Smaller wheels - will they ever make a comeback?

[yoos]

29 minutes ago, techyiam said:

"Best selling sorting option is a marketing gimmick" has never been proven to be true.

Indeed, that's why I said "for all we know" .

I welcome the enthusiasm with which North America embraces the heavy and fast EUC. Yet I still await revised models in the portable urban commuter niche. While larger wheels are a great fit for suburbia or cities like NYC where you mingle with cars, many European cities with heavy bicycle traffic and sedated car traffic are better served with lighter models.

[Funky]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

"Best selling sorting option is a marketing gimmick" has never been proven to be true.

EVEES have said publically that they have culled back models that don't sell well. EEVEES used to carry many models. The demo wheels are probably still at their shop.

And this certainly sounds reasonable.

Alienrides carry more models too before.

Revrides owner recently said in a Facebook post that Begode wheels are among the best sellers in California. 

I noticed Begode wheels don't sell that well at EEVEES.

eWheels sells plenty of wheels. But on their website, they don't have the "best seller sorting" feature. 

But based on online chatter, people are buying big wheels. And I don't see any small wheels in the wild around here. The only exception is the mten3. I have seen a family riding electric wheels with their preschooler on a mten3.

Personally, I come to realize that my Abrams is more to my liking, even to just ride around my neighborhood, or for commuting than my V12. (I don't really ride my T3 anymore.) That was a complete surprise to me, since I am not big, nor heavy.

After added four capacitors to the controller, the Abrams is very responsive. It doesn't take much additional effort than my V12 to accelerate or brake. There is the additional inertia and gyro, but with the right technique, it is agile at speed too. And I am only using the stock pads. The Abrams weighs 97 lbs. At the time of review, Denis Hagov said that the Abrams has the heaviest motor.

LeaperKim did their homework. Knowing that the Abrams uses a 22" wheel, they made the wheel taller and placed the power pads at the top for maximum leverage. They also placed a lift handle at the front so it can be used to assist braking. I don't need to pull back on the handle, I just use it to keep me in balance when I brake.

The Abrams feels more premium, and refined than my V12. The motor is quieter and smoother. The Abrams tracks better and feels more planted. But it rides very similarly to my V12. In contrast, the 50 lbs. T3 feels like a toy. Don't get me wrong, I really like my V12, but I can't deny how good the Abrams is, to me.

Bradley at EEVEES said he still likes the Abrams in their Sherman-S teardown video. Kevin at e-rides owns an Abrams, and he thinks highly of the Abrams. Madpack gave a glowing review on the Abrams and rank it and his V12 as his favorite wheels. 

These riders are not particularly big, Madpack not particularly big nor heavy. Yet they like this heavy wheel.

For me, owning the Abrams was an eye opener.

(If we can borrow from the automotive world, my T3 is like a Chevrolet Cavalier, my V12 is like the Mini Cooper S, and my Abrams is like an Audi S4. The S4 may be a heavy car, but it has moves, and is fun to drive, but feels premium and refined.)  🙂

Let's be real,  if you look at forum - everyone owns a big/heavy wheel.  Same time they own 2 smaller ones.. Or another big one.

For long distance cruising - nothing can beat big wheel. But people who buy only one euc - they will go middle ground. Euc which can do most thing the owner needs. (Being light enough and have enough speed.)

There are many rider who own only one euc and are happy. Most times it's something on smaller size. Because most people who have big euc have ridden/owned smaller ones before. I myself also would have gotten Sherman Max or something like that. But in reality i simply didn't need that speed and range. Otherwise i would have gotten it.

(Good example for people, who aren't in forums talking.) > My dad he owns ks16s and he doesn't plan upgrading to "bigger" one. Simply because he doesn't need bigger one. We are sidewalk "crawlers" happily going 30-40km/h. And i bet there are many more like we out there.

If i would ride with cars, ofc only thing to look at would be big/heavy wheels. Because you would need the speed. Luckily we don't need that. But same time it's kinda sad - because we aren't getting any new wheels in 45-60lbs range. -Which i think is the perfect weight/speed range.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

If i would ride with cars, ofc only thing to look at would be big/heavy wheels. Because you would need the speed. Luckily we don't need that. But same time it's kinda sad - because we aren't getting any new wheels in 45-60lbs range. -Which i think is the perfect weight/speed range.

