the board is very hot. I don't remember it getting this hot that quickly. Now anytime I turn it on I have to make sure to hold the wheel level so it doesn't stay in the tilted position. Any ideas? I'm going to take it for a ride right now with the 9BMetrics app running. @9Bot1 1. About the play. Yes all ks14c have a certain seemingly different amiunt if play as you hold it by the handle and try to rock back or forth. I wouldnt be worried about it unless its really in the way of your riding. How big is the horizontal displacement of the play? i dont be,ieve its the retaining bolts holding the pedal pillars on thr axle. Yes those get loose over time but that doesnt normally cause the play - it causes the pillars to start scraping on the motor covers. Its very easy to test if these bolts are loose. Turn the wheel upside down and apply pressure on the pedals up and towards the center of the wheel and see if you can make the distance between the pillar and the motor cover smaller. If you can then the boltd are loose on that side. 2. About "waves" when riding at higher speeds. The play has nothing to do with it, you need to examine your rim and tire, look at yhe gap between the tire and the casing and roll the tire. Does the gap change as you roll it? Not the rim, look at it carefully while rolling the wheel. Is the rim bent a bit in one or more spots? I assume the vibrations you experienced are in the plane of the wheel. If they are not and the wheel is shaking from side to side, there is other reasons that can cause it. 3. About your beeps. What probably happened is the wheel overheated. Now in your case when the wheel beeped briefly, it just reached 70 degress, but it barely reached it and immediately went slightly down. The wheel beeped and tilted a bit but since the temperature went immediately down, it stopped beeping and tilting. This is fine, should be nothing to worry about. Next time it happens try to note the temperature and see if its close to 70 celsius @Hunka Hunka Burning Love I have an uodate for your files. I got into a minor accident a few days ago - a bicycle rider crashed into me and hit my chest and messed my knee. The chest is doing better but the knee got messed up and i couldnt walk for a few days. Its better now and im waiting for MRI results to see if the tendons are intact or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Oh no... yikes what happened? Was it while riding past a blind corner? Are you feeling okay? It's not the knee that was swollen before was it? Were you wearing your pads? Was the other person okay? I'm gonna have to upgrade my storage file hard drive if this keeps up. Your medical file itself is becoming many pages long! Stop getting injured! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9Bot1 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 On 18 ноября 2016 г. at 3:10 PM, Smoother said: Sorry to hear that. Is this a new behaviour with and existing machine, or a new to you machine? Others report loose peddle supports at the axle connection. Could you have this problem? I can't help, but I do have another question that might allow others to help. How did you know the plastic above the board was hot? Did you feel it on your legs, on the back of your hand when you held the handle? Was it steaming? I have no idea how warm that part of my 14 gets, but I'll be sure to feel it now and then. good luck. And keep us posted. We might have to deal with this ourselves one day. It's a problem with a new wheel. It was warm to the touch. On 19 ноября 2016 г. at 1:38 PM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I hear that the retaining bolts that mount the axle to the pedals can come loose on these KS14's. You might want to check if there's any play there and check to see if they need to be tightened up. @Cloud is the expert on these KS14's so maybe he can offer some suggestions. If he's still alive. I haven't seen him around since he got his MSuper. I'll try looking at that part. Is normal operating temp from 37 to 53 degrees Celsius? Just saw saw your response @Cloud. Will go through that checklist now, thank you. Hope you feel better soon. I keep reading about knee injuries, maybe we should be riding with braces instead of pads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 On my ride with my Ninebot, I've only had it up to a maximum of 47 C, but it could be the ambient temperature of where I'm riding that is affecting the averages. I think I only rode outside in 18-20 C temperatures with mild to one moderate hill climb, but I did go about 20-21 kms I think? I weight 168 pounds (added an extra one since I ate some poutine yesterday). Maybe @noisycarlos or @SuperSport or someone else can confirm some other temperature ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 @Hunka Hunka Burning Love Please update your signature to Honorary Grand Marshall of the EUC Virtual Universe! Congrats on 2000 Reps!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Cloud said: I have an uodate for your files. I got into a minor accident a few days ago - a bicycle rider crashed into me and hit my chest and messed my knee. The chest is doing better but the knee got messed up and i couldnt walk for a few days. Its better now and im waiting for MRI results to see if the tendons are intact or not. I just heard about your accident! Sorry! Hope your MRI results come back negative! Unfortunately our knees were never constructed properly to sustain major impacts! Best wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noisycarlos Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 7 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: On my ride with my Ninebot, I've only had it up to a maximum of 47 C, but it could be the ambient temperature of where I'm riding that is affecting the averages. I think I only rode outside in 18-20 C temperatures with mild to one moderate hill climb, but I did go about 20-21 kms I think? I weight 168 pounds (added an extra one since I ate some poutine yesterday). Maybe @noisycarlos or @SuperSport or someone else can confirm some other temperature ranges. Not sure about averages, but I've gotten the overheat alarm twice, on hot LA days with steep hills. it comes around 140 F / 60 C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 0:38 PM, Smoother said: on the few occasions I managed a successful 180* I felt that the foot rests were leaning forward during the turn, making me thing the power was low or something, but there was always power to pull away My IPS 121 and 191 (Lhotz) both tilt forward when turning sharply. I did not like this at first, but now I am used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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