Smaller wheels - will they ever make a comeback?

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Speciality shops sell speciality wheels. I would think that most of the V8F style wheels are sold elsewhere.

Bradley may disagree with you calling EEVEES a specialty shop.

You do realize EEVEES only started to cut back on the models that they carry not that long ago. Bradley and Lukas said they were not going to carry models that don't sell well, nor new models that they don't think are going to sell well any longer.

Can you name distributors that sell more wheels than EEVEES this past year in Canada?

Which distributors would not considered to be a specialty shop to you in Canada?

Also name distributors in Europe that sold more wheels than EEVEES. 

[Funky]

28 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Bradley may disagree with you calling EEVEES a specialty shop.

You do realize EEVEES only started to cut back on the models that they carry not that long ago. Bradley and Lukas said they were not going to carry models that don't sell well, nor new models that they don't think are going to sell well any longer.

Can you name distributors that sell more wheels than EEVEES this past year in Canada?

Which distributors would not considered to be a specialty shop to you in Canada?

Also name distributors in Europe that sold more wheels than EEVEES. 

How many they sold? Where do people get the "numbers" anyways? And stronger question - Do people trust those numbers?

I don't really believe "numbers" that some website, or something shows. Because anything can be altered online, to simply SHOW more numbers than it actually is.. 

>>> Ohh wow they sold 1000 wheels in 1 months. That's amazing. -But reality they sold maybe 100.

Best seller - worst seller. Vice versa.

 

I believe what i personally see in REAL WORLD. In my case i see only small wheels in mine country. Doh in USA, etc.. Where they got big cities and such, i see them having much, much more big/heavy wheels. 

 

In my local store we got ~24 different wheels for sale on place. (Most are smaller wheels. Which we like in my country - simply because we don't ride with cars.) Walk in and buy any.  +Many available "special" orders, if someone wants something bigger/faster.

 

Every country/city has their own riding habits... Some like to ride on street with cars, going fast as possible and as far as they can. Others like riding slower, on sidewalks and they don't need to go fast/far.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

Maybe there is a pattern....

 

European car.

 

 

 

North American car.

 

 

[techyiam]

@Funky

The reason this thread got started is because in the past couple of years, there appear to be a sea of bigger, heavier, faster new wheels released, versus a drop for the smaller wheels. 

It wouldn't matter if all you see are Mten3/4 in your town. What counts is whether there is going to be a high enough global demand to justify making a new model.

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe there is a pattern....

 

European car.

 

 

 

North American car.

 

 

Big ducks and small ducks. Needs to compensate somehow.. Dam almost all EUC riders have small pee pee. 

[Funky]

13 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@Funky

The reason this thread got started is because in the past couple of years, there appear to be a sea of bigger, heavier, faster new wheels released, versus a drop for the smaller wheels. 

It wouldn't matter if all you see are Mten3/4 in your town. What counts is whether there is going to be a high enough global demand to justify making a new model.

So..?  We will get same old, same old heavy wheels. That almost everyone is a copy of other? Nothing "new" released in how many years.  < That's boring.

Gotway alone popped out how many models? Can someone remind me? Global demand be drained down the drain. It's simply more profitable to sell big wheels.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Funky

[Saboteur_ZA]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

I believe what i personally see in REAL WORLD. In my case i see only small wheels in mine country. Doh in USA, etc.. Where they got big cities and such, i see them having much, much more big/heavy wheels. 

 

In my local store we got ~24 different wheels for sale on place. (Most are smaller wheels. Which we like in my country - simply because we don't ride with cars.) Walk in and buy any.  +Many available "special" orders, if someone wants something bigger/faster.

I'm based in Toronto. I chose Smartwheels for my first wheel because they're local and have the largest range by far (about 40 to choose from!). Even had a small selection of used wheels. Bought a used KS14M in practically new condition from them as my first wheel. Granted, only put about 50km on it before wanting to upgrade, but I can guarantee I would not be riding today if I didn't have that easy entry to this. I traded the KS14M in with them, for a new KS16X. And was a bit intimidated even going from the 14M to the 16X... hey, we are all different in our approach. But I'm ready for something a bit more now. Only problem is nothing really fits the bill, don't want something much heavier than the 16X, but want more speed... and yes, suspension. But anyway, all been said before. My point is, it is all very well for retailers to only want to sell big wheels that they think users want. But what about attracting new entrants to this? Bit short-sighted to only focus on experienced riders. And your first wheel is the gateway to many more... If they really want this sport to grow, as everyone says, then there needs to be something for new/less experienced riders as well. I'm sure the manufacturers must recognize that themselves too.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

And was a bit intimidated even going from the 14M to the 16X... hey, we are all different in our approach. But I'm ready for something a bit more now. Only problem is nothing really fits the bill, don't want something much heavier than the 16X, but want more speed... and yes, suspension.

The 16X weighs about 52 lbs. The top speed is about 50 km/h.

The Inmotion V11 has suspension but weighs about 60 lbs. The top speed is about 55 km/h.