That was what I thought too prior to owning the Abrams.

What I realized now us that, for my use case, if I can only keep one wheel, I would pick my Abrams over my V12, and definitely over my T3. Of course, there is no lifting involved.

My use case involves riding mostly along bike routes. My original plan was to get a big heavy wheel because I want to branch out to ride on the main roads. But now, I still prefer riding my Abrams over my V12 even along bike routes. My V12 can certainly do that well. But my Abrams is so much more pleasant to ride. Just like my V12 is so much more pleasant to ride than my T3.

Oh, I don't do any technical riding in general, nor offroad riding.

There is no substitute for experience. 

Since you don't live on the ground floor, and you basically use the wheel as a last mile device, I don't see why you want a heavy wheel. So ignorance is bliss.

Edited December 29, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

42 minutes ago, yoos said:

many European cities with heavy bicycle traffic and sedated car traffic are better served with lighter models.

I have never ridden in those environments so on the surface, I don't disagree. 

But I do know the difference between my V12 and the T3, and for me, there is no way I would choose the T3 over my V12, unless I have to lift the wheel over a great distance. 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

I have never ridden in those environments so on the surface, I don't disagree. 

But I do know the difference between my V12 and the T3, and for me, there is no way I would choose the T3 over my V12, unless I have to lift the wheel over a great distance. 

Same in my country. I have only seen ks14d, ks16s, tesla v2/3 and wheels like that. Mainly because we don't ride with cars here and our cities are very small. My city alone you need ~5km range to ride from one side to other. Add another 5-15 km if you wanna go out of city on gravel/dirt roads. Technically you can ride about ~70km and you will have ridden almost all paths/roads. Without going on highway.

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Since you don't live on the ground floor, and you basically use the wheel as a last mile device, I don't see why you want a heavy wheel. So ignorance is bliss.

More power/speed is always great. I would love to ride 40mph on sidewalks.  (Was meant as a joke, but sometimes out of city we got empty long straight smooth sidewalks - so i have no doubt, i would be riding that speed.)

Yeah i would never buy big wheel - even i know they are better.. I simply have no need for it. (And most people in my country would say the same.) - Simply for the fact we don't ride with cars here and cities being small.

Nothing beats riding small wheel right into store.  And then hopping off and trolley it around. Noone beats an eye. On big wheel story may differ. Same going on train/bus.

(In case if you think - with big euc i could skip train/bus and ride to end destination. We have only railway/highway connecting our cities.) I don't wanna ride ~60 mph for 25 miles everyday. Naturally small/light is the way to go - for my use case.

Also riding slower - you can skip on gear.. I like to go for ~13mph slow rides often. Only wearing wristguards. (Most my job rides are like that.)

I would love to have ~55lbs wheels, which can go 35mph. As for range - don't really care about it. Anything with 1000Wh is enough for me.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

24 minutes ago, Funky said:

I would love to have ~55lbs wheels, which can go 35mph. As for range - don't really care about it. Anything with 1000Wh is enough for me.

I am not sure how you are going to find a better wheel than your 18XL for your use case.

Any changes would increase costs, make it potentially less reliable, and increase weight. I don't see it.

Edited December 29, 2022 by techyiam

[Funky]

38 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I am not sure how you are going to find a better wheel than your 18XL for your use case.

Any changes would increase costs, make it potentially less reliable, and increase weight. I don't see it.

Yeah - in my eyes there's nothing in mind that comes close to 18xl. (I bought perfect wheel, for my use case..)

Any changes and new wheels would be greatly welcomed. Any new wheel is welcomed in any weight/speed. Because more options to choose from is always great. I would argue that any manufacturer can build same type of euc for same amount of weight, with little bit of improvements. - They simply don't wanna. (Mostly because big wheels = bigger profit. Big or Small, each wheel takes same amount of time to build.)

I'm simply still waiting for that "better" wheel to be made. Which can be an upgrade over my 18xl. Till this time and day - nothing have been made.

Light/small market is simply forgotten. Same for middle tier  - which i would place my 18xl. (One can only hope these new "small" wheels from Leaperkim, Inmotion, Kingsong that are rumored, will be lighter than 60lbs.. Same time actually any good.)

Edited December 29, 2022 by Funky

[KiwiMark]

8 hours ago, Funky said:

Stuart comes to mind then.  

Walker Bulldog.

Heck even Pershing, Wolverine, Jackson - there's many names.

There are many names, but you haven't provided one as good as the Veteran Hellcat.  If they call it the Hellcat then I might have to sell the V12HT (that I haven't even received yet) and buy it.  If they call it anything else then I'll probably stick with the V12HT for now.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

There are many names, but you haven't provided one as good as the Veteran Hellcat.  If they call it the Hellcat then I might have to sell the V12HT (that I haven't even received yet) and buy it.  If they call it anything else then I'll probably stick with the V12HT for now.

 Just for name? I could give two ducks what it's called. Because name is just a name. Hell if it's even called Princess Sparkles. And is actually good wheel - i would not think twice, just because of name. Or are you one of those, who buy things just because of name..

Veteran Bulldog makes more sense naming wise. But i won't go there, because i don't care what's it's called.

Dog lovers vs Cat lovers - FIGHT!  

 

Off-topic: If we are talking about game. I personally like Super Hellcat better. Same thing as Hellcat, but with little bit better stats - Haven't played it much doh.. Because i got better lightweight snipers.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Funky

[KiwiMark]

13 minutes ago, Funky said:

 Just for name? I could give two ducks what it's called. Because name is just a name. Hell if it's even called Princess Sparkles. And is actually good wheel - i would not think twice, just because of name. Or are you one of those, who buy things just because of name..

 

If we are talking about game. I personally like Super Hellcat better. Same thing as Hellcat, but with little bit better stats - Haven't played it much doh.. Because i got better lightweight snipers.

TBH I'd mainly consider buying the wheel if it was not too heavy and had Sherman S type suspension, that would really rock!  Having a cool name would only be the cherry on top.

In WoT the Hellcat WAS way better than the Super Hellcat, I'm talking about when it was first introduced into the game and was OP as hell.  I earned the Ace Tanker badge in the first few battles and had over 65% win rate, even now I still have over 60% win rate in that tank.

[Paul A]

29 minutes ago, Funky said:

name is just a name

 

Ford Pinto was a sub compact (small) car.

Begode naming a new small wheel 'Pinto' might be......a good idea?  

[Funky]

40 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

TBH I'd mainly consider buying the wheel if it was not too heavy and had Sherman S type suspension, that would really rock!  Having a cool name would only be the cherry on top.

In WoT the Hellcat WAS way better than the Super Hellcat, I'm talking about when it was first introduced into the game and was OP as hell.  I earned the Ace Tanker badge in the first few battles and had over 65% win rate, even now I still have over 60% win rate in that tank.

Exactly same suspension - i don't know if it's possible. It should be "smaller" on smaller device. Even if they put the same suspension on smaller wheel - i hole they fix the big oversight of not having the middle arch/bridge. And don't put those awful pedals..

Off-topic: Yeah playing in good tanks isn't hard. Have been mentioned/shown in WoT masterclass showcases. It isn't hard to seal club lower tiers.

23 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 

Ford Pinto was a sub compact (small) car.

Begode naming a new small wheel 'Pinto' might be......a good idea?  

Aside from "copyrights" (If any..) couldn't care less. Go pint (Aww shucks it's already used.)  Add that "O" And everything will be fine.  Better 2 "OO" Pintoo.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Funky

[litewave]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

 

Ford Pinto was a sub compact (small) car.

Begode naming a new small wheel 'Pinto' might be......a good idea?  

Uhh, NO., NO, NO.

The Pinto was notorious for bursting into flames and an overall inferior car compared to the Japanese subcompacts of the time. The back seat was claustrophobic and scary. The rear bumper was a joke. The Pinto wagon was somewhat safer but the Pinto name needs to stay dead and buried. Good riddance.

[Funky]

1 minute ago, litewave said:

Uhh, NO., NO, NO.

The Pinto was notorious for bursting into flames and an overall inferior car compared to the Japanese subcompacts of the time. The back seat was claustrophobic and scary. The rear bumper was a joke. The Pinto wagon was somewhat safer but the Pinto name needs to stay dead and buried. Good riddance.

Huh.. Reminds me something now. Can't really put my finger on what.

[Paul A]

41 minutes ago, Funky said:

copyrights

 

Pinto was a very famous car.