The next heavier suspension wheel weighs 67 lbs. and has a top speed of 60 km/h. This is the Begode T4.

I share the opinion that the the 16X is a good wheel. Many have said good things about it. You got the right wheel. However you may want to spend more time on it to further develop your skill and comfort level with it.

Once you are ready to move on to a faster wheel, you won't feel intimidated by the heavier wheels.

 

For myself, I started on a Begode T3. Then I move to a V12. This move felt like a big step for me. Then I stayed with the V12 for about a year.

The T3 weighs about 50 lbs. and has a top of about 46 km/h. Beeps and tilt back starts at about 46 km/h. 

The V12 weighs about 64 lbs and has a top speed of about 70 km/h. Weight differs only about 14 lbs.

At the time when I was buying the V12, I also hopped on an Abrams. At the time, the Abrams felt like a really big step to make.

I just bought an Abrams, now it doesn't feel that much more difficult to ride than the V12. Sure, I will need time to adapt, but it doesn't feel that big of a deal.

The Abrams weighs about 97 lbs. That is about 47 lbs. over the T3. Basically, doubling in weight.

Edited December 6, 2022 by techyiam

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, techyiam said:

At the time when I was buying the V12, I also hopped on an Abrams. At the time, the Abrams felt like a really big step to make.

I just bought an Abrams, now it doesn't feel that much more difficult to ride than the V12. Sure, I will need time to adapt, but it doesn't feel that big of a deal.

The Abrams weighs about 97 lbs. That is about 47 lbs. over the T3. Basically, doubling in weight.

I started to ride on ks16s (If you can call it "riding" - learning to step on/off and riding for about ~4 hours.) When i knew i could ride, i bought mine ks18xl. I felt zero difference right from first ride. But i bet it's because weight difference of those wheels are so small.. And my weight being 2x of normal human being, might made zero difference also.

Only thing i noticed was - you need to lean in, if you wanted to start going fast from 0-30. On ks16s you put little weight forwards and it went flying.

I personally am a guy who would buy Sherman Max as his first wheel.  (If i needed it..) No learner wheel and such. Don't like wasting money. (ks16s wasn't mine.)

 

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I started to ride on ks16s (If you can call it "riding" - learning to step on/off and riding for about ~4 hours.) When i knew i could ride, i bought mine ks18xl. I felt zero difference right from first ride. But i bet it's because weight difference of those wheels are so small.. And my weight being 2x of normal human being, might made zero difference also.

You're probably right.

For me, another factor would be the gyro on the V12. The T3 has no gyro. Soooooo, when I first took my first turn on my V12, I go WTF, it doesn't lean nor turn. That was a surprise. 

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Only thing i noticed was - you need to lean in, if you wanted to start going fast from 0-30. On ks16s you put little weight forwards and it went flying.

Another gotcha for me was when I first tried to accelerate on the Abrams. I leaned until I would almost fall off, and even stand on my toes, and it still wouldn't accelerate. Braking was similar. It wasn't until I switched to soft mode before there was something. I am too light for the Abrams. Of course, after adding power pads, things improved.

My T3 requires the least effort to accelerate. But only from rest. I found that once I have acclimatized to a heavier wheel, I don't really noticed the extra effort. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by techyiam

[Saboteur_ZA]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

However you may want to spend more time on it to further develop your skill and comfort level with it.

Once you are ready to move on to a faster wheel, you won't feel intimidated by the heavier wheels.

Yes, very good point. I'm sure having only 50km riding experience is why it seemed such a big deal moving up to the 16X. I do have my eye on the T4. But content to wait until all early batch issues resolved. By which time I expect I will have gained more experience and confidence. Just a pity it is Winter here now, limited opportunities to ride!

[Tawpie]

56 minutes ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

By which time I expect I will have gained more experience and confidence.

and around that time BG will be onto delivering the first batches of the T5. Plus some X and Pro models of the T4 and the T4 basic will be end of life.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Tawpie

[mrelwood]

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

You do realize EEVEES only started to cut back on the models that they carry not that long ago.

No, I don’t. I haven’t followed the number of models a shop sells at the other side of the world.

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

Can you name distributors that sell more wheels than EEVEES this past year in Canada?

That’s not what I was talking about. No matter how many wheels they sell, they are a speciality shop that ordinary janes and joes who know nothing about EUCs are most probably not familiar with. Seems that EBay and Amazon may sell more small wheels than Eevee’s for that very reason.

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

Which distributors would not considered to be a specialty shop to you in Canada?

Dude.

Like I said, EBay and Amazon are amongst the ones that beginners probably use the most. Other than that, I have no idea of what shops exist in Canada in the first place. Can you name the top three EUC sellers in Finland? Or even the top three grocery store chains?

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

Also name distributors in Europe that sold more wheels than EEVEES. 

I don’t know the sales numbers of a single shop, of any type, anywhere in the world. Do you?

[DavidB]

Funky, T4 is 32kg. Not much less than a Master. From memory the Tesla 2 was 19kg and the T3 was 22, about the same as a KS18L. So not even a mid weight wheel (20-30kg). Monocat as a female beginner found going from 19 to 22 a significant negative. Smaller or less physical riders no doubt would feel the same.