Ford probably need not worry about others wanting to use the name. 

 

 

[litewave]

I don't recall any reports of Veteran wheels bursting into flame, so the Pinto reference must be a jab at Begode. 

I abstained from buying Begode wheels such as the Nikola AR due to the fire risk. However, once eWheels began replacing Begode packs with Litech, I finally took the plunge.

I have to say that the MCM is by far my favorite wheel for short trips. It is an exhilarating little rocket and a blast to dance on. The shell is somewhat homely and its plastic is crap, but dang that drivetrain is zippy.

I'm really sad eWheels sold out before I could buy a second one. Even worse, Begode apparently considers the T4 to be its replacement, and there are no rumors of an MCM6 on the horizon.

I hope this changes soon. Begode is ignoring an important opportunity and definitely has the chops to make an awesome-performing wheel. Now, if they could just hire a talented design engineer to create a sleek, sexy design for a new MCM I think it would easily sell better than the competition.

[Funky]

21 minutes ago, litewave said:

I hope this changes soon. Begode is ignoring an important opportunity and definitely has the chops to make an awesome-performing wheel. Now, if they could just hire a talented design engineer to create a sleek, sexy design for a new MCM I think it would easily sell better than the competition.

It's not just Begode - every manufacturer are more or less "ignoring" that opportunity. Something smaller and lighter, with updated design, better build quality.

They don't need to think even. Take any big wheel and make it 2x times smaller. I would love to see Sherman"MiNi" . Everything big one has, but made simply smaller. They literally could cut everything in half.

By this time i could bet they can make 10-15% better performing wheels. In same weight class of older wheels. (Ofc if they don't add suspension - which case it's ~3kg extra weight.)

Edited December 30, 2022 by Funky

[meepmeepmayer]

This has been split off on request:

[rcgldr]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:10 PM, Paul A said:

Pinto was a very famous car.

Scene from the movie Top Secret:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Qj58o87sY

 

[mrelwood]

Usage data from EUC World on the year 2022. Which wheels are the most used ones? What is the actual average of people’s maximum riding speeds? And a few more:

https://euc.world/blog/worlds-30-top-wheels-of-2022/

[Funky]

Top ten only 2 monster wheels.  

Not surprised seeing sherman there. It's well loved wheel by community..

 

Most of those wheels are "smaller" ones.. Just shows - only people who talk on forum, and are "real hobbyists" are enjoying big extreme wheels. Real world prefers smaller ones. (65lbs and under. <3)

Edited February 11, 2023 by Funky

[yoos]

15 hours ago, Funky said:

Real world prefers smaller ones. (65lbs and under. <3)

I think the effect is even stronger than EUC.Worlds suggests: the shorter the ride and the less of an enthusiast the rider the less chances that he has EUC.World and will record the ride. Plenty of V8 riders who don't bother with apps much, I suspect. Especially if you are just going to the store, you won't bother to record that 2 km trip unless you are very interested in data, EUCs etc.

I'd say the S18/V11 are in a sweet spot: widely popular and useful to the general public while still relevant to knowledgeable experienced riders who are usually the ones who use EUC.world. 

[Cerbera]

11 minutes ago, yoos said:

Especially if you are just going to the store, you won't bother to record that 2 km trip unless you are very interested in data, EUCs etc.

Maybe I am an exception but I record every trip I make in EUCW and generally remember to review the data when I get back, where I can diligently watch out for unusual events and spikes and whatnot, and track my speeds over time, both out of general interest, and for my defence should I have to prove I am riding considerately / safely...

If anything, that has become more important with a bigger wheel, where it's quite easy to be going faster you think, so I like to check...

[Unipilot69]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:03 PM, Paul A said:

Begode naming a new small wheel 'Pinto' might be......a good idea?  

Well Begode wheels do catch fire as well. Two birds of a feather stick together.

[yoos]

10 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Maybe I am an exception but I record every trip

So do I, except if it's literally a sub 1 min drive perhaps.

Active people on the forum, however are much more interested and invested than the general ridership so I am still quite certain EUCworld has a bigger share on the forums than in general. I also get the feeling that many people avoid third-party apps to interact with anything valuable unless they really know what they are doing and know what they want.

Edited February 12, 2023 by yoos
half a sentence was missing