TST, I think we would all be happy if Ninebot reentered with an updated small wheel. For sure it would be a step up in quality over what the rest offer. But I think they are happy making 100s of thousands of scooters, Edit: Sorry millions, per year.

Funky, I'm sure LeaperKim may be reluctant to branch out from their Sherman range after the Abrams debacle but I also hope they make something smaller. Personally I'd like something Hero size. I don't need 3600 of battery. Half that would shave 8kg off straight away. Less batteries = smaller side panels. Ecodrift weighed the Sherman S at 5kg/pair. So you could shave another 1-1.5kg there. With lighter wheel the bumpers could be smaller. Also I don't ride at night so removing the lights I reckon I could get such a suspension wheel under 30kg. Now that would be nice.

[KiwiMark]

6 hours ago, DavidB said:

Funky, T4 is 32kg. Not much less than a Master. From memory 

From sellers I'm seeing 30.4kg listed for the weight of the T4, 36kg listed for the Master.  You would definitely feel a difference between the 2 of those.

[Funky]

12 hours ago, DavidB said:

Funky, T4 is 32kg. Not much less than a Master. From memory the Tesla 2 was 19kg and the T3 was 22, about the same as a KS18L. So not even a mid weight wheel (20-30kg). Monocat as a female beginner found going from 19 to 22 a significant negative. Smaller or less physical riders no doubt would feel the same.

I said mid wheel 20-30. (Almost already in heavy class.) T4 sitting right on the line. I personally would call it still middle wheel. (Even doh it goes little bit over. Mostly because there isn't anything lighter "new" made..)

Adding suspension to KS18XL or KS16X weight would be around the same.

6 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

From sellers I'm seeing 30.4kg listed for the weight of the T4, 36kg listed for the Master.  You would definitely feel a difference between the 2 of those.

Maybe real world weight? Who knows. One can change tire to real M/C tire and then it would be 30kg++. (Another heavy shit wheel.)

Edited December 7, 2022 by Funky

[DavidB]

Denis Hagov measured his T4 at 30.75 and mentioned Begode claimed 32kg. Probably had Master footplates and a nobby tire when Begode printed the specs but then they shipped them with lighter/cheaper pedals and a thinner tread street tire.

Edited December 7, 2022 by DavidB

[techyiam]

In "AskBobEverything" Episode 3, the CEO of Inmotion confirmed that they are currently looking into designing a lighter, smaller suspension electric wheel.

https://fb.watch/hkb9XXqOiv/

Edited December 10, 2022 by techyiam

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

20 minutes ago, techyiam said:

In "AskBobEverything" Episode 3, the CEOof Inmotion confirmed that they are currently looking into designing a lighter, smaller suspension electric wheel.

https://fb.watch/hkb9XXqOiv/

There is a questionnaire related to it on the forum somewhere. I think its more likely to be a mid weight 20+ kg wheel

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, LowFlyingSquirrel said:

I think its more likely to be a mid weight 20+ kg wheel

I think they can still be swayed, depending on feedback from the survey.

Edited December 10, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

In which world, would Sherman-S preorders selli better than T4's, and behind that is the Abrams, followed by the 18XL.

What, Abrams is selling better than 18XL's.

Apparently, it is happening right now at EEVEES. 

Now that the Master Pro is in stock again at Alienrides, the Master Pro is out selling the Monster Pro, which is currently on sale even.

I just don't see the data that suggest the manufacturers got it all wrong coming out with so many big heavy fast new wheels. 

[mrelwood]

39 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I just don't see the data that suggest the manufacturers got it all wrong coming out with so many big heavy fast new wheels. 

KS has one big heavy fast wheel. Inmotion is just coming up with their first. Only GotWay employees, past and present, have made several such wheels.

39 minutes ago, techyiam said:

at EEVEES

You aren’t looking wide enough. EUC  shops are speciality shops that sell mostly for enthusiasts. Of course they sell more advanced wheels.

 Where do people buy their first wheels? People who don’t know about this forum, Facebook groups or other enthusiast portals.

 Do you think Amazon and eBay sell mostly big fast heavy wheels?

Edited December 11, 2022 by mrelwood

[mrelwood]

Top sellers at Amazon in the “Unicycles” category:

 

The next EUC on the list is a 9bot One A1 at #15. Then Z10 at #34, Airwheel X3 at #37, and another V11 at #51.

 Where are the big heavy fast wheels that sell so well??

[pHghost]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Where are the big heavy fast wheels that sell so well??

Well, as you can see, the number #1 spot on Amazon is a 20" wheel, whereas the 16" is second, so bigger size for the win! 

Edited December 11, 2022 by pHghost

[MadVlad]

I think there really only two possible evolution tracks of the small EUC: the first one is an actual lightweight suspension wheel. Something like an improved S18. The other evolution would be a small wheel that is easy to work on, modular construction that makes it easy to change tires, replace components etc. If one could combine both into the same wheel